Interesting analysis on schism in gop

[auburnatl1 4,934]

3 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

No.  People who are desperately poor cannot see the value of education.  They are too busy with the burden of mere survival.

The first thing you have to give people is hope, a reason for hope.

You cannot defend this level of inequality.  It is inhumane.  It is immoral. 

 

So people who  are “burdened with survival” there’s no solution for? Generationally screwed?  Just Robin Hood the hell out the system and that’s the fix all. So we don’t raise up individuals and their individual  value, just care take them. Forever. Your mindset doesnt fix, its just blame and bandaids.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

25 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

So people who  are “burdened with survival” there’s no solution for? Generationally screwed?  Just Robin Hood the hell out the system and that’s the fix all. So we don’t raise up individuals and their individual  value, just care take them. Forever. Your mindset doesnt fix, its just blame and bandaids.

No.  That is a lie.  You are a liar.  You aren't even attempting to understand the plight of others.  You do not genuinely care.  All you know is,,, it's working for you,,, how selfish, how cruel, how unpatriotic, how antithetical to Christianity.

First,, you have to provide basic security.  Then you can begin to educate.

Robin Hood???  Are you joking?  We spend more on welfare for the wealthy than the poor.

 

[auburnatl1 4,934]

19 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

No.  That is a lie.  You are a liar. 

Dear lord ichy.  I may be wrong, naive, iq of chipmunk, not empathizing with others, whatever. But  I’m a liar? A integrity attack? You post this to others constantly when you disagree. There’s a line between a direct or keeping it real style, and just having  having serious serious anger issues.  

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Dear lord ichy.  I may be wrong, naive, iq of chipmunk, not empathizing with others, whatever. But  I’m a liar? A integrity attack? You post this to others constantly when you disagree. There’s a line between a direct or keeping it real style, and just having  having serious serious anger issues.  

No anger what so ever.  Have a nice day!

That line about "Robin Hood" is just pathetic.  It really shows how utterly dishonest or, just plain stupid you are.  Inequality is growing and,,, your answer is "Robin Hood"???   I can no longer take you seriously.

Edited September 28, 2023 by icanthearyou

[auburnatl1 4,934]

19 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

No anger what so ever.  Have a nice day!

That line about "Robin Hood" is just pathetic.  It really shows how utterly dishonest or, just plain stupid you are.  Inequality is growing and,,, your answer is "Robin Hood"???   I can no longer take you seriously.

I was seeing if you could go beyond standard bourgeois vs proletariat Wikipedia cut and paste stuff. It seemed appropriate to use simple metaphors for you.

[jj3jordan 2,053]

5 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

No.  People who are desperately poor cannot see the value of education.  They are too busy with the burden of mere survival.

The first thing you have to give people is hope, a reason for hope.

You cannot defend this level of inequality.  It is inhumane.  It is immoral. 

 

What level of inequality are you looking for? What will make you happy with the inequality of people in the population. Please define acceptable inequality (you have never defined unacceptable inequality either) quantify this number, and suggest a path forward to remedy the inequality that you see aa inhumane and immoral.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

58 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I was seeing if you could go beyond standard bourgeois vs proletariat Wikipedia cut and paste stuff. It seemed appropriate to use simple metaphors for you.

Yeah, sure.   No I know that you are a liar.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

What level of inequality are you looking for? What will make you happy with the inequality of people in the population. Please define acceptable inequality (you have never defined unacceptable inequality either) quantify this number, and suggest a path forward to remedy the inequality that you see aa inhumane and immoral.

Those are not the correct questions.  The correct questions would be:

Why are we promoting extreme inequality?

How long before it creates a level of misery that is unacceptable to the majority?

Why are we allowing the government to take on so much debt?

Why did we not learn the lessons of the early 20th century?

Where will the next credit crisis occur (commercial real estate is my guess)?

IMHO, anytime a growing economy is experiencing in increase in poverty,,, the conditions are right for unacceptable inequality.

[jj3jordan 2,053]

8 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Those are not the correct questions.  The correct questions would be:

Why are we promoting extreme inequality?

How long before it creates a level of misery that is unacceptable to the majority?

Why are we allowing the government to take on so much debt?

Why did we not learn the lessons of the early 20th century?

Where will the next credit crisis occur (commercial real estate is my guess)?

IMHO, anytime a growing economy is experiencing in increase in poverty,,, the conditions are right for unacceptable inequality.

So no answer.

