About Chad Baker-Mazara: That's on Coach Pearl

[cole256 17,084]

1 minute ago, KansasTiger said:

I think you're mischaracterizng my view of Basketball. Its a bit unfair to say my view of CBM necessitates a desire for old fashioned emotionless slow basketball. Thats not true at all.

What I dont like are actions like CBM hooking a player to fall on top of him as he shoots a three to get a foul, which if i recall, he got a tech for. That's not emotion, that's calculated dirty basketball. I was pretty vocal about his style of play way early on in the season, not simply when it cost us. But now that it has cost us, you want to tell me I would just wait till it did to justify how I feel. The other way of looking at it was I was right in the concern that I voiced.

There's no way to prove his pov one way or another definitively, and ultimately our discussion will have no affect on his standing with the team. But I appreciate the conversation.

No the arky game everybody went crazy about is he got a tech for talking back at the arky guy. Not backing down. Showing that he's not afraid. 

Hooking a guys arm isn't considered dirty at all. If he had fell on top of the guy then maybe dirty. There's a difference between actually dirty ball and doing stuff to sell fouls. Which once again is my point, what has he actually done that was dirty, what has he actually instigated? The stuff he got in trouble for was retaliation. You can't be both the instigator and the retaliator. 

And yeah you was right eventually but in the grand scheme you was wrong waaay more than right. 

You are really disliking this guy because he won't turn his head and just take it.... That's crazy to me. A team needs a back bone. And you can't let a team think they have you or you will back down. That's how we lost at the end of the game. The Yale guy wasn't scared at all. He literally waved off his screens

[KansasTiger 3,248]

Just now, cole256 said:

No the arky game everybody went crazy about is he got a tech for talking back at the arky guy. Not backing down. Showing that he's not afraid. 

Hooking a guys arm isn't considered dirty at all. If he had fell on top of the guy then maybe dirty. There's a difference between actually dirty ball and doing stuff to sell fouls. Which once again is my point, what has he actually done that was dirty, what has he actually instigated? The stuff he got in trouble for was retaliation. You can't be both the instigator and the retaliator. 

And yeah you was right eventually but in the grand scheme you was wrong waaay more than right. 

You are really disliking this guy because he won't turn his head and just take it.... That's crazy to me. A team needs a back bone. And you can't let a team think they have you or you will back down. That's how we lost at the end of the game. The Yale guy wasn't scared at all. He literally waved off his screens

Thata not what I said at all. But if you're going to change my argument to better fit your response, there's no point in continuing it. Because anything I say you will tell me what I 'really' mean to fit your narrative. And I got enough of that on the horrendous political forums to know no one wins in that type of discussion.

[cole256 17,084]

10 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

Thata not what I said at all. But if you're going to change my argument to better fit your response, there's no point in continuing it. Because anything I say you will tell me what I 'really' mean to fit your narrative. And I got enough of that on the horrendous political forums to know no one wins in that type of discussion.

I literally said what I felt was fact and what was opinion. Of course you haven't said that at all because you haven't said why you dislike him at all because you really don't have a reason. You offered that he was playing a role as an instigator and that's not true but it's what you feel. And after saying how you felt I didn't accuse you of changing my words. 

If you actually think about it we can't continue this convo because you keep saying stuff without an explanation and you will just keep arguing your point without really saying it making it impossible to debate because all you have to do is keep arguing without explaining then say I didn't say that every time

And I'm not the one with a narrative you are. You are the one who's wanting to make this bigger than one game. That's a narrative. I'm trying to show you how most of that isn't fact

Edited March 25 by cole256

[PigskinPat 2,579]

9 minutes ago, cole256 said:

No the arky game everybody went crazy about is he got a tech for talking back at the arky guy. Not backing down. Showing that he's not afraid. 

Hooking a guys arm isn't considered dirty at all. If he had fell on top of the guy then maybe dirty. There's a difference between actually dirty ball and doing stuff to sell fouls. Which once again is my point, what has he actually done that was dirty, what has he actually instigated? The stuff he got in trouble for was retaliation. You can't be both the instigator and the retaliator. 

And yeah you was right eventually but in the grand scheme you was wrong waaay more than right. 

