CBH After Game Statement

[AU9377 4,929]

37 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Every coach since Dye has failed to sustain any real level of success after that. Maybe it's because they went for the quick fix rather than the right fix.  Foundations aren't fun or easy to build.

Maintaining that level of success is the most difficult thing to do in sports.  That is why you can count on one hand the number of coaches that make it more than 10 years at a major program.  Spurrier himself couldn't maintain that level of success.  Urban Meyer has had some great teams, but he has always run into problems that led to his exit.  Mack Brown did the same at Texas, Fulmer at UT, Richt at uga, and the list goes on and on.  9 out of 10 hires won't make it past the 10 year mark.

[autiger88 3,777]

43 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Every coach since Dye has failed to sustain any real level of success after that. Maybe it's because they went for the quick fix rather than the right fix.  Foundations aren't fun or easy to build.

I agree.

[bigbird 60,521]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Maintaining that level of success is the most difficult thing to do in sports.  That is why you can count on one hand the number of coaches that make it more than 10 years at a major program.  Spurrier himself couldn't maintain that level of success.  Urban Meyer has had some great teams, but he has always run into problems that led to his exit.  Mack Brown did the same at Texas, Fulmer at UT, Richt at uga, and the list goes on and on.  9 out of 10 hires won't make it past the 10 year mark.

IMO, That's a product of society, not the coaching. We now live in a society's based on instant gratification. If the landscape of college football was the same 15-30 years ago many of those you mentioned would still be at their respective schools.

 

People need to stop wanting it the bama or uga way.   Their position in college football was clearly bought and paid for. We need to look towards what Stoops has done at UK.  This is a turtle race and our ceiling is as high as any other in the game. Patience, understanding, and support is the only way to realize AU's potential and to maintain that position.

[aubaseball 2,602]

19 minutes ago, bigbird said:

IMO, That's a product of society, not the coaching. We now live in a society's based on instant gratification. If the landscape of college football was the same 15-30 years ago many of those you mentioned would still be at their respective schools.

 

People need to stop wanting it the bama or uga way.   Their position in college football was clearly bought and paid for. We need to look towards what Stoops has done at UK.  This is a turtle race and our ceiling is as high as any other in the game. Patience, understanding, and support is the only way to realize AU's potential and to maintain that position.

Here, here bird.   Well put!!!   Hopefully everyone gets on board and this thing gets turned around and Auburn can have a run that hasn’t happened at Auburn since the beginning 

[e808 3,025]

Unfortunately we are in a what have u done for me lately society. Objectively speaking what has Kentucky done that’s so significant they are competitive. However is that a result of them being good or the rest of the SEC not being as good. They are still roughly an 8 or 9 win team at best. Lastly we will find out this week how good Kentucky really is . It’s strange that they  are a 22 point dog as the number 11 team and rising 

Edited October 11, 2021 by e808

[Old fan 47 770]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

IMO, That's a product of society, not the coaching. We now live in a society's based on instant gratification. If the landscape of college football was the same 15-30 years ago many of those you mentioned would still be at their respective schools.

 

People need to stop wanting it the bama or uga way.   Their position in college football was clearly bought and paid for. We need to look towards what Stoops has done at UK.  This is a turtle race and our ceiling is as high as any other in the game. Patience, understanding, and support is the only way to realize AU's potential and to maintain that position.

Yep. We can be successful in different ways than Bama and UGA. I mean, come on, Kirby wasn’t crap until he spent many years under Saban and he for the most part has copied this earlier Saban Bama teams. An O that can keep u honest and score when needed, but a D that is just crazy good. That’s not to say that’s the only way to win, but Harsin should get at least 5 years with four of his own recruiting classes. I mean look at Gus at UCF. They look worse than they have under their previous 3 coaches. Bottom line, due to the stupidity of those in charge at the time handing out ridiculous contracts to him, he was not a good HC, recruiter or he O genius we all thought from 2 good seasons. Those being 10 and 13. 

[AU9377 4,929]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

IMO, That's a product of society, not the coaching. We now live in a society's based on instant gratification. If the landscape of college football was the same 15-30 years ago many of those you mentioned would still be at their respective schools.

 

People need to stop wanting it the bama or uga way.   Their position in college football was clearly bought and paid for. We need to look towards what Stoops has done at UK.  This is a turtle race and our ceiling is as high as any other in the game. Patience, understanding, and support is the only way to realize AU's potential and to maintain that position.