Nobody is promoting anything. It happens. You have offered nothing to the conversation regarding a solution. 
We should not be taking on more government debt. Maybe the president will propose a budget that is balanced. Commercial real estate will survive.  Or, maybe the economy isn’t growing, we are just being told that. That explains an increase in poverty despite an alleged growing economy.

Propose a solution ICHY.  It doesn’t help to just whine.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

14 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

So no answer.

Nobody is promoting anything. It happens. You have offered nothing to the conversation regarding a solution. 
We should not be taking on more government debt. Maybe the president will propose a budget that is balanced. Commercial real estate will survive.  Or, maybe the economy isn’t growing, we are just being told that. That explains an increase in poverty despite an alleged growing economy.

Propose a solution ICHY.  It doesn’t help to just whine.

Sure.  We can talk about solutions some more.  There are thousands of actions that can be taken to ensure equality, capitalism and, democracy.

However, unless you are even willing to concede that extreme inequality is a threat,,, why bother.

No one is whining.  Why play that game.  It is dumb.

[jj3jordan 2,053]

3 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Sure.  We can talk about solutions some more.  There are thousands of actions that can be taken to ensure equality, capitalism and, democracy.

However, unless you are even willing to concede that extreme inequality is a threat,,, why bother.

No one is whining.  Why play that game.  It is dumb.

With thousands of actions available to ensure income equality or at least prevent extreme inequality will you please suggest some of these please?

Sorry ICHY you have been whining about it across numerous boards for who knows how long. Here is your chance to solve the problem. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

11 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

With thousands of actions available to ensure income equality or at least prevent extreme inequality will you please suggest some of these please?

Sorry ICHY you have been whining about it across numerous boards for who knows how long. Here is your chance to solve the problem. 

Again,,, many have been discussed.  If you do not believe inequality is a problem.  Please,,, do not waste our time.

[jj3jordan 2,053]

34 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Again,,, many have been discussed.  If you do not believe inequality is a problem.  Please,,, do not waste our time.

You waste everybody’s time when you constantly gripe but don’t offer solutions.  So,,,again,,,you’ve got nothing.

[homersapien 11,379]

On 9/28/2023 at 3:27 PM, auburnatl1 said:

I was seeing if you could go beyond standard bourgeois vs proletariat Wikipedia cut and paste stuff. It seemed appropriate to use simple metaphors for you.

Well, he could be the second coming of Jesus.  The rhetoric is spot on.

[auburnatl1 4,934]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Well, he could be the second coming of Jesus.  The rhetoric is spot on.

Doubtful. But it is nice to know he’s got “thousands” of solutions.  Might come in handy.

Edited September 30, 2023 by auburnatl1

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

You waste everybody’s time when you constantly gripe but don’t offer solutions.  So,,,again,,,you’ve got nothing.

If you say so.  Again, why discuss if you do not believe inequality is a problem.

 

[jj3jordan 2,053]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

If you say so.  Again, why discuss if you do not believe inequality is a problem.

 

You say it exists. I don't disagree that it exists.

You complain constantly about it. I don't.

You have no remedy or fix to the problem. I asked you to propose a fix.  You refuse to do so. You try to make it about me. It's not about me.

It is about inequality. 

More time wasted by your lack of discussion.

 

[auburnatl1 4,934]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

If you say so.  Again, why discuss if you do not believe inequality is a problem.

 

Ok. Waiting for game I’ll play. Of course inequity is a problem. No one disagrees with that. And water is wet. Socialists/progressives love going on about the Scandinavian economic model.  Dig deeper. What enables it? The US high school grad rate is under 85%. Scandinavian countries are above 95% and it’s a superior education. Checkmate.

Stop endlessly looping about  liars, capital and society, and fair. Your canned inequity rants have been around since the Greeks.  Actually think and solve the problem.

Edited September 30, 2023 by auburnatl1

[icanthearyou 4,463]

20 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

You say it exists. I don't disagree that it exists.

You complain constantly about it. I don't.

You have no remedy or fix to the problem. I asked you to propose a fix.  You refuse to do so. You try to make it about me. It's not about me.

It is about inequality. 

More time wasted by your lack of discussion.

 

 

20 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Ok. Waiting for game I’ll play. Of course inequity is a problem. No one disagrees with that. And water is wet. Socialists/progressives love going on about the Scandinavian economic model.  Dig deeper. What enables it? The US high school grad rate is under 85%. Scandinavian countries are above 95% and it’s a superior education. Checkmate.