You are really disliking this guy because he won't turn his head and just take it.... That's crazy to me. A team needs a back bone. And you can't let a team think they have you or you will back down. That's how we lost at the end of the game. The Yale guy wasn't scared at all. He literally waved off his screens

I really enjoy your posts and your basketball insight, I have an honest question. Why is CBM getting into most of these situations and not our other players? I never see any of our other players backing down from anyone or turning their heads and taking anything, but none of the others seem to get into situations like CBM does (Broome has a few times). Cardwell is banging down low with the bigs where it gets heated and very physical and he doesn’t take a backseat to anyone, but I can’t remember him getting a technical or tied up in a situation (maybe he has and my memory is failing me). Jaylin plays harder than just about anyone and so many times imposed his will on the guy guarding him, but I don’t remember him being caught up in many if any situations. Is CBM more animated and it draws the eyes of the refs faster? Is it because he’s on the wing where it’s more visible? CBM will be a huge piece of this team next year and will be relied on heavily, but something is happening to put him under the microscope that hasn’t happened with our other players.

[Cardin Drake 1,848]

48 minutes ago, NWALA Tiger said:

You think a good plan us to rely on another True Freshman PG? Why not get one in the portal and see if Pettiford can beat him out? Sometimes  I wonder if some u cats on here even watch the games...

That's not how it works in NIL world. We're going to have to put our resources elsewhere.  We are going to have some much bigger holes to fill. 

[aucat 69]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:08 PM, PUB78 said:

You nailed it. Plus, KD received a lot of technicals too, but he won’t be a problem next year.

KD made some happy fouls, bot hurting anyone, correctable, unlike CBM

[cole256 17,084]

4 minutes ago, PigskinPat said:

I really enjoy your posts and your basketball insight, I have an honest question. Why is CBM getting into most of these situations and not our other players? I never see any of our other players backing down from anyone or turning their heads and taking anything, but none of the others seem to get into situations like CBM does (Broome has a few times). Cardwell is banging down low with the bigs where it gets heated and very physical and he doesn’t take a backseat to anyone, but I can’t remember him getting a technical or tied up in a situation (maybe he has and my memory is failing me). Jaylin plays harder than just about anyone and so many times imposed his will on the guy guarding him, but I don’t remember him being caught up in many if any situations. Is CBM more animated and it draws the eyes of the refs faster? Is it because he’s on the wing where it’s more visible? CBM will be a huge piece of this team next year and will be relied on heavily, but something is happening to put him under the microscope that hasn’t happened with our other players.

I've only seen a few altercations. I'm actually don't know all of these different times some people have mentioned. I guess it would help if we had an official list 

[AURex 2,021]

IMO, coming to this late, is that there is a big difference between the fouling of CBM and other Auburn players. In most cases, Auburn guys foul during intense defensive or offensive play. They are in the mix. Rebounding, guarding, etc.

Baker-Mazara tends to throw elbows and wild pushes and violent jawing outside play. And the refs just will not tolerate that, even if it is retaliatory.

Personally, CBM was my favorite player this year. But his violent streak really got in the way of his great offensive and defensive play.

 

[cole256 17,084]

Can someone point out his violent fouls hurting people? Like what games did this happen?

[aubaseball 2,639]

8 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Can someone point out his violent fouls hurting people? Like what games did this happen?

The last couple of games in the tournament he got tagged for a couple of technicals and I believe it was the Florida game that he almost threw a punch.   He raised his arm up to throw it, but at the last second changed his mind.  

[cbo 7,879]

I honestly haven't read the last few pages, but here are my 2 cents on CBM. 

There was an article a couple days before the tournament praising him for being the "villian" of the team. Of course he embraced that role. How could you blame him? He has that attitude and style that has helped teams win games for decades. And helped us throughout the season. 

Yes, he hurt the team by getting ejected. It was a dumb move that I'm sure he'd take back. But when that's your role, it's a fine line. 

Yet some of the fanbase is turning on him and doesn't want him back. I don't understand that. It's like if the team's best shooter is cold in one game. Yes, it hurts the team but you don't throw him away. 

The team should have stepped up and won without him anyway. All we've heard about is depth. Then one guy goes down and we lose as 13.5 point favorites. 