If Auburn was Kentucky, I would agree.  Auburn has access to the best recruits in the country.  If improvement is not seen in year 2, year 3 will require a significant showing.  If year 3 is 7 or 8 wins, year 4 is win or bust.  That hasn't changed.  Gus got more of a cushion due to the incredible turn around engineered in 2013.  Even that was exhausted by 2017.  We all know what happened next/

[AU9377 4,929]

5 minutes ago, Old fan 47 said:

Yep. We can be successful in different ways than Bama and UGA. I mean, come on, Kirby wasn’t crap until he spent many years under Saban and he for the most part has copied this earlier Saban Bama teams. An O that can keep u honest and score when needed, but a D that is just crazy good. That’s not to say that’s the only way to win, but Harsin should get at least 5 years with four of his own recruiting classes. I mean look at Gus at UCF. They look worse than they have under their previous 3 coaches. Bottom line, due to the stupidity of those in charge at the time handing out ridiculous contracts to him, he was not a good HC, recruiter or he O genius we all thought from 2 good seasons. Those being 10 and 13. 

Technically that isn't true yet.  UCF was 6-4 last year.

I have never seen a coach at Auburn get that much time without some promising results along the way.  I don't think that will change.  That isn't me saying that Harsin can't produce.  I hope he can, but nobody gets 5 years without anything to show for it.

Edited October 11, 2021 by AU9377

[bigbird 60,521]

8 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

If Auburn was Kentucky, I would agree.  Auburn has access to the best recruits in the country.  If improvement is not seen in year 2, year 3 will require a significant showing.  If year 3 is 7 or 8 wins, year 4 is win or bust.  That hasn't changed.  Gus got more of a cushion due to the incredible turn around engineered in 2013.  Even that was exhausted by 2017.  We all know what happened next/

I think you missed the point

[AU9377 4,929]

Just now, bigbird said:

I think you missed the point

I got the point.  I'm just not a homer in that way.  Maybe I have just seen it too many times to forget that I have seen it before.

[bigbird 60,521]

Just now, AU9377 said:

I got the point.  I'm just not a homer in that way.  

In what way?

[Guest MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I got the point.

The point was that the instant gratification society has led to the issues of unstable programs who fire their coaches after a few years and move on to the next coach to fire after a few years. You then argued a coach should only get 4 years to prove himself. Not sure you actually did get the point but maybe I missed something 🤷‍♂️
Bird is spot on and I’ve been saying it over and over. Hopefully someone more respected on the board than myself saying it can actually gain some traction. Be anxious for nothing but in all things give thanks. Society has unlearned so much. 
Edit: I guess potentially you got that point but just didn’t agree

Edited October 12, 2021 by MustardSeed

[AU9377 4,929]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

The point was that the instant gratification society has led to the issues of unstable programs who fire their coaches after a few years and move on to the next coach to fire after a few years. You then argued a coach should only get 4 years to prove himself. Not sure you actually did get the point but maybe I missed something 🤷‍♂️
Bird is spot on and I’ve been saying it over and over. Hopefully someone more respected on the board than myself saying it can actually gain some traction. Be anxious for nothing but in all things give thanks. Society has unlearned so much. 
Edit: I guess potentially you got that point but just didn’t agree

I simply don't think that it takes a full 5 years to build something that produces results at Auburn.  A program like Kentucky required a total rebuild. That had to be done without any history of success in the sport.  

Auburn has a very recent history of success at the highest levels of the sport and a roster that is not void of talent.    At a school like Auburn, If a coach isn't producing some tangible results that build a program's momentum by years 2 and 3, the momentum that comes with being the fresh face and the energy that gives any new staff a honeymoon of sorts begins to fade.  That has been the case for over 30 years.

That isn't instant gratification, in my opinion.  These coaches make millions and are expected to be some of the best at what they do.  I agree about society in general.

I think the way Steve Spurrier explained coaching tenures may be the most accurate explanation I have heard yet.  He compared them to being a church pastor.  His dad was a Presbyterian pastor. 

When a pastor gets to a new church, everyone is usually excited.  He has new ideas and renewed energy.  His opportunity to grow the congregation is usually at its height during the first few years. He compares that to a coach that comes into a program and has success.  The energy it takes to maintain that success is immense.  Between the 7 and 10 year mark the best of coaches usually find their ideas becoming stale and the energy level dropping.  Spurrier believes that it is during that time that everyone is best served by a change.  Looking around, he has a point.