Stop endlessly looping about  liars, capital and society, and fair. Your canned inequity rants have been around since the Greeks.  Actually think and solve the problem.

Do either of you realize we have been here before?  Do you realize the amount of human suffering?

And of course,,, neither of you are genuine about discussing the many programs and policies that could help.

Neither of you actually care about anyone,,, other than yourselves.  If you did,,, you would actually discuss the some of the obvious policies that could help.

 

[jj3jordan 2,053]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

 

Do either of you realize we have been here before?  Do you realize the amount of human suffering?

And of course,,, neither of you are genuine about discussing the many programs and policies that could help.

Neither of you actually care about anyone,,, other than yourselves.  If you did,,, you would actually discuss the some of the obvious policies that could help.

 

You have offered nothing to discuss. I have asked you numerous times. You are apparently afraid to offer up solutions to your own problem but I don’t know why. I guess you feel they could easily be debunked by any rational person? You seem so adamant to complain but so fearful to remedy. 
 

Oh yeah. You have no idea what I or anybody but yourself cares about.  So,,,again,,,stop with your pathetic personal attacks and try to stay on topic. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

8 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

You have offered nothing to discuss. I have asked you numerous times. You are apparently afraid to offer up solutions to your own problem but I don’t know why. I guess you feel they could easily be debunked by any rational person? You seem so adamant to complain but so fearful to remedy. 
 

Oh yeah. You have no idea what I or anybody but yourself cares about.  So,,,again,,,stop with your pathetic personal attacks and try to stay on topic. 

No, not at all.  We should be discussing the solutions and,,, the benefits to ALL by employing some of the solutions.

However, neither of you genuinely wish to discuss.  So again, why wast my time.

If either of you are sincere,,, you begin the conversation.  Can you see even one possible solution to income inequality?

Edited October 1, 2023 by icanthearyou

[jj3jordan 2,053]

17 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

No, not at all.  We should be discussing the solutions and,,, the benefits to ALL by employing some of the solutions.

However, neither of you genuinely wish to discuss.  So again, why wast my time.

If either of you are sincere,,, you begin the conversation.  Can you see even one possible solution to income inequality?

Personally I would like for business owners pass on profits to workers and raise their wages as opposed to keeping all the increased profits for themselves. I think businesses who pay minimum wage for a job for years are wrong. I think you should pay an employee what they are worth, not what they will take. I think we should build more and manufacture more in the US and not import as much from foreign countries. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

Personally I would like for business owners pass on profits to workers and raise their wages as opposed to keeping all the increased profits for themselves. I think businesses who pay minimum wage for a job for years are wrong. I think you should pay an employee what they are worth, not what they will take. I think we should build more and manufacture more in the US and not import as much from foreign countries. 

Thank you.  I agree.  We need to stop being a financialized economy (producing mainly debt) and, reemerge as production economy.  I also agree with business using profits to reward workers, conduct R&D, reinvest, not just paying the very top executives and, repurchasing their own stock.

Increasing the minimum wage helps.  However, there are many who cannot afford necessities who make above minimum wage.  I think we need to assist low income workers more with healthcare, childcare, housing.  Security in the necessities makes for better workers, better citizens.  I believe it is an investment, not a cost.

I believe we have to reform government by ending paid lobbying, end dark, unlimited campaign finance.  Government will unfairly favor those who can afford to buy influence.

I believe we need a tax on financial transactions.  Why should every other exchange be taxed but not financial assets?

I believe we need to end the cap on Social Security taxes and, even "passive income" should be included (with a few exceptions for middle class housing).

I believe we need to raise taxes on our top earners (our oligarchs).  However, not necessarily by raising the tax rate.  I believe it would be much more effective to eliminate the ridiculous (and unfair) forms of tax avoidance.

I believe we need to look at ending depletion and carried interest.

I believe we need to revitalize unions and, make organizing easier.

I believe we need to look at ways of ending the offshoring of corporate income.

I believe we need to totally revamp our trade policies.  We should do more for those who are aligned with democracy, human rights and, those countries who will support the dollar.

I believe we must find ways to cut military spending so that we can invest more in society.

I think we need to stop wage theft.  It is more than all other theft combined.

I believe we should remove the barriers to assistance from the SBA.  The upper middle class can be a real force for growth again.

