2019 Recruiting Thread

[toddc 13,194]

2 hours ago, bg5 said:

I have come to a decision that I thought I would share with everyone. I have decided that instead of being positive about our program I am going to be obnoxiously pessimistic about our team and program like so many on this board. It has to be more fun since so many are doing it. So let me start by saying now that we got Cord I think we will have a QB controversy and lose at least one if not two QB's. Since he is more of a running (option QB) I think we lose George because why would he come to a school that doesn't throw a lot. Since we can't get any good RB's we will probably lose at least four games this year which will start the drum beat to fire Gus again. When that happens we won't be able to get anyone during recruiting and the program will go down fast. Our Athletic department won't be able to hire a decent coach so we may be down as many as 10 years before we get some miracle player and do good once then go back down.  Whew that was fun I do feel better. Thanks!!!

Who’s George?

[Gowebb11 9,339]

3 hours ago, abw0004 said:

I agree with what you say also, but it complicates efforts when we are smack dab in the middle of both of those teams.  It has always been that way.  Auburn is having to fight with Alabama and Georgia for the same recruits in the same territories without much breathing room.  In the state of Georgia, recruits are naturally pressured to only go to Georgia.  Just look at the pressure Pappoe is facing.  In the state of Alabama, the majority of kids are pressured to play for Alabama.  Not always the case of course, but I would say our path to signing kids is significantly more difficult than most.  Tennessee is always in the background as well.  This is why I really applaud the coaches for going after Mississippi guys as I believe those are not as hotly contested but just as talented (in this cycle at least) as the in-state programs historically are not contending programs.

I agree with all of this. Well-stated. And I generally feel really good about our current roster and current recruiting class. Because of being sandwiched between two state schools like UGA and UAT, we cant afford as many misses. We probably miss on about two kids a year that we really need to get. If we can find a way to close on 2 or 3 more a year, we will hang with them. 

[Mikey 16,640]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

Right, and top end speed is what turns the 15 yard bursts into 40+ yard big plays. 

Exactly. It was top-end speed that made Bo Jackson extra special. Once he got that one step, he was gone! Normal backs get caught 15 yard later and it's not big, game changing play. Extra speed changes it into a TD.

[Beaker 2,457]

Tipping Point?  

I see the 2018 season as a tipping point with reecruiting.   After this we either continue to make up ground on UGA and bama (upside) or we start a slide.  We won't remain around #10 each yr in recruiting.

factors that will change the balance in our recruiting: 

1.  We have two sore spots in our performance on the field that hurt us every year, recruiting wise:  We don't finish the season well/don't win bowl games.   We don't know how to win early, big games.    

2.  We can't develop or manage RB carries to get them to the NFL.   

3.  Pruitt is gonna be a factor in recruiting Alabama at our expense.  

 

I think it's pretty simple, but these are real and casting a long shadow.   We can also fix 2 out of those 3 pretty quick - this year!  I think we fix 1 & 2,  we move into top 5 recruiting by landing 1-2 more elite players and one elite RB each year.  That changes everything....  

This is a very important year b/c factor #3 will be more pervasive next year.   Kinda like a parasite.  

[ellitor 33,108]

15 hours ago, ellitor said:

And a number of others in previous classes.

Not sure why my phone put No S*** at the end of this post. Apparently it has an opinion too. Removed the foul language.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

5 hours ago, abw0004 said:

One person that came to mind for me was Peyton Barber.  Not a lot of top-end speed, but had the bursts and ran hard every play.  Gave the most effort on the field for us in 2015.

I agree with the effort but he had a 4.3 ypc average.  He needed the speed.

[bg5 536]

2 hours ago, toddc said:

Who’s George?

Pickens.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, ellitor said:

Not sure why my phone put No S*** at the end of this post. Apparently it has an opinion too. Removed the foul language.

Haha, I was wondering about that one. 

[corchjay 5,311]

1 hour ago, Beaker said:

 

2.  We can't develop or manage RB carries to get them to the NFL.   

What???  Haven’t all our “starters” the past few years made it to the league except Bubba?  His issue wasn’t just lack of talent for the NFL but his head was to far up his tail.

The rest have gone on to be on NFL rosters. What they do when they get there is up to them.