Edited October 12, 2021 by AU9377

[Old fan 47 770]

4 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Technically that isn't true yet.  UCF was 6-4 last year.

I have never seen a coach at Auburn get that much time without some promising results along the way.  I don't think that will change.  That isn't me saying that Harsin can't produce.  I hope he can, but nobody gets 5 years without anything to show for it.

So maybe I misspoke about UCF’s record last year, but think about it, they beat us a few years back in a New Years bowl and maybe Gus lasts a few years there, but just as he did and was in 13, he was working w recruits that weren’t his. Now, it still remains to be seen whether or not Harsin can recruit in states he had 0 experience in and while he may steal a few from the West Coast or even the Midwest, I think we all know that does not equate to the grind of the SEC. Yes, Gus was given at the least 2 years too many and that is why Harsin and us fans are suffering through another uneven season. 

[Old fan 47 770]

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

If Auburn was Kentucky, I would agree.  Auburn has access to the best recruits in the country.  If improvement is not seen in year 2, year 3 will require a significant showing.  If year 3 is 7 or 8 wins, year 4 is win or bust.  That hasn't changed.  Gus got more of a cushion due to the incredible turn around engineered in 2013.  Even that was exhausted by 2017.  We all know what happened next/

Maybe so, but Gus inherited a less than empty cupboard than Harsin has. Think back to Bowden bad how TT had to deal w the crap left on his plate. 

[e808 3,025]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I simply don't think that it takes a full 5 years to build something that produces results at Auburn.  A program like Kentucky required a total rebuild. That had to be done without any history of success in the sport.  

Auburn has a very recent history of success at the highest levels of the sport and a roster that is not void of talent.    At a school like Auburn, If a coach isn't producing some tangible results that build a program's momentum by years 2 and 3, the momentum that comes with being the fresh face and the energy that gives any new staff a honeymoon of sorts begins to fade.  That has been the case for over 30 years.

That isn't instant gratification, in my opinion.  These coaches make millions and are expected to be some of the best at what they do.  I agree about society in general.

I think the way Steve Spurrier explained coaching tenures may be the most accurate explanation I have heard yet.  He compared them to being a church pastor.  His dad was a Presbyterian pastor. 

When a pastor gets to a new church, everyone is usually excited.  He has new ideas and renewed energy.  His opportunity to grow the congregation is usually at its height during the first few years. He compares that to a coach that comes into a program and has success.  The energy it takes to maintain that success is immense.  Between the 7 and 10 year mark the best of coaches usually find their ideas becoming stale and the energy level dropping.  Spurrier believes that it is during that time that everyone is best served by a change.  Looking around, he has a point.

I agree so why move the goal post now. Auburn isn’t Kentucky, Vandy, or Arkansas. It has been proven that results can happen rather quickly. Then the coaches just seams to either loose focus or make a knee jerk reaction that screws everything up. 

[e808 3,025]

31 minutes ago, Old fan 47 said:

So maybe I misspoke about UCF’s record last year, but think about it, they beat us a few years back in a New Years bowl and maybe Gus lasts a few years there, but just as he did and was in 13, he was working w recruits that weren’t his. Now, it still remains to be seen whether or not Harsin can recruit in states he had 0 experience in and while he may steal a few from the West Coast or even the Midwest, I think we all know that does not equate to the grind of the SEC. Yes, Gus was given at the least 2 years too many and that is why Harsin and us fans are suffering through another uneven season. 

That’s the problem people are still blaming Gus for everything. U do know that Gus help recruit some of those players. There is so much disdain for Gus that even three years from now he will get blamed for stuff. Gus keeps calling fade patterns at the goal line and playing soft covered defense. Gus has moved on and so should we but that’s probably not happening.

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 hours ago, e808 said:

That’s the problem people are still blaming Gus for everything.

No, people aren't blaming Gus for "everything". But we have massive talent deficiencies on this team and that is almost 100% on Gus. It's incomprehensible that anyone would suggest either 1. Harsin is primarily responsible for this roster or 2. that he should just be able to win games with inferior talent. 

No, if we are having an honest conversation about why Auburn football is performing the way that it is halfway into the 2021 season, then we should not just "move on" from the guy who spent the last 8 years turning it into what it is now and what it will be until the current guy can get his own players in. 

