aujeff11 6,243 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said: This whole argument has been too much in one year. Sony had almost the same amount of carries in 3 years that KJ had in 2. But was it too much in one year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGATiger 1,801 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: This is not a RB philosophy issue. What did you say when CAP for 1600 yards btw? We really didn’t have any HR hitters that could pass block last year?? When Kerryon Johnson’s claim to fame is being patient behnd the line like Leveon, that’s not going to open up big runs. Why? Because said patience is also allowing the defense the time to gang tackle before the back can throttle up. Huh! I am not understanding what you were asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said: Huh! I am not understanding what you were asking. Fixed my post for you. I asked if you had similar thoughts with CAP’s great season? But really, the whole paragraph was explaining that we had a back that wasn’t going to rack up huge ypc numbers because of his running style. I don’t understand your reasoning behind assuming low ypc is the product of overuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgufcm 4,107 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 We'll have to agree to disagree. UGA had inflated per carry averages for two reasons: (1) they had rare talent at the position and (2) they had a very effective passing game. The same two guys (Chubb and Michel) combined for a 5.24 ypc a year earlier. Why? The line wasn't as good, and Eason didn't scare people. As for the wear and tear discussion, I think carries per season is the right way to measure it. I don't care if you played 5 games or 15. How many carries did you have that season? If you want to cut it more finely to make your point, feel free, but you're not convincing me with that. Kerryon's carries over his career were not out of line with other top backs in the SEC. Kerryon's carries over the last two years weren't out of line. Kerryon's single season peak wasn't all that crazy. The only difference is, he got hurt. If Chubb had gotten injured, people would've said UGA ran him too much during his career, but he didn't. So they don't. If you look at Kerryon's carries last year, they're less than Mason (313) and Artis-Payne (303) and a bump above Kenny Irons (256) or Ben Tate (263). I don't think any of those guys, Kerryon included, were misused or run into the ground. Kerryon just got injured, and we were too dumb to trust the system and play the other guys. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGATiger 1,801 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Fixed my post for you. I asked if you had similar thoughts with CAP’s great season? But really, the whole paragraph was explaining that we had a back that wasn’t going to rack up huge ypc numbers because of his running style. I don’t understand your reasoning behind assuming low ypc is the product of overuse. I posted earlier that Cap had 2 really good seasons at AU with 6.7 yards per carry in 2013 and 6.1 yards per carry in 2014. I am not saying that a low YPC means overuse. I am saying that KJ led the SEC in rushing due to the amount of touches he had and not because of how good he was or how good of a rushing team AU was. The lower YPC means that either A) He was not as good of a back as his peers who were within 45 yards of him with far fewer runs or B ) Auburn was not a great run blocking team when they were 4th in the league in rushing or C) the guy could have used a breather from another back so that he could play to his full abilities without being worn out or injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said: I am not saying that a low YPC means overuse. I am saying that KJ led the SEC in rushing due to the amount of touches he had and not because of how good he was or how good of a rushing team AU was. I’m sure KJ wishes he could’ve had longer runs. But really, our line wasn’t great at all and KJ wasn’t exactly bursting through tbe holes. The lower ypc isn’t an indictment on our coaching philosophy. 21 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said: The lower YPC means that either A) He was not as good of a back as his peers who were within 45 yards of him with far fewer runs or B ) Auburn was not a great run blocking team when they were 4th in the league in rushing or C) the guy could have used a breather from another back so that he could play to his full abilities without being worn out or injured. B I N G O it’s some of all of the above. Edited July 31, 2018 by aujeff11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGATiger 1,801 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, mcgufcm said: We'll have to agree to disagree. UGA had inflated per carry averages for two reasons: (1) they had rare talent at the position and (2) they had a very effective passing game. The same two guys (Chubb and Michel) combined for a 5.24 ypc a year earlier. Why? The line wasn't as good, and Eason didn't scare people. As for the wear and tear discussion, I think carries per season is the right way to measure it. I don't care if you played 5 games or 15. How many carries did you have that season? If you want to cut it more finely to make your point, feel free, but you're not convincing me with that. Kerryon's carries over his career were not out of line with other top backs in the SEC. Kerryon's carries over the last two years weren't out of line. Kerryon's single season peak wasn't all that crazy. The only difference is, he got hurt. If Chubb had gotten injured, people would've said UGA ran him too much during his career, but he didn't. So they don't. If you look at Kerryon's carries last year, they're less than Mason (313) and Artis-Payne (303) and a bump above Kenny Irons (256) or Ben Tate (263). I don't think any of those guys, Kerryon included, were misused or run into the ground. Kerryon just got injured, and we were too dumb to trust the system and play the other guys. I don't think we are that far off on our thinking. The talent disparity between Chubb/Sony and KJ is why I was using the YPC. Chubb averaged 6.55 YPC for his career compared to 4+ for KJ. My opinion is that we need to recruit better backs and more of them in a run first play action system. You can't have 1 injury to Pettway create an issue where you have to either play an injured back in KJ or rely on someone who has hardly any game time experience. The overuse of a RB is not only about the amount of carries in a season but also about having a game plan and team rely solely on the shoulders of one guy. Ride or die with KJ. In the end we got less with more of KJ instead of more with less of KJ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGATiger 1,801 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: I’m sure KJ wishes he could’ve had more longed runs. But really, our line wasn’t great at all and KJ wasn’t exactly bursting brought tbe holes. The lower ypc isn’t an indictment on our coaching philosophy. B I N G O it’s some of all of the above. No. It's am indictment on our recruiting philosophy in the 2016 and 2017 classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corchjay 5,311 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 How about this as well. Playing 5 games against some of the best run stopping defenses in the country. Compared to UGA’s cream puff schedule. