Amazing how pedestrian and flustered a great QB can look

[auburnphan 6,050]

JJ was a product of a failed coach.  He was never taught how to read a defense, cuz Gus did it and called the plays.  Soft, weak, pathetic practices always resulted in every single damn play going to the first read successfully and in perfect timing.   JJ was drilled to drop back and throw a perfectly timed ball to a spot because the spot was always there at the exact same time in practice.  Gus single handedly destroyed his development, literally made him a worse QB than when he enrolled at Auburn.  He ruined his confidence and self esteem in the process as well.  I will say that he is the only one Gus ruined, the rest he just failed them.

[rhughes 59]

13 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

No, they really weren't. Full stop. They weren't on par with the best in the country, but they weren't the primary reason for how bad our offense was the last half of the season. 

They were pretty dang bad man.  Nix also didn't help with some of his decisions but that line was mediocre at best.

Nah.

Oh, our offensive game plans definitely sucked. But that's not why Bo was incapable of displaying basic fundamentals of the position. Look at Jarrett Stidham. He had his issues, but he still maintained good fundamentals. 

But, uh... "that group of receivers"? Huh??? If it wasn't for Seth Williams, Bo would be a laughing stock. Anthony Schwartz will go in the top half of the draft. The other guys are on par with the receivers at any school not named bama. Now it's really starting to feel like you just really want to prop Bo up. 

 

[autan 737]

Almost every discussion about QBs turns into a Bo bashing party.

[TigerTale 357]

47 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't know how good Bo Nix will end up being.  But what I watched last night looked awfully familiar.  Tends to happen when you go 3 or 4 straight recruiting cycles without signing one high school offensive tackle (much less an elite one) and do a lot of settling for at the guard and center positions as well, while your biggest rivals you play every year are loading up on 4 and 5-star guys in the defensive front seven.  But I sure would like to see what the kid could do with a line he could trust.

It amazes me that AU fans are in universal agreement that O-line recruiting and O-line play have been a mess for many years now, but will then argue that BNs struggles have little to do with the O-line.

Yes, BN needs to improve, but if Patrick Mahomes can't even lead the Chiefs to a single TD with weapons galore because the O-line is garbage, then what is any other QB going to accomplish?

[cole256 17,065]

Forget the Johnson stuff. I forget who I'm talking too sometimes, let's say sw. I use Johnson because Johnson had to play the games with even tougher defenses later in the year but either or. Point I'm making this board took those guys down the ringer. I remember even pointing out the the o line play.....I was an idiot but for whatever reason now we coddle the QB......go figure

[cole256 17,065]

Also only here would Bo a guy who doesn't have the fundamentals down to plant his feet yet be compared to HOF QB's in the NFL.....

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

They were neck and neck with Gus's terrible offensive game plans and general development on that side of the ball.

Nah. 

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I conceded that Bo has issues that have nothing to do with the offensive line play.

It would be crazy not to.

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

But that doesn't mean the offensive line play was acceptable.

Acceptable, for Auburn, should mean "as good as any except for maybe the most elite in the nation". So no, they weren't that good. But there is no reason to mention them in the same breath as what Mahomes suffered through last night. Just completely different conversations. Except maybe the Georgia game.

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Whatever Nix's faults are, he was also plagued by a good amount of dropped passes right in people's hands, including from Seth and Flash.

There it is. 

(All QBs have passes dropped. All of them. Even by their best WRs. Julio Jones drops easy catches on the regular. There's no point in bringing that up when assessing QB play.)

7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't want or need to prop Bo up.  I'm just pushing back against the idea that he's terrible and we should move on from him.  

Oh, he's been terrible. Objectively, he's been a bad quarterback. But I don't see many people that have said we need to move on from him. Almost all of us agree that every player on that side of the ball deserves a fresh start under more competent coaching. But when it comes to the players taking responsibility for making things better, it starts under center. 

11 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

There are a whole lot of factors as to why this offense - and the passing offense especially - was so terrible that don't go away if Bo fixes all his mechanics and pocket bailing issues.

Oh, definitely agree about that. Hard agree. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, autan said:

Almost every discussion about QBs turns into a Bo bashing party.

Well, this is an Auburn football forum and Bo Nix has been Auburn's starting QB for 2 years and he's played very poorly, soooo...

Also, this thread was started to suggest that Bo Nix's problems are primarily because of poor OL play. So is it more okay with you to bash the offensive line than the quarterback? Especially when they have taken as much abuse all this time as he has, despite not getting any of the credit that he's gotten for his handful of big plays? 

[DAG 33,982]

Nix bailed in clean pockets. After that there is no need for the excuses. This is why the discussions go down the way they do. There are things nix are good at and there are things he need to work on. To point to one game and allude that to the trouble of our current QB is short sighted. Obviously if the QB doesn’t have great protection , he will struggle but our QBs with quality protection and without it . BIG FREAKIN DIFFERENCE. Also consistent struggles with QB mechanics 

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 minutes ago, TigerTale said:

It amazes me that AU fans are in universal agreement that O-line recruiting and O-line play have been a mess for many years now, but will then argue that BNs struggles have little to do with the O-line.