7 hours ago, e808 said:

There is so much disdain for Gus that even three years from now he will get blamed for stuff.

This projection makes no sense. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by McLoofus

[DAG 33,982]

It’s season 1 and what are we six games into the season? Both of our losses came to top ten teams and one of those games we were competing very well in. How can anyone conclude or even harshly critique is crazy to me. The next four games will tell a lot. FYI, I said harshly critique for you guys with reading comprehension issues. Not against critiquing but some of you seem to have already made up your mind in regards to this staff. Damn at least give the staff the end of the season haha. 

[e808 3,025]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

It’s season 1 and what are we six games into the season? Both of our losses came to top ten teams and one of those games we were competing very well in. How can anyone conclude or even harshly critique is crazy to me. The next four games will tell a lot. FYI, I said harshly critique for you guys with reading comprehension issues. Not against critiquing but some of you seem to have already made up your mind in regards to this staff. Damn at least give the staff the end of the season haha. 

Valid points but it seems crazy that every little thing that goes wrong is blamed on the previous staff. At what point does the current staff have to take ownership. In the work place do u get to blame everything on the previous people that worked there or do u move on and work with what u have. Like u said let it play out. All games are winnable from here on out if some things are cleaned up. 

[Hank2020 3,199]

1 minute ago, e808 said:

Valid points but it seems crazy that every little thing that goes wrong is blamed on the previous staff. At what point does the current staff have to take ownership. In the work place do u get to blame everything on the previous people that worked there or do u move on and work with what u have. Like u said let it play out. All games are winnable from here on out if some things are cleaned up. 

If the criticism is about ability previous staff own that (wr catching the ball), system, calls critique are on Harsin and company (I personally see immense improvement in system and calls).

[DAG 33,982]

2 minutes ago, e808 said:

Valid points but it seems crazy that every little thing that goes wrong is blamed on the previous staff. At what point does the current staff have to take ownership. In the work place do u get to blame everything on the previous people that worked there or do u move on and work with what u have. Like u said let it play out. All games are winnable from here on out if some things are cleaned up. 

Yeah I don't know. I for sure am not blaming everything on the previous staff, but there are definitely residual results left from the staff that impacts what we do now. Regardless, this is CBH team now. The play is not the fault of Gus although the parts we have are. Right now, we need to give this guy time. These aren't even his players. The coaching staff is doing the best they can with the pieces they have and it hasn't been perfect, but they have won every game they should've won and loss to superior competition. The next few games of like opponents should be the biggest measuring stick. 

[e808 3,025]

Aside from the oline this team does have talent as displayed against two highly rated teams. It’s just when Auburn does something different it normally struggles. The defense is supposed to be a strength. Especially the secondary but it seems to have gotten worse. So is it the scheme or lack of talent. On the offensive side Shed and Drob look like slot guys. Capers and Canion looks like outside guys. So to sum it is Auburn really without talent or it’s that the current players don’t fit the system(aside from the oline).

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, e808 said:

The defense is supposed to be a strength. Especially the secondary but it seems to have gotten worse. So is it the scheme or lack of talent.

This is fair. Mason is making major scheme changes and it's clearly not an overnight fix. And it seems he never made any adjustments in the PSU game. I'm very much in wait and see mode on that.

6 minutes ago, e808 said:

On the offensive side Shed and Drob look like slot guys. Capers and Canion looks like outside guys. So to sum it is Auburn really without talent or it’s that the current players don’t fit the system(aside from the oline).

The receivers are bad. That's just all there is to it. That's why they felt like they had to bring in DRob, who is obviously not a true alpha receiver himself (hence him not carving out a meaningful role at uga). It doesn't matter where these guys "should" line up when we're getting them wide open and they aren't catching the ball or a catchable ball isn't thrown their way. 

[DAG 33,982]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

This is fair. Mason is making major scheme changes and it's clearly not an overnight fix. And it seems he never made any adjustments in the PSU game. I'm very much in wait and see mode on that.

The receivers are bad. That's just all there is to it. That's why they felt like they had to bring in DRob, who is obviously not a true alpha receiver himself (hence him not carving out a meaningful role at uga). It doesn't matter where these guys "should" line up when we're getting them wide open and they aren't catching the ball or a catchable ball isn't thrown their way. 

The talent is what it is. Imagine if this coaching staff had that 2017 talent? That is what I am hoping we get to. JS would be amazing with this group. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by DAG