Three 3rd graders, three adults killed by shooter at Nashville elementary school

[Mikey 16,714]

17 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

In THIS case.  The issue is, not all mass shooters are so logical.  Some don't care if they die and in fact hope to kill as many as they can and then die so they don't have to face the victims' family or other consequences.  They WANT to go out in a blaze of infamy.

 

All the more reason to have armed people on-site at all times. It's possible that had that janitor in Nashville been armed and trained he could have stopped this incident before a single student or teacher was hurt.

[TexasTiger 13,004]

3 minutes ago, Mikey said:

All the more reason to have armed people on-site at all times. It's possible that had that janitor in Nashville been armed and trained he could have stopped this incident before a single student or teacher was hurt.

Or shot someone else in the crossfire. Armed janitors? Have you hired janitors lately?

[TitanTiger 20,510]

1 minute ago, Mikey said:

All the more reason to have armed people on-site at all times. It's possible that had that janitor in Nashville been armed and trained he could have stopped this incident before a single student or teacher was hurt.

But again, you are shifting the argument.  This what Leftfield and I were responding to that you said:

Had it been common knowledge that, say, 25% of the teachers at the school in question were armed it's clear that this madwoman would have gone elsewhere.

And what he and I are rightly pointing out is that this logic only holds if mass shooters are rational.  Many, if not most, are not.  They have no interest in self-preservation.  In fact the opposite is often true - they WANT to die doing this.  It's basically Suicide by Cop with a side of "f*** society" thrown in by killing innocents on their way out.  And it's why arming teachers or having armed guards on campus - while I agree to an extent, won't solve the problem.  It will stop some but not all, perhaps not even most of these shootings.  You have to attack it from more angles than just fortifying schools til they resemble armed compounds.  And some of those angles need to be reducing the availability and proliferation of certain types of weapons among the general population.  These types of weapons need to be regulated more strictly such that it's much harder to get than say a 9mm pistol, .38 revolver or shotgun.

[Mikey 16,714]

5 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Utterly moronic lie. Pure idiocy.

https://time.com/6260075/irs-87000-agents-republican-lie/

It took 5 months to get my tax refund last year because of staffing shortages. This isn’t 87k auditors. This is the kind of crazy lie they know their weak-minded base will lap up. Step away from the trough.

Just the other day I saw actual TV footage of an upper-level Treasury official admitting before congress that the 87,000 agents would be mostly used to target taxpayers with incomes below $400,000. You should drop Bungling Biden a note and tell him to get his minions on the same page.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

3 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Just the other day I saw actual TV footage of an upper-level Treasury official admitting before congress that the 87,000 agents would be mostly used to target taxpayers with incomes below $400,000. You should drop Bungling Biden a note and tell him to get his minions on the same page.

It should be easy to provide a link for this assertion since it was testimony before Congress.

[TexasTiger 13,004]

6 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Just the other day I saw actual TV footage of an upper-level Treasury official admitting before congress that the 87,000 agents would be mostly used to target taxpayers with incomes below $400,000. You should drop Bungling Biden a note and tell him to get his minions on the same page.

Link?

[Mikey 16,714]

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

These types of weapons need to be regulated more strictly such that it's much harder to get than say a 9mm pistol, .38 revolver or shotgun.

Is it possible to un-ring that bell? AR-15 and AK-47 rifles are everywhere. Some say they are the most common firearms in the United States. Criminals are currently buying and selling these rifles on street corners just like marijuana. Pass the regulations if you choose but those regulations won't solve the problem. Other measures need to be considered.

[Mikey 16,714]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Link?

I saw it on Fox news. Why watch any other?

[TitanTiger 20,510]

Just now, Mikey said:

Is it possible to un-ring that bell? AR-15 and AK-47 rifles are everywhere. Some say they are the most common firearms in the United States. Criminals are currently buying and selling these rifles on street corners just like marijuana. Pass the regulations if you choose but those regulations won't solve the problem. Other measures need to be considered.

I think it comes down to political will.  Other countries have managed to do it after the fact - Australia comes to mind. 

[Mikey 16,714]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

I think it comes down to political will.  Other countries have managed to do it after the fact - Australia comes to mind. 

I watched that as it happened. There's something different about the Aussies vs the Americans. We revolted from England while the Aussies stuck with the Brits. That difference is centuries old and it's still there today. I don't think Americans will meekly turn over their firearms to the government.

[I_M4_AU 7,957]

45 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

I don’t buy into any ideology. You can’t track a simple conversation

The conversation with DKW defies this thought.  Why would you correct him if you don’t buy into this ideology?

If it was sarcasm, I could see it, otherwise…..

49 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You’re so ideological, it’s keeping you from seeing that.

My ideology is based on reality.  Forcing the world to *affirm* what is insane is enabling the mentally ill.  In this world, if you deny the trans ideology you are labeled a Transphobe and socially scorned and that is intentional.  