Yes, BN needs to improve, but if Patrick Mahomes can't even lead the Chiefs to a single TD with weapons galore because the O-line is garbage, then what is any other QB going to accomplish?

1. OL recruiting has been a mess, but their play hasn't been as bad as it's being made out to be. They're a very convenient scapegoat for people not wanting to criticize the Golden Child.

2. You're still making a very false equivalency between what happened last night and every single Auburn game last year. That's the whole point. Bo was almost never under as much pressure as Mahomes was last night. He just made it look that way. 

[DAG 33,982]

So did Bo Nix have a problematic offensive line in high school ? Because as far as QB accuracy , it was the exact same. Yeah he put up a lot of yards but he also had a lot more attempts

[TitanTiger 20,481]

11 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Nah. 

 

Quote

It would be crazy not to.

Well, that's what people trying to have an honest conversation do, no?

 

Quote

Acceptable, for Auburn, should mean "as good as any except for maybe the most elite in the nation". So no, they weren't that good. But there is no reason to mention them in the same breath as what Mahomes suffered through last night. Just completely different conversations. Except maybe the Georgia game.

They weren't anywhere near that good.  Again, look at the running game without Tank.  Then look at what we had in Shivers and DJ Williams and ask yourself whether it's reasonable that we go from one of the better running teams in the league to spinning our wheels without Tank in the back field.  A remotely decent offensive line should be able to generate a functional running game with those two guys.

I mention them in the same breath because they deserve it.  They got shoved around, pushed back into the backfield, or simply run past A LOT.  The spans of good protection were far exceeded by the much more frequent spans of bad protection.  The Georgia game was just exceptionally awful.

 

Quote

There it is. 

(All QBs have passes dropped. All of them. Even by their best WRs. Julio Jones drops easy catches on the regular. There's no point in bringing that up when assessing QB play.)

There's what?  I only mentioned the drops because it was mentioned above as a mitigating factor for Mahomes' having a terrible night.  If we're going to point it out for one, it's fair to point it out for the other.

 

Quote

Oh, he's been terrible. Objectively, he's been a bad quarterback. But I don't see many people that have said we need to move on from him. Almost all of us agree that every player on that side of the ball deserves a fresh start under more competent coaching. But when it comes to the players taking responsibility for making things better, it starts under center. 

There are some here that think he's just terrible and that nothing will change it.  

 

Quote

Oh, definitely agree about that. Hard agree. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Also, keep in mind that the broadcasters brought up Bo's tendency to bail out of clean pockets up during just about every broadcast the last half of the season. You could hear them practically rooting him on to just sit in the pocket and step into a throw. He couldn't do it consistently. It's not just Auburn fans "bashing" him. It's an objective observation. 

[cole256 17,065]

My thing really isn't about Bo.....he hasn't come close to measuring up as a 5 star stud program changer.....but ok. That's very hard to do and once in a generation type talent to do so. It sucks but it's no big deal. 

But the way we have been at countless other QB's. JJ bash worst QB ever (his one season stats comparable to Bo) completion percentage, td int ratio,.even when you look at their worst games mistakes....backward pass, Bo on 4 th down doesn't know to throw the ball tries to run......NM is a corner not a QB (more accurate than Bo) sw physically wasn't good, jf3 and Malik Willis didn't even deserve to run a play at QB (Willis looks to be much better than anything we've had lately) stidham is scary and doesn't care and all that........

But we can't even discuss the Golden child......talk about him needing to improve it's bashing him. I challenge anybody to find 5 posts bashing Bo from a credible poster on this site. Must be nice

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

They weren't anywhere near that good.  Again, look at the running game without Tank.  Then look at what we had in Shivers and DJ Williams and ask yourself whether it's reasonable that we go from one of the better running teams in the league to spinning our wheels without Tank in the back field.  A remotely decent offensive line should be able to generate a functional running game with those two guys.

I mention them in the same breath because they deserve it.  They got shoved around, pushed back into the backfield, or simply run past A LOT.  The spans of good protection were far exceeded by the much more frequent spans of bad protection.  The Georgia game was just exceptionally awful.

The run blocking was worse than the pass blocking, for sure. But that only had so much to do with Bo's problems planting his feet and stepping into throws under zero pressure. (Probably was incidental, truly, that he excelled more as a runner than as a passer.) Agree to disagree on the rest. 

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

There's what?  I only mentioned the drops because it was mentioned above as a mitigating factor for Mahomes' having a terrible night.  If we're going to point it out for one, it's fair to point it out for the other.

Fair enough. 

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

There are some here that thing he's just terrible and that nothing will change it.  