[e808 3,028]

2 hours ago, cbo said:

I honestly haven't read the last few pages, but here are my 2 cents on CBM. 

There was an article a couple days before the tournament praising him for being the "villian" of the team. Of course he embraced that role. How could you blame him? He has that attitude and style that has helped teams win games for decades. And helped us throughout the season. 

Yes, he hurt the team by getting ejected. It was a dumb move that I'm sure he'd take back. But when that's your role, it's a fine line. 

Yet some of the fanbase is turning on him and doesn't want him back. I don't understand that. It's like if the team's best shooter is cold in one game. Yes, it hurts the team but you don't throw him away. 

The team should have stepped up and won without him anyway. All we've heard about is depth. Then one guy goes down and we lose as 13.5 point favorites. 

Absolutely he made a boneheaded play. I wished J Will would have stepped up and said not today but know that’s his demeanor. The guards came up short and too much to list .  I think Donaldson playing more minutes than usually made him less effective down the stretch.

Broome did his best but shortcomings at the line has always been an issue.  I would prefer 6 or 7 really dependable guys versus 10-12. In the NBA during the playoffs the benches tend to shrink.

[PUB78 1,361]

4 hours ago, cbo said:

I honestly haven't read the last few pages, but here are my 2 cents on CBM. 

There was an article a couple days before the tournament praising him for being the "villian" of the team. Of course he embraced that role. How could you blame him? He has that attitude and style that has helped teams win games for decades. And helped us throughout the season. 

Yes, he hurt the team by getting ejected. It was a dumb move that I'm sure he'd take back. But when that's your role, it's a fine line. 

Yet some of the fanbase is turning on him and doesn't want him back. I don't understand that. It's like if the team's best shooter is cold in one game. Yes, it hurts the team but you don't throw him away. 

The team should have stepped up and won without him anyway. All we've heard about is depth. Then one guy goes down and we lose as 13.5 point favorites. 

I definitely want him back. He is a freak of an athlete and probably will be our top scorer next year. It will not surprise me if he is drafted by the NBA.

I would like for him to learn from this mistake and tone down his attitude some. He needs to play under control.

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

7 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

That's not how it works in NIL world. We're going to have to put our resources elsewhere.  We are going to have some much bigger holes to fill. 

Wow. You don't think we have a need a PG?

Edited March 25 by NWALA Tiger

[Cardin Drake 1,848]

1 hour ago, NWALA Tiger said:

Wow. You don't think we have a need a PG?

I think we have a need at PG and we have put our chips on a very good one.  It's not realistic to think we can recruit a top transfer who will be happy to come in and compete for a starter's role. If we can make that work and keep both guys happy, great. But I don't think so. And NIL money is needed elsewhere.  

[Bigtrain333 98]

Out biggest need is PG. We aren't winning without one which we should know by now since it has absolutely tanked 2 really good teams in the last 3 years.  And we aren't winning with a freshman pg either no matter how good he is. We have to get an experienced transfer pg.

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

15 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

I think we have a need at PG and we have put our chips on a very good one.  It's not realistic to think we can recruit a top transfer who will be happy to come in and compete for a starter's role. If we can make that work and keep both guys happy, great. But I don't think so. And NIL money is needed elsewhere.  

Maybe it will work out. Same thing was thought about Holloway. Its risky. Not good strategy to rely on 1 kid to save the day. BP 's misses on PG's since 2019 are still haunting us today. That's what alot of cats don't understand.  When u miss on a position of need, it can hurt for several years not just 1.

Edited March 25 by NWALA Tiger

[cole256 17,084]

56 minutes ago, NWALA Tiger said:

Maybe it will work out. Same thing was thought about Holloway. Its risky. Not good strategy to rely on 1 kid to save the day. BP 's misses on PG's since 2019 are still haunting us today. That's what alot of cats don't understand.  When u miss on a position of need, it can hurt for several years not just 1.

I'm wondering how you feel about the foul itself. I know you don't like the antics and that's your preference mine is no better than yours.

But were you ok with being thrown out for that? To me the most messed up part of this is once again a good part of our fan base, let's just say aren't the biggest fans of him and because of that we don't have a unified support of that call being controversial. 