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, NorthGATiger said: No. It's am indictment on our recruiting philosophy in the 2016 and 2017 classes. I’m cool with this. We failed miserably to bring in more workhorses. I was hopeful in Barrett but he’s just one of those guys that seem to be destined to get lost at the slot position. Edited August 1, 2018 by aujeff11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGATiger 1,801 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, corchjay said: How about this as well. Playing 5 games against some of the best run stopping defenses in the country. Compared to UGA’s cream puff schedule. Auburn played against 5 top 50 run defenses in the country UGA played against 7 top 50 run defenses in the country 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, corchjay said: How about this as well. Playing 5 games against some of the best run stopping defenses in the country. Compared to UGA’s cream puff schedule. Thanks. Georgia beat 10 opponents by 21 or more points. 11 opponents by 14. Many of them, way more than 21. Even Gus doesn’t mind using our reserve backs like Martin when Auburn is up a dozen and rolling. Edited August 1, 2018 by aujeff11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGATiger 1,801 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Thanks. Georgia beat ten opponents by 21 or more points. 11 by 14. Many of them, way more than 21. Even Gus doesn’t mind using our reserve backs like Martin when Auburn is up a dozen and rolling. Chubb nor Sony nor Swift were reserves. UGA had 2 other backs with at least 50 carries Edited July 31, 2018 by NorthGATiger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, NorthGATiger said: Chubb nor Sony nor Swift were reserves. If you really want me to, I will show you who UGA used as reserves and it won't be pretty Show me how many times Swift ran against us (game one,) Notre Dame, Bama, Oklahoma, and South Carolina. (The close games) Sony wasn’t a reserve indeed. He was a beast drafted in the first round of the NFL DRAFT. Edited August 1, 2018 by aujeff11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGATiger 1,801 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, aujeff11 said: Show me how times Swift ran against us game one , Notre Dame, Bama, South Carolina. (The close games) Sony wasn’t a reserve indeed. Swift had almost the same amount of carries in every game. Rushing Receiving Passing Rk Date School Opponent Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Cmp Att Pct Yds TD Int Rate 1 2017-09-02 Georgia Appalachian State W 6 31 5.2 0 3 18 6.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2017-09-09 Georgia @ Notre Dame W 2 42 21.0 0 1 -4 -4.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 2017-09-16 Georgia Samford W 9 54 6.0 1 1 10 10.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 2017-09-23 Georgia Mississippi State W 10 69 6.9 0 1 8 8.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 2017-09-30 Georgia @ Tennessee W 5 36 7.2 0 1 5 5.0 0 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 6 2017-10-07 Georgia @ Vanderbilt W 4 32 8.0 0 2 8 4.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 7 2017-10-14 Georgia Missouri W 6 94 15.7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 2017-10-28 Georgia N Florida W 4 8 2.0 0 3 84 28.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 2017-11-04 Georgia South Carolina W 5 22 4.4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 2017-11-11 Georgia @ Auburn L 4 18 4.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 11 2017-11-18 Georgia Kentucky W 7 66 9.4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 2017-11-25 Georgia @ Georgia Tech W 4 37 9.3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 13 2017-12-02 Georgia N Auburn W 7 88 12.6 1 3 17 5.7 0 0 0 0 0 0 14 2018-01-01 Georgia N Oklahoma* W 4 6 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 2018-01-08 Georgia N Alabama* L 4 15 3.8 0 2 7 3.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 Games 81 618 7.6 3 17 153 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said: Swift had almost the same amount of carries in every game. Rushing Receiving Passing Rk Date School Opponent Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Cmp Att Pct Yds TD Int Rate 1 2017-09-02 Georgia Appalachian State W 6 31 5.2 0 3 18 6.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2017-09-09 Georgia @ Notre Dame W 2 42 21.0 0 1 -4 -4.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 2017-09-16 Georgia Samford W 9 54 6.0 1 1 10 10.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 2017-09-23 Georgia Mississippi State W 10 69 6.9 0 1 8 8.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 2017-09-30 Georgia @ Tennessee W 5 36 7.2 0 1 5 5.0 0 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 6 2017-10-07 Georgia @ Vanderbilt W 4 32 8.0 0 2 8 4.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 7 2017-10-14 Georgia Missouri W 6 94 15.7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8 2017-10-28 Georgia N Florida W 4 8 2.0 0 3 84 28.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 2017-11-04 Georgia South Carolina W 5 22 4.4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 2017-11-11 Georgia @ Auburn L 4 18 4.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 11 2017-11-18 Georgia Kentucky W 7 66 9.4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 2017-11-25 Georgia @ Georgia Tech W 4 37 9.3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 13 2017-12-02 Georgia N Auburn W 7 88 12.6 1 3 17 5.7 0 0 0 0 0 0 14 2018-01-01 Georgia N Oklahoma* W 4 6 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 2018-01-08 Georgia N Alabama* L 4 15 3.8 0 2 7 3.