Huh. I see more of that in reference to the other positions on offense. 

[TigerTale 357]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

1. OL recruiting has been a mess, but their play hasn't been as bad as it's being made out to be. They're a very convenient scapegoat for people not wanting to criticize the Golden Child.

2. You're still making a very false equivalency between what happened last night and every single Auburn game last year. That's the whole point. Bo was almost never under as much pressure as Mahomes was last night. He just made it look that way. 

1 - OL play at AU over the past several seasons has not been bad?

2 - Not making a false equivalency as I am not comparing Mahomes performance in the Super Bowl to AU. I'm comparing Mahomes behind a solid O-line to Mahomes behind a sub-par O-line.  He looked significantly different...couldn't even score a single TD.

 

[Randman5000 4,228]

AND..... We're back! 

 

[auburnphan 6,050]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

 

But we can't even discuss the Golden child......talk about him needing to improve it's bashing him. I challenge anybody to find 5 posts bashing Bo from a credible poster on this site. Must be nice

I personally had the 5 posts covered easily, then you had to throw in the word “credible”

[NoALtiger 3,860]

A Super Bowl record 29 QB pressures and only 2 blitzes. Fantastic D-line play and really goes to show that even the great ones can’t deal with that of onslaught.  All those guys in coverage so no one is open and a D-lineman breathing down your neck. O-line was totally overwhelmed. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, TigerTale said:

1 - OL play at AU over the past several seasons has not been bad?

Not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be. Certainly not bad enough to justify the way Bo has performed.

More of a case to be made for the game plans and play calling. But even then, they don't explain his fundamental inability to consistently throw a football properly when given adequate protection which, again, happened way more often than many here care to admit. 

At the end of the day, it's more okay for many to criticize the offensive line than it is to criticize Bo Nix. I don't agree with that.

9 minutes ago, TigerTale said:

2 - Not making a false equivalency as I am not comparing Mahomes performance in the Super Bowl to AU. I'm comparing Mahomes behind a solid O-line to Mahomes behind a sub-par O-line.  He looked significantly different...couldn't even score a single TD.

Okay, but you're somehow relating that to other QBs in other games. There's some level of equivalency you're trying to achieve.

Bo Nix's offensive line wasn't overwhelmed nearly to the point that Mahomes's was last night, and his failures cannot be attributed to poor OL play or extraordinary defensive play- which is as much the story as KC's OL- nearly to the extent that Mahomes's statistical failures could last night. (Except maybe in the uga game.) 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 minutes ago, NoALtiger said:

A Super Bowl record 29 QB pressures and only 2 blitzes. Fantastic D-line play and really goes to show that even the great ones can’t deal with that of onslaught.  All those guys in coverage so no one is open and a D-lineman breathing down your neck. O-line was totally overwhelmed. 

THANK YOU.

What happened last night just isn't comparable to very many games that Bo Nix has played in at Auburn. 

[cole256 17,065]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

THANK YOU.

What happened last night just isn't comparable to very many games that Bo Nix has played in at Auburn. 

Hey man I noticed it's better to have two Pro Bowl wr 's and a former pro bowl maybe hof wr. And a hof tight end.......Bo doesn't have those so even the greats need that type of talent so until Bo gets that don't bring him up! Even the greatest needed that talent around him. Bo just had Williams and flash

[abw0004 10,113]

Interesting stat in defense of Mahomes:  According to NextGenStats, Mahomes ran 497 yards before throwing the ball or being sacked on Sunday night. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

7 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Interesting stat in defense of Mahomes:  According to NextGenStats, Mahomes ran 497 yards before throwing the ball or being sacked on Sunday night. 

Wow

[TigerTale 357]

18 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be. Certainly not bad enough to justify the way Bo has performed.

More of a case to be made for the game plans and play calling. But even then, they don't explain his fundamental inability to consistently throw a football properly when given adequate protection which, again, happened way more often than many here care to admit. 

At the end of the day, it's more okay for many to criticize the offensive line than it is to criticize Bo Nix. I don't agree with that.

Okay, but you're somehow relating that to other QBs in other games. There's some level of equivalency you're trying to achieve.

Bo Nix's offensive line wasn't overwhelmed nearly to the point that Mahomes's was last night, and his failures cannot be attributed to poor OL play or extraordinary defensive play- which is as much the story as KC's OL- nearly to the extent that Mahomes's statistical failures could last night. (Except maybe in the uga game.) 

 

My biggest gripe with the AU O-line situation is the way we have recycled O-line coaches, poorly recruited, and poorly developed. All this was done in plain sight of every fan even remotely paying attention and nothing ever seemed to change. Watching Mahomes in the SB  just reminded me of how important the O-line is to QB play. I won't argue that BN doesn't have his own issues (bailing out too early), but until BN finds himself behind a quality O-line that he can trust, I don't see him improving.