To me it's absolutely crazy to get thrown out of a game for something that didn't even hurt anybody. You get thrown out for causing a guy to land on his back and putting his career in jeopardy, or if you spit on someone or use a slur, or something huge like that. 

[CCTAU 3,336]

6 hours ago, PUB78 said:

I definitely want him back. He is a freak of an athlete and probably will be our top scorer next year. It will not surprise me if he is drafted by the NBA.

I would like for him to learn from this mistake and tone down his attitude some. He needs to play under control.

Agreed!

 

For everyone else, bottom line is, Chad is coming back. He's one helluva player that I, and many others, enjoyed seeing get better and better. Everybody claims to want a player with a little dog in him. Maybe some of you need to reevaluate.

Bruce and Chad know it was a mistake. And whether or not we agree with the call, it went down the way it did and caused the team to be rattled enough that I'm not sure they ever really gelled back up. I don't think we'll see that mistake in the post season again. I do think he will have to learn to play a bit more controlled as every ref will have seen and discussed that ejection by next season.  

Chad is the least of our worries. That is the one position that we DON'T have to worry about having an excellent starter at. 

[TexasTiger 12,967]

9 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I'm wondering how you feel about the foul itself. I know you don't like the antics and that's your preference mine is no better than yours.

But were you ok with being thrown out for that? To me the most messed up part of this is once again a good part of our fan base, let's just say aren't the biggest fans of him and because of that we don't have a unified support of that call being controversial. 

To me it's absolutely crazy to get thrown out of a game for something that didn't even hurt anybody. You get thrown out for causing a guy to land on his back and putting his career in jeopardy, or if you spit on someone or use a slur, or something huge like that. 

Folks may disagree on whether it was a one or two, but knowledgeable people have readily said they thought it was a two so the call isn’t uniformly seen as a blown call. It was clearly intentional with no basketball purpose and thus at risk for being called as it was. Poor judgment at a critical time.

That said, I have no problem with effective trash talking, per se. The best trash talkers are intentional, aware of the line and tend to manage their impulses. I think he’s a strong talent who needs to grow up.
 

Multiple things can be true at once. 1) he’s talented and can help the team win. 2) most players with 4 schools in 4 years have some type of personal development deficiencies they need to address. 3) a young man’s prefrontal cortex is developing in their early twenties and better judgment may be around the corner. 4) For most of us, mistakes create growth opportunities, but we have to recognize we’ve made a mistake. Coaches, parents and friends can assist with that recognition or stand in the way of it.

I don’t know what Bruce said to him after or will say. Publicly his reason for saying it should have been a 1 was just because what was at stake, not the criteria of the rule not being met. I hope he challenges Chad to grow up and be a leader.  I could tell Dylan was not happy with him and I hope he hears feedback from his teammates and takes it to heart. I don’t know what his parents might say, but I hope they challenge him to grow.

[cole256 17,084]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Folks may disagree on whether it was a one or two, but knowledgeable people have readily said they thought it was a two so the call isn’t uniformly seen as a blown call. It was clearly intentional with no basketball purpose and thus at risk for being called as it was. Poor judgment at a critical time.

That said, I have no problem with effective trash talking, per se. The best trash talkers are intentional, aware of the line and tend to manage their impulses. I think he’s a strong talent who needs to grow up.
 

Multiple things can be true at once. 1) he’s talented and can help the team win. 2) most players with 4 schools in 4 years have some type of personal development deficiencies they need to address. 3) a young man’s prefrontal cortex is developing in their early twenties and better judgment may be around the corner. 4) For most of us, mistakes create growth opportunities, but we have to recognize we’ve made a mistake. Coaches, parents and friends can assist with that recognition or stand in the way of it.

I don’t know what Bruce said to him after or will say. Publicly his reason for saying it should have been a 1 was just because what was at stake, not the criteria of the rule not being met. I hope he challenges Chad to grow up and be a leader.  I could tell Dylan was not happy with him and I hope he hears feedback from his teammates and takes it to heart. I don’t know what his parents might say, but I hope they challenge him to grow.

I literally asked multiple people the difference between the two to see if anybody would actually try to find out. What knowledgeable people btw? 