[aujeff11 6,243]

On 7/8/2018 at 7:14 PM, Auburn2Eugene said:

@aujeff11 and @GwillMac6

Yall sure we are talking about the same person? 

http://recruiting.blog.ajc.com/2014/08/06/trent-thompson-nations-no-1-prospect-to-announce-at-7-p-m-tuesday/

 

On a different note, while trying to find out about what Jeff and GWill were talking about, I see Thompson was the first ever nation's #1 recruit to go undrafted. 

https://herosports.com/nfl-draft/trenton-thompson-signs-browns-recruiting-undrafted-ahah

As for our class, I really hope we hang on to Pickens, and get Haselwood and Cain. 

Thompson was just cut. He made a bad decision to leave early for the NFL.

[toddc 13,194]

https://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2018/07/auburn_exceeds_expectations_fo.html#incart_river_mobile_index

High praise for coach Brown by Cam’ron Kelly, 4* dB from Virginia!

One thing that clearly stood out to Kelly was Auburn safeties coach Greg Brown's history of coaching three Jim Thorpe Award winners.

"If you want to come win a Jim Thorpe Award this is the place to be," Kelly said. "I mean, you go in the ACC and you can have the same stats as a dude from Auburn and you're up in the running against an SEC West team. You already know who the award's going to."

Edited July 31, 2018 by toddc

[mcgufcm 4,107]

The narrative that we run guys into the ground makes me laugh. People (including me) said the exact same thing about Nick Saban and Alabama at the start of his run. He beat guys into the ground. He took years off their career. Blah blah blah. You know what he did? He put them on the map. He ran the crap out of them, and teams ate it up. Nothing about our usage derailed Pettway's career. Pettway derailed Pettway's career. Nothing about our usage hurt Kerryon's career prospects. He wasn't even on the draft radar at all before last season. He should be thanking Gus and Chip and Tim every day because the second round never happens without their call to feature him week in, week out. Before last year, he was an injury-prone RB with athleticism but without the ability to be "the man." 

The only thing we have to do is continue to feature different types of running backs every year and keep turning them into stars. Think about this:  Gus' offense, at various times, has featured Ben Tate, Mike Dyer, Onterio McCalebb, Tre Mason, Cameron Artis-Payne, Peyton Barber, Kam Pettway, and Kerryon Johnson. I don't care where you look, you won't find a more diverse set of backs having wildly successful careers in the same system. Keep doing that and the stupid narratives go away. We didn't run Kerryon Johnson any more than any predecessor, and people weren't saying this crap with Mason or Artis-Payne (both had heavier work loads and didn't get hurt... which is the only thing driving the narrative).

This is negative recruiting at its finest. Don't look at the big picture. Ignore that any type of RB can lead the SEC in rushing in this offense. Ignore the fact that the only reason Gus hasn't had a string of high draft picks is guys losing their damn minds (I'm looking at you, Mike Dyer and Kam Pettway).

Personally, I'm not worried. Asa Martin is just as good a prospect as Kerryon Johnson or Tre Mason or Ben Tate. Whether it's this year or next or the next, he's going to be a star at Auburn. Kam Martin is probably going to look fantastic this year too. And we'll sign someone else who will thrive in this offense through talent or hard work or both.

For folks who care, here are the per season carries for Gus' top RBs (* for the season Gus was away from Auburn):

KJ - 285 / 182 / 52
KP - 76 / 209 / 0
PB - 238 / 10 / 0
CAP - 303 / 91
TM - 313 / 171* / 28
MD - 242 / 182
OM - 94* / 112 / 95 / 105
BT - 263

Other fellas:

Corey Grant - 60 / 66 / 9*
Nick Marshall - 153 / 172
Cam Newton - 264
Kam Martin - 74 / 44

All I can say is (1) Kam Martin better buckle his chin strap and get ready to be famous and (2) we're going to be okay in RB recruiting. If you're big and slow, we'll make it work. If you're small and fast, we'll make it work. If you're top-level talent, we'll make it work.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

For comparison, here are the numbers for Nick Saban's RBs until the Jalen Hurts era (when a QB has had the most carries).

Coffee - 233 / 129
MI - 158 / 271 / 143
TR - 283 / 112 / 145
EL - 204 / 95 / 56
TJY - 194 / 207 / 175
Drake - 77 / 22 / 92 / 42
DH - 395 / 172 / 35

So we run our guys "into the ground"; yet, Kerryon's single season high is significantly less than Henry and Mason and falls with 15 carries of Ingram, Artis-Payne, and Newton. And his three-year total carries would be the fifth highest three year stretch at Alabama from 2007-15. Funny how that over-use narrative goes away when you just keep cranking out great season after great season.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

He should be thanking Gus and Chip and Tim every day because the second round never happens without their call to feature him week in, week out.