I believe we need stronger consumer protection laws, particularly involving contracts.  And, regulate how companies use power to shift the supply curve.

I think we need much tougher laws for corporate, governmental crimes and, less punitive laws for nonviolent individual offenders.

I believe we have to start enforcing anti trust laws again.

 

 

 

[auburnatl1 4,934]

On 10/1/2023 at 12:55 PM, icanthearyou said:

Thank you.  I agree.  We need to stop being a financialized economy (producing mainly debt) and, reemerge as production economy.  I also agree with business using profits to reward workers, conduct R&D, reinvest, not just paying the very top executives and, repurchasing their own stock.

Increasing the minimum wage helps.  However, there are many who cannot afford necessities who make above minimum wage.  I think we need to assist low income workers more with healthcare, childcare, housing.  Security in the necessities makes for better workers, better citizens.  I believe it is an investment, not a cost.

I believe we have to reform government by ending paid lobbying, end dark, unlimited campaign finance.  Government will unfairly favor those who can afford to buy influence.

I believe we need a tax on financial transactions.  Why should every other exchange be taxed but not financial assets?

I believe we need to end the cap on Social Security taxes and, even "passive income" should be included (with a few exceptions for middle class housing).

I believe we need to raise taxes on our top earners (our oligarchs).  However, not necessarily by raising the tax rate.  I believe it would be much more effective to eliminate the ridiculous (and unfair) forms of tax avoidance.

I believe we need to look at ending depletion and carried interest.

I believe we need to revitalize unions and, make organizing easier.

I believe we need to look at ways of ending the offshoring of corporate income.

I believe we need to totally revamp our trade policies.  We should do more for those who are aligned with democracy, human rights and, those countries who will support the dollar.

I believe we must find ways to cut military spending so that we can invest more in society.

I think we need to stop wage theft.  It is more than all other theft combined.

I believe we should remove the barriers to assistance from the SBA.  The upper middle class can be a real force for growth again.

I believe we need stronger consumer protection laws, particularly involving contracts.  And, regulate how companies use power to shift the supply curve.

I think we need much tougher laws for corporate, governmental crimes and, less punitive laws for nonviolent individual offenders.

I believe we have to start enforcing anti trust laws again.

 

 

 

Not a blind attack and your clearest post I’ve seen. Almost a manifesto. I don’t agree with some of it, but do appreciate it.

[jj3jordan 2,053]

On 10/1/2023 at 11:55 AM, icanthearyou said:

Thank you.  I agree.  We need to stop being a financialized economy (producing mainly debt) and, reemerge as production economy.  I also agree with business using profits to reward workers, conduct R&D, reinvest, not just paying the very top executives and, repurchasing their own stock.

Increasing the minimum wage helps.  However, there are many who cannot afford necessities who make above minimum wage.  I think we need to assist low income workers more with healthcare, childcare, housing.  Security in the necessities makes for better workers, better citizens.  I believe it is an investment, not a cost.

I believe we have to reform government by ending paid lobbying, end dark, unlimited campaign finance.  Government will unfairly favor those who can afford to buy influence.

I believe we need a tax on financial transactions.  Why should every other exchange be taxed but not financial assets?

I believe we need to end the cap on Social Security taxes and, even "passive income" should be included (with a few exceptions for middle class housing).

I believe we need to raise taxes on our top earners (our oligarchs).  However, not necessarily by raising the tax rate.  I believe it would be much more effective to eliminate the ridiculous (and unfair) forms of tax avoidance.

I believe we need to look at ending depletion and carried interest.

I believe we need to revitalize unions and, make organizing easier.

I believe we need to look at ways of ending the offshoring of corporate income.

I believe we need to totally revamp our trade policies.  We should do more for those who are aligned with democracy, human rights and, those countries who will support the dollar.

I believe we must find ways to cut military spending so that we can invest more in society.

I think we need to stop wage theft.  It is more than all other theft combined.

I believe we should remove the barriers to assistance from the SBA.  The upper middle class can be a real force for growth again.

I believe we need stronger consumer protection laws, particularly involving contracts.  And, regulate how companies use power to shift the supply curve.

I think we need much tougher laws for corporate, governmental crimes and, less punitive laws for nonviolent individual offenders.

I believe we have to start enforcing anti trust laws again.

 

 

 

See that wasn’t all that hard. Some of it would not relate but some decent proposals. Probably ones everyone would agree with. Well done ICHY. Wait…who are you and what have you done with ICHY?