Where does it says stuff about intentional, or a basketball purpose? Somebody said this that I imagine you all like so you ran with it. But if it's not in the rule book no matter how much you like the person or how much you dislike the player it's not part of it. 

It was unnecessary but that is the definition of a flagrant one. A flagrant two is brutal, harsh or cruel or dangerous or punishing.” The way I read that is hitting someone over and over, choking someone, a swift elbow in the chest? No way in hell. If we be honest you are taught to do that to separate from a defender anyway, you are taught to do that when you set a good screen, it actually is a basketball play if that had anything to do with anything when it actually doesn't. 

Btw you have no tangible evidence to say or suggest that a guy transferring means personal development problems. Do we know why he transferred? If it didn't have anything to do with fighting or something it shouldn't even be in the discussion. Most of you put everything into the discussion to sit and judge except the things that really do matter. 

One of the years he moved could have been to get closer to home. Moving from a small school to Auburn is a no brainier so why would that have anything to do with this? 

 

He definitely should be learning something from this though, he should know people would turn on him in a blink of an eye, and he should learn that he can't be expected to be treated like everybody else. But unfortunately that's life and society here.

[abw0004 10,125]

My personal opinion on the matter is CBM will learn from this.  The ejection was an embarrassing and frustrating life event for him.  He cost his team dearly.  I think he will come back stronger next year because of it.  I think this because of a quote I read from him before the tournament started:

"I could say that I'm a person who really cares a lot.  When I say I'm down for you, I really mean it.  I'll give you my all.  I said to these guys, 'If I have to, God forbid the worst happen out there for us to win.  I'm throwing it all out there and my mom built that in me."

Chad was not able to live up to this quote and I think that will motivate him to come back stronger next year and learn from his mistakes.  Sometimes it takes one life event to really put things into perspective. 

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

I'm wondering how you feel about the foul itself. I know you don't like the antics and that's your preference mine is no better than yours.

But were you ok with being thrown out for that? To me the most messed up part of this is once again a good part of our fan base, let's just say aren't the biggest fans of him and because of that we don't have a unified support of that call being controversial. 

To me it's absolutely crazy to get thrown out of a game for something that didn't even hurt anybody. You get thrown out for causing a guy to land on his back and putting his career in jeopardy, or if you spit on someone or use a slur, or something huge like that. 

I will never forget. I was on the receiving end of one of those elbows one time. We were playing Johnson High School out of Huntsville. Dude caught me right in the ribs. Took my breath.  It wasn't in the wide open where everyone saw it. It was in the paint with alot of bodies around.Say all that to say this.  CBM, didn't need to do what he did.  I got my shot back at the dude the same way he did me, where no one noticed.  CBM was a victim of his emotions the past few games.  Refs were looking at him. I think it was just as much who committed the foul as the foul itself. Does JWill get kicked out if he committed the same foul? I'm not sure he does.

[TexasTiger 12,967]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I literally asked multiple people the difference between the two to see if anybody would actually try to find out. What knowledgeable people btw? 

Where does it says stuff about intentional, or a basketball purpose? Somebody said this that I imagine you all like so you ran with it. But if it's not in the rule book no matter how much you like the person or how much you dislike the player it's not part of it. 

It was unnecessary but that is the definition of a flagrant one. A flagrant two is brutal, harsh or cruel or dangerous or punishing.” The way I read that is hitting someone over and over, choking someone, a swift elbow in the chest? No way in hell. If we be honest you are taught to do that to separate from a defender anyway, you are taught to do that when you set a good screen, it actually is a basketball play if that had anything to do with anything when it actually doesn't. 

Btw you have no tangible evidence to say or suggest that a guy transferring means personal development problems. Do we know why he transferred? If it didn't have anything to do with fighting or something it shouldn't even be in the discussion. Most of you put everything into the discussion to sit and judge except the things that really do matter. 

One of the years he moved could have been to get closer to home. Moving from a small school to Auburn is a no brainier so why would that have anything to do with this? 

 

He definitely should be learning something from this though, he should know people would turn on him in a blink of an eye, and he should learn that he can't be expected to be treated like everybody else. But unfortunately that's life and society here.

You seem to want to thrust everyone in one of two camps — those who think he was screwed with everyone else being a hater. I don’t fit in either camp.