Or maybe he goes to a school with a better, more balanced offense, only runs the ball 150 times at 5.7 per instead of 4.9, shows up on screen with the same amount of talent- such as the Leveon Bell impersonation, which he taught himself- and a lot more tread on the tires, and he still goes in the 2nd round and quite possibly higher. 

Does he owe the coaches or do they owe him? Seems they were well and truly effed after the injury against bama, no?

Also, if Gus's system is so great for the RBs' pro careers, how come he's only had 3 guys go in the top 3 rounds in 8 years as OC or HC? All of our main rivals have easily eclipsed that in the last 5 years. uga and bama have both done it in a single draft. 

And all this "Kam can be famous in 2018" talk is just further evidence that Gus should be questioned not playing him in 2017. 

 

[mcgufcm 4,107]

I don't disagree that he should abandon nicked up players faster. That's my knock on Gus. He gets too attached to what he trusts and is too slow to trust the system. But the proof is in the numbers. Find me a single season where Gus failed to have a very, very good running game, regardless of what type of running back was the feature guy, and I'll find you Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. The system has never failed.

Don't get me wrong. I think the player is the most important piece in any success story. We often talk about "player development" and it's true. To some extent. Most of the "player development" piece is getting guys to give you want they already have. If a player works hard, he deserves most of the credit. Gus didn't "make" Kerryon, but without a season as a feature back, Detroit doesn't take him in the second round. That's just reality. He wasn't going to run a faster 40 or have been shuttle times with fewer miles on the tires. But showing that he could be the feature back, that mattered.

At the end of the year, we were too reliant on him. No argument there. We should've been more willing to shift to Kam Martin. I think if Pettway had been available, we would've balanced that situation better because there was already familiarity there. We'll never know. But it's just silly to say we run guys into the ground when the numbers are what they are. Did we run Pettway into the ground at 209 carries? Did we run Barber into the ground at 238? If how we used Kerryon was so poor, were people claiming the same injustice around Artis-Payne in 2014? And good heavens, what about Derrick Henry's last year? Or Mark Ingram's Heisman season, did he get run into the ground?

Nick Chubb had 447 carries over his junior and senior seasons. Kerryon had 467 carries in the same time. Did Kirby run Chubb into the ground or was it the 20 extra carries that broke the camel's back? The reality is, Kerryon got hurt at the end of the season. Nothing more. If he'd stayed healthy, no one would've said we misused him.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

And for further comparison, Sony Michel had 526 carries over the last three years. More than Kerryon (518 carries). He must be pretty pissed at how UGA ran him into the ground during his career. ? It's a narrative for negative recruiting. Nothing more.

Edited July 31, 2018 by mcgufcm

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

3 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

I don't disagree that he should abandon nicked up players faster. That's my knock on Gus. He gets too attached to what he trusts and is too slow to trust the system. But the proof is in the numbers. Find me a single season where Gus failed to have a very, very good running game, regardless of what type of running back was the feature guy, and I'll find you Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. The system has never failed.

Don't get me wrong. I think the player is the most important piece in any success story. We often talk about "player development" and it's true. To some extent. Most of the "player development" piece is getting guys to give you want they already have. If a player works hard, he deserves most of the credit. Gus didn't "make" Kerryon, but without a season as a feature back, Detroit doesn't take him in the second round. That's just reality. He wasn't going to run a faster 40 or have been shuttle times with fewer miles on the tires. But showing that he could be the feature back, that mattered.

At the end of the year, we were too reliant on him. No argument there. We should've been more willing to shift to Kam Martin. I think if Pettway had been available, we would've balanced that situation better because there was already familiarity there. We'll never know. But it's just silly to say we run guys into the ground when the numbers are what they are. Did we run Pettway into the ground at 209 carries? Did we run Barber into the ground at 238? If how we used Kerryon was so poor, were people claiming the same injustice around Artis-Payne in 2014? And good heavens, what about Derrick Henry's last year? Or Mark Ingram's Heisman season, did he get run into the ground?

Nick Chubb had 447 carries over his junior and senior seasons. Kerryon had 467 carries in the same time. Did Kirby run Chubb into the ground or was it the 20 extra carries that broke the camel's back? The reality is, Kerryon got hurt at the end of the season. Nothing more. If he'd stayed healthy, no one would've said we misused him.