I know you have resisted the idea that it is normal to sterilize minors, as have I, but with this incident it seems the trans movement is demanding every person should affirm their thoughts even to the point that everything involving trans is off limits to the law and/or legislation.

We even have the Trans Resistance Network defending her actions:

 

TRN has since shutdown their twitter which only indicate this screen shot is real.

There is much we don’t know about the motive of the shooter, but it will come out.  In the meantime we can all anticipate the next move by the Trans Gender groups:

 

 

[TexasTiger 13,004]

5 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The conversation with DKW defies this thought.  Why would you correct him if you don’t buy into this ideology?

If it was sarcasm, I could see it, otherwise…..

My ideology is based on reality.  Forcing the world to *affirm* what is insane is enabling the mentally ill.  In this world, if you deny the trans ideology you are labeled a Transphobe and socially scorned and that is intentional.  

I know you have resisted the idea that it is normal to sterilize minors, as have I, but with this incident it seems the trans movement is demanding every person should affirm their thoughts even to the point that everything involving trans is off limits to the law and/or legislation.

We even have the Trans Resistance Network defending her actions:

 

TRN has since shutdown their twitter which only indicate this screen shot is real.

There is much we don’t know about the motive of the shooter, but it will come out.  In the meantime we can all anticipate the next move by the Trans Gender groups:

 

 

You’re acting dense as a brick. David said trans woman. Does that make him a proponent of “trans ideology”? The person in question was not a trans woman. Odd, but telling, that you think someone correcting a misstatement is ideological.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

I think what it comes down to for me is that it seems like everytime one of these shootings happen, the same thing happens afterward - nothing.  The same excuses for why nothing can be done get recycled.  I'm tired of the sort of limited thinking being employed where we act as if the 2nd Amendment, gun regulations, and public safety are all diametrically opposed somehow - like it's some zero sum game.  I think we are more creative and can think more critically than this.

Our background checks are inadequate.

Our mental health treatment and notification mechanisms are woefully inadequate to non-existent.

Our expectations for the kinds of weapons just anyone should be able to obtain are out of balance and nonsensical.

The protections offered at our schools aren't good enough.

Our understanding of what a "well-regulated" militia should entail has barely been explored.

And all of these shortcomings in our understanding and views on the matter have been and are being constantly manipulated by the extremes on either end of the gun debate.  Until we're all willing to wrestle with these and many more facets of the gun issue in this country and do something, we're going to keep half-assing things and getting the same results.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

41 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I saw it on Fox news. Why watch any other?

Because the Clintons killed Seth Rich, Trump won in 2020, BLM stormed the capitol.

[I_M4_AU 7,957]

15 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You’re acting dense as a brick. David said trans woman. Does that make him a proponent of “trans ideology”? The person in question was not a trans woman. Odd, but telling, that you think someone correcting a misstatement is ideological.

Yes, it does make David a proponent of the ideology.  That ideology is high on the victimhood hierarchy and are the real victims of this incident according to the ideology.

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

11 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You’re acting dense as a brick. David said trans woman. Does that make him a proponent of “trans ideology”? The person in question was not a trans woman. Odd, but telling, that you think someone correcting a misstatement is ideological.

I could be wrong here but I think he was probably referring you stating earlier that whether or not the person was trans was relevant or anything to do with the shooting, but find it necessary to correct DKW because he did not use the correct terminology. 

Could be you defend the media saying they talk about whatever this person identifies as. Maybe he and DKW are just trying to point out that in a CNN article about the shooter there is one sentence in passing about the gender identity of this shooter. Had the shooter been straight and any of the victims been trans it would have been mentioned in the headlines, mentioned in almost every sentence and most likely labeled as a hate crime.

None of which changes anything about this tragedy, but it does make one ask why the bias in the media about this stuff. 

[AU9377 5,026]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I am 100% for regulating fire rates, who can buy, etc. But what are you going to do about criminals with guns?

There will still be criminals with illegal assault weapons.  There are too many to think that won't happen.  However, making them more difficult to obtain and illegal to sell will mean that people like the 19 year old kid in Uvalde, Texas and the young woman in Nashville won't have them in their hands.  They didn't have to find some dangerous guy in a drug cartel to obtain those guns.  They simply walked into Big Dan's Guns and Ammo and bought them.

Having more of them certainly doesn't make us any safer and the only way to have less of them is to stop allowing them to be sold. I don't plan to live where I have to strap on as though I'm living the real world version of The Living Dead every day.

Criminals can make bombs.  That doesn't mean we need to make buying explosives legal for everyone.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

11 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, it does make David a proponent of the ideology.  That ideology is high on the victimhood hierarchy and are the real victims of this incident according to the ideology.