The blow was clearly intended to punish and it’s not hard to see why many would see it as harsh. Factors that contribute to that assessment are intentionality and having zero basketball purpose- a cheap shot far away from any play for the sole purpose of punishing. Now, in his mind the punishment was in retaliation to a blow that also should have been a foul. But that doesn’t change the fact that it should be obvious to any objective person it was pure punishment.

Among others, the expert on officiating during the broadcast said it was a F2.

31 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

2) most players with 4 schools in 4 years have some type of personal development deficiencies they need to address.

In his case, we don’t know all the details, but we know this:

“Chad failed to live up to his academic responsibilities and is no longer with the program,” Head Coach Brian Dutcher said 

Beginning last summer when he transferred to SDSU from Duquense, multiple people including his father, Derrek Baker, have been open about Baker-Mazara lacking the maturity to handle all facets of being a student-athlete. A year later these issues cost Baker-Mazara a place on the team. 
https://www.eastvillagetimes.com/chad-baker-mazara-no-longer-an-aztec/#google_vignette

 

And this:

 

His teammates consoled him. They also knew that’s just Chad. He’s passionate. He’s fiery. He’s spicy. He’s emotional. He tells the story about his father, Derek Baker, making a game-winning shot in a Dominican Republic pro league and celebrating by mooning the opposing bench.

Baker-Mazara hasn’t mooned anybody — yet — but he’s been as edgy and emotive as advertised, growing up in the DR and coming to the States only three years ago. “We Dominicans,” Baker-Mazara said after arriving at SDSU, “when we do something, we’re really into it. We give a little extra, probably too much sometimes.”

ADVERTISEMENT

 

Two nights earlier against UNLV, he had a technical foul (for taunting) and flagrant foul (for swinging an elbow) minutes apart in the second half. The game before that, he didn’t play after an undisclosed non-COVID medical situation. In the fall, he was regularly disciplined for missing class or skipping weights.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/story/2022-01-30/san-diego-state-sdsu-aztecs-basketball-chad-baker-mazara-new-mexico-lobos-dominican-republic

And this:

Despite a successful season on the court, freshman forward Chad Baker won’t be returning to play for the Duquesne Dukes.

A source tells Pittsburgh Sports Now that despite his talent, Baker and the Duquesne staff had philosophical issues that made it necessary for him to leave the program.

Duquesne basketball on Pittsburgh Sports Now is sponsored by The Summit Academy: setting young men on the path to a better future.

During the second half of the season, Baker developed into one of the Dukes most consistent scoring threats. In 15 games, the 6’7” forward averaged 24.4 minutes, 9.5 points and 2.9 rebounds while shooting 43.8% from the field and 41.7 from 3-point range.

https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2021/04/20/duquesne-and-freshman-chad-baker-part-ways/?fbclid=IwAR25dW-QftvEV-iktK29N0UjctIDkjPoHxOguDzSph9ydy_tl1TF-SIGUN0#google_vignette

Amazing stats for a freshman, but not enough to overcome the concerns.

 

 

I’m not writing him off, but there’s obviously a pattern of immaturity. Folks rarely move from a top 25 team to JUCO absent a compelling reason. No one wonders why he transferred from JUCO to Auburn.

I want the guy to develop into a reliable team player. I’m also not blind to the rollercoaster his career has been due to maturity issues that are still apparent.

[cole256 17,084]

6 minutes ago, NWALA Tiger said:

I will never forget. I was on the receiving end of one of those elbows one time. We were playing Johnson High School out of Huntsville. Dude caught me right in the ribs. Took my breath.  It wasn't in the wide open where everyone saw it. It was in the paint with alot of bodies around.Say all that to say this.  CBM, didn't need to do what he did.  I got my shot back at the dude the same way he did me, where no one noticed.  CBM was a victim of his emotions the past few games.  Refs were looking at him. I think it was just as much who committed the foul as the foul itself. Does JWill get kicked out if he committed the same foul? I'm not sure he does.

I remembered you said you played and the reason I ask you is like I said I know you don't like the antics, I was wondering is the thrown out thing was as weird to you as it was to me. I think this is an example of where people may not understand who didn't actually play how out of norm the actual call is.