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 Games 81 618 7.6 3 17 153 9 So he ran 2,4, 4, 4 in the close games.The other games, Georgia won by 21+. Georgia’s usage of reserves is nothing to write home about. If you’re wanting a two headed monster, I can guarantee nobody will disagree with you. We should’ve had one ourselves. Edited July 31, 2018 by aujeff11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, mcgufcm said: We'll have to agree to disagree. UGA had inflated per carry averages for two reasons: (1) they had rare talent at the position and (2) they had a very effective passing game. The same two guys (Chubb and Michel) combined for a 5.24 ypc a year earlier. Why? The line wasn't as good, and Eason didn't scare people. As for the wear and tear discussion, I think carries per season is the right way to measure it. I don't care if you played 5 games or 15. How many carries did you have that season? If you want to cut it more finely to make your point, feel free, but you're not convincing me with that. Kerryon's carries over his career were not out of line with other top backs in the SEC. Kerryon's carries over the last two years weren't out of line. Kerryon's single season peak wasn't all that crazy. The only difference is, he got hurt. If Chubb had gotten injured, people would've said UGA ran him too much during his career, but he didn't. So they don't. If you look at Kerryon's carries last year, they're less than Mason (313) and Artis-Payne (303) and a bump above Kenny Irons (256) or Ben Tate (263). I don't think any of those guys, Kerryon included, were misused or run into the ground. Kerryon just got injured, and we were too dumb to trust the system and play the other guys. I can respect all of these opinions. I'm less concerned with the injury thing than draft position, perception/recruiting, and our offense. We agree on the last part it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,108 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) Some people are missing the point here. While it's about total carries to an extent, it's more about the carries our RB1s get in the biggest & toughest games, which also have the most wear & tear on RBs. I thought we had this established last week. I'm surprised @McLoofus & @NorthGATiger hasn't hammered this home in this latest 200 millionth regurgitation of this debate. For the 3rd time here's the eye popping workload difference between KJ & Chubb & Sony in competitive games last season... Bottom line is for those people who think the notion is laughable that our RB1s get too many carries especially in the biggest games, laugh all you want. It's not laughable on the recruiting trail & that matters much more than any of our opinions. Our competitors are pounding us on the trail on the work load for our RB1s (and perceived injuries it causes) & lack thereof for any other RB to get competitive game situation carries. They are hitting us hard using KJ's comments (to back up their already negative attacks) of it being crazy Gus used him soo much & it being crazy for it to be done in college or the pros in today's game. Edited July 31, 2018 by ellitor 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUsince72 11,084 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Interesting discussion y'all. I have little to add except maybe -Hand / +Grimes will help the YPC situation. Now, as for running KJ (or any back) into the dirt while not preparing a viable back up to be ready when you finally break him... That's just irresponsible and stubborn and there is no excuse in it. Now as to how this pertains to 2019 recruiting? No idea. Just not paying them enough I guess... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellitor 33,108 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, AUsince72 said: Now, as for running KJ (or any back) into the dirt while not preparing a viable back up to be ready when you finally break him... That's just irresponsible and stubborn and there is no excuse in it. 5 minutes ago, AUsince72 said: Now as to how this pertains to 2019 recruiting? Look at the last paragraph in the post before yours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ellitor said: Some people are missing the point here. While it's about total carries to an extent, it's more about the carries our RB1s get in the biggest & toughest games, which also have the most wear & tear on RBs. As I said, nobody here is arguing against having a two headed monster. If you have them horses, use them. We cannot reasonably just plug in reserves in crunch time just because we are trying to maintain RB stamina. We can throw more quick outs, QB runs, jet sweeps, etc and they are just as effective. As I shown, even Georgia cut back the roles of the reserves when in crunch time or losing. As for our recruiting efforts, if Horton and Gus cannot handle these simplistic and reactionary criticisms, then we have greater problems than x’s and o’s, and negative recruiting. Edited July 31, 2018 by aujeff11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUsince72 11,084 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 @ellitor Love the new title!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgufcm 4,107 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I think it’s an indictment of our trust issues. We consistently underutilize backups. Gus finds dudes he trusts and rides with them, hell or high water. That’s not just at RB. I think we’ll see this year that we have talent at RB. Our fans act like we haven’t signed anyone in years. I think that’s wrong. I think Asa is going to be good. I think Kam will be good. We’ll be okay at RB. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, mcgufcm said: I think it’s an indictment of our trust issues. We consistently underutilize backups. Gus finds dudes he trusts and rides with them, hell or high water. That’s not just at RB. I think we’ll see this year that we have talent at RB. Our fans act like we haven’t signed anyone in years. I think that’s wrong. I think Asa is going to be good. I think Kam will be good. We’ll be okay at RB. You had me at trust issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augolf1716 21,221 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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