No it doesn't.  Trans woman is just shorthand for "biological man who identifies as female" and trans man is just shorthand for "biological female who identifies as a man."  You can use those terms to explain the situation without buying into the ideology.  Buying into the ideology would be simply calling Audrey Hale a man, no qualifiers, simply because of their gender identity.  It would be saying things like "trans women are women."

[AU9377 5,026]

12 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, it does make David a proponent of the ideology.  That ideology is high on the victimhood hierarchy and are the real victims of this incident according to the ideology.

 

Look at the video of her entering the school.   She was born female and lived as a female.  She supposedly identified online as a male in some online discussions.  None of which has anything to do with this horrible act.  Nobody sane kills innocent kids.  Nobody.  That doesn't excuse the behavior, but focusing on that and not on the fact that she was able to freely buy those two assault weapons is just ridiculous.

[AU9377 5,026]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

All the more reason to have armed people on-site at all times. It's possible that had that janitor in Nashville been armed and trained he could have stopped this incident before a single student or teacher was hurt.

What if she had not been armed with those particular weapons?  It would have taken her several shots just to get the glass to break and for her to reach inside and open the doors.  That small amount of time would have likely given that janitor enough time to sound the alarm or run to the second floor and tell someone. 

As it is, she was capable of spraying bullets and quickly getting thru the doors and be on her way.

[Leftfield 2,651]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Is it possible to un-ring that bell? AR-15 and AK-47 rifles are everywhere. Some say they are the most common firearms in the United States. Criminals are currently buying and selling these rifles on street corners just like marijuana. 

And so your solution is to.....keep making more of them?

Yes, these weapons will be in the system for a long time, but the longer we wait, the longer it will be before they're gone.

[Leftfield 2,651]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

I saw it on Fox news. Why watch any other?

Least shocking post I've ever seen.

[TexasTiger 13,004]

30 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I could be wrong here but I think he was probably referring you stating earlier that whether or not the person was trans was relevant or anything to do with the shooting, but find it necessary to correct DKW because he did not use the correct terminology. 

Could be you defend the media saying they talk about whatever this person identifies as. Maybe he and DKW are just trying to point out that in a CNN article about the shooter there is one sentence in passing about the gender identity of this shooter. Had the shooter been straight and any of the victims been trans it would have been mentioned in the headlines, mentioned in almost every sentence and most likely labeled as a hate crime.

None of which changes anything about this tragedy, but it does make one ask why the bias in the media about this stuff. 

How relevant it is is yet to be determined. What’s in the “manifesto”? Maybe it will be relevant. What is currently known is that a person with significant known mental health challenges easily & legally purchased 7 firearms, including assault weapons. That’s universally concerning regardless of sex or gender.

But if a person is going to mention someone’s “trans”, and misstates it, or any other key misstatement, what’s wrong with a person responding mentioning the factual misstatement? I just pointed it out, “BTW…” When you say someone is a trans woman you’re also indicating they were born male, so if you misstate it you’re getting both their sex and gender wrong.

[Leftfield 2,651]

11 hours ago, Mikey said:

The Nashville police have stated that the shooter made attack plans for two different schools and chose the one that didn't have security. So yes, it's very clear that she was avoiding places that could bite back. She was rational enough to draw maps of the buildings and choose the school that didn't have security. Armed teachers would have sent her off in another direction.

Also would like to point out that you're conflating rational with logical here. A person can be irrational and still think logically. 

For instance, a person can logically conclude that they may need a weapon to defend themselves from an aggressor. At the same time, they may irrationally think that an 18th century document that gives the right to own that weapon would encompass any weapon that person chooses, in perpetuity, regardless of technological advancement, the destructive power of that weapon, and the impact it has on the rest of society.

[I_M4_AU 7,957]

29 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

No it doesn't.  Trans woman is just shorthand for "biological man who identifies as female" and trans man is just shorthand for "biological female who identifies as a man."  You can use those terms to explain the situation without buying into the ideology.  Buying into the ideology would be simply calling Audrey Hale a man, no qualifiers, simply because of their gender identity.  It would be saying things like "trans women are women."

What is your prediction as to how long this mass shooting will be attributed to a white male?

The shorthand seems to even confuse the liberal media:

A squabble over misgendering offered a surreal sideline to the Nashville, Tennessee, Christian school shooting as activists called out news outlets scrambling to keep up with the suspect’s preferred pronouns.

The mainstream media did an about-face after Nashville police said several hours after the attack that the assailant was transgender, with some outlets issuing statements explaining their initial use of female pronouns as gender-identity advocates blasted them for misgendering and deadnaming the shooter.

“5 times @cnn misgendered. No correction. A mass shooting is horrible. Misgendering does not make anything better,” said a much-retweeted post by the “Karen Lopez” account.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/mar/28/media-outlets-backpedal-after-misgendering-accusat/

Activist calling out misgendering is an indication of an ideology, is it not?

I think everybody knew this individual was mentally ill without the labels.