Couple things here.  Chubb played in more games than KJ and still had less carries.  KJ had the fewest yards per carry, this year and last year, than any back since Ben Tate in 2008.  You keep saying we have a highly productive running game.  we do not have a highly productive running game right now.  We have guys that have to run a ton more than others to get the same yardage.  High production would be KJ getting 5.9 per carry for 1681 yards not 4.9 per carry for 1396.  A highly productive run game would be 3 guys with 3000+ yards not 3 guys with 2300.  Our numbers look successful due to the amount of carries it takes to achieve those numbers.  If you are a GM are you taking a kid with 6+ yards per carry who had 150 yards less than the SEC's leading rusher or the kid who had 4.9 yards per carry with 100 more touches and is SEC's leading rusher?

[AuburnNTexas 7,157]

10 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

I don't disagree that he should abandon nicked up players faster. That's my knock on Gus. He gets too attached to what he trusts and is too slow to trust the system. But the proof is in the numbers. Find me a single season where Gus failed to have a very, very good running game, regardless of what type of running back was the feature guy, and I'll find you Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. The system has never failed.

Don't get me wrong. I think the player is the most important piece in any success story. We often talk about "player development" and it's true. To some extent. Most of the "player development" piece is getting guys to give you want they already have. If a player works hard, he deserves most of the credit. Gus didn't "make" Kerryon, but without a season as a feature back, Detroit doesn't take him in the second round. That's just reality. He wasn't going to run a faster 40 or have been shuttle times with fewer miles on the tires. But showing that he could be the feature back, that mattered.

At the end of the year, we were too reliant on him. No argument there. We should've been more willing to shift to Kam Martin. I think if Pettway had been available, we would've balanced that situation better because there was already familiarity there. We'll never know. But it's just silly to say we run guys into the ground when the numbers are what they are. Did we run Pettway into the ground at 209 carries? Did we run Barber into the ground at 238? If how we used Kerryon was so poor, were people claiming the same injustice around Artis-Payne in 2014? And good heavens, what about Derrick Henry's last year? Or Mark Ingram's Heisman season, did he get run into the ground?

Nick Chubb had 447 carries over his junior and senior seasons. Kerryon had 467 carries in the same time. Did Kirby run Chubb into the ground or was it the 20 extra carries that broke the camel's back? The reality is, Kerryon got hurt at the end of the season. Nothing more. If he'd stayed healthy, no one would've said we misused him.

Please quit backing up your arguments with facts. It gets in the way of a good discussion. LOL

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

5 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

And for further comparison, Sony Michel had 526 carries over the last three years. More than Kerryon (518 carries). He must be pretty pissed at how UGA ran him into the ground during his career. ? It's a narrative for negative recruiting. Nothing more.

Sony never had more than 218 in a year and was at 156 and 152 the other two years.  To further show that you are wrong KJ only had 52 rushes his first year.  So KJ almost had equal attempts in 2 years compared to Sony's 3.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

So was UGA overusing Chubb the last two years? Or we’re those 20 extra carries in two years too much?

[McLoofus 35,182]

Compare Chubb's and Michel's average carries per game to KJ's over that stretch. Kerryon missed a LOT of games the last 2 seasons and was a true freshman sharing the backfield with Peyton Barber, Jovon Robinson and Roc Thomas in 2015.

KJ owes Gus no gratitude for featuring the best RB on the team, nor does it make Gus particularly intelligent.

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Sony never had more than 218 in a year and was at 156 and 152 the other two years.  To further show that you are wrong KJ only had 52 rushes his first year.  So KJ almost had equal attempts in 2 years compared to Sony's 3.

Still, you cannot say that Sony had less mileage....What’s the point of this argument? 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

3 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

So was UGA overusing Chubb the last two years? Or we’re those 20 extra carries in two years too much?

Chubb played in 49 games compared to KJ's 36.  

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

3 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Still, you cannot say that Sony had less mileage....What’s the point of this argument? 

This whole argument has been too much in one year.  Sony had almost the same amount of carries in 3 years that KJ had in 2.

[aujeff11 6,243]

30 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

We have guys that have to run a ton more than others to get the same yardage.

This is not a RB philosophy issue.

We really didn’t have any HR hitters that could pass block last year. When Kerryon Johnson’s claim to fame is being patient behnd the line like Leveon, that’s not going to open up big runs. Why? Because said patience is also allowing the defense the time to gang tackle before the back can throttle up. 

What did you say when CAP ran for 1600 yards? Did we run him into the ground?

Edited July 31, 2018 by aujeff11