For those of you who think firing Malzahn for Harsin was a mistake

[Mikey 16,779]

10 hours ago, Beaker said:

I want to go back a page and without calling anyone out,  I absolutely start every season on the bandwagon.  I graduated from Auburn and love Auburn first and before the football program.   And I saw some special moments from Bo to The Big Hurt, Sir Charles and er, um The Rifleman.  I saw Ruthie Bolton and Kevin Green achieve greatness and while serving in ROTC simultaneously.  It would be easy to just love the sports programs from what I got to see.   Auburn taught us all to have a sound mind and good judgment.   Auburn builds special people....with special values.

I look at how Harsin is changing everything and laying the same kind of foundation that Pat Dye built, I will argue he is earning alot of  trust and the benefit of some doubt.   What he is doing is crazy hard and not the easy way.   He let most of starters from the DL transfer and look at where we are today, looking at the DL for next year:  that is a freaking scary DL room!  Maybe the best in the SEC next year.   Please don't say "that's all Derek Mason".   Stop it...

Even 2 seasons ago, I was all on board and publicly stated so, but privately did not have a ton of faith in the program's direction.   We lost some very winnable games this year, but all of that is not on one guy's feet.  No person of "sound mind" with good judgment can argue such or overlook the fact Harsin is taking a path that gives us the best chance for sustainable results (if he can be successful).    He has already made coaching changes and player changes, like hours after the last game.   He didn't stand pat and say, "trust the process  or we just got to execute better" or some worthless coach-speak.

Let's stop finding ways to chip away at the coach who gave up a job where he was a millionaire and a hometown hero and winning a ton of games.  Harsin uproots  his family from all this success in a vacation destination and moves to the deep south to lead a program sandwiched between the two biggest, cheatingest  gorillas in college football, and oh with the hardest schedule in the nation (read below).. I bet most of his family honestly did not know what state Auburn is  in.  I know Idaho don't have cockroaches and skeeters as big as we do! 

Don't forget, this is the most accomplished HC Auburn has EVER hired, much more accomplished than even Pat Dye.   He didn't forget how to coach and  I think he has earned more than just 365 days of leeway.     

(read below): when Brent Venables said he did not take the Auburn job "because of  alignment," I am convinced it is because of the division, recruiting  battles and general alignment within the conference.  Auburn does not garner any advantages regarding recurring schedules, rotating schedules, facilities, recruiting or such.  He saw how alignment and recruiting advantages helped build Clemson into a juggernaut.   I don't buy  it was JABA and we have pesky money people.  All programs do.  Auburn is a challenging place to operate and be successful.  But every coach since 1980 has won and won big at Auburn (either an SEC conf championship or undefeated season or better). Harsin will too I think. 

 Let's give Harsin  time to earn our distrust or  show us his inability to drive the program in the right direction.    Do I have some questions?  Darn right I do.  But, I caution us all not to be the kind of fanbase  that falls apart so quickly and builds a reputation where good coaches don't want to come because the fans won't support a building process.  Auburn men and women are better than that. 

This is a good post. Congratulations. Now, We all better hope this first year was a Harsin hiccup and there are better things ahead. The University is pretty much honor-bound to stick with him for at least three years so I don't know of any AU supporter who wants him to fail.

Now, I'll tell you something else that Auburn men and women should be better than: That's blaming every single thing that goes wrong on the previous coach. If the Gus haters were to shut up, the criticism of Harsin would die down as well. Keep on blaming it on Gus and you're going to get people pointing out that many of the things that were not right this season had nothing to do with Gus.

[passthebiscuits 6,889]

The outliers here are the Ole Miss and Arky games. Drop those two and we are 4-8. I wonder if we have these conversations. Win the Miss St and South Carolina games and we are 8-4, and we don’t have these conversations. Close out Bama, and we definitely don’t have these conversations. 
 

Harsin doesn’t have anyone to blame but himself about how we finished the year. He absolutely has to move the program along.

 

I simply think we (all AU fans) fall into a trap where taking one viewpoint chokes off all others. But several things can be true at one time. It’s just like medicine, just because you are in a car wreck doesn’t mean you can’t have Covid. 
 

What I’m getting at is this:

Gus left the program in shambles. We haven’t recruited like we need to in order to be winners in the best division and conference in our sport. He had to go. Our team and support was stale. 
 

Harsin believes that he can build a tougher and winning team. He hasn’t done it yet. His current resume does not build confidence. However, we are just going to have to wait and see if he can get it done. Until then, let’s not throw stones at the fans that either a) think he can get it done and just needs time or b) think he’s probably not the one that gets it done based on what we’ve seen so far. 

Both arguments are true. I don’t know why we keep debating it and calling each other out for whatever viewpoint we have.

is this too practical?

Edited January 3, 2022 by passthebiscuits

[DAG 34,051]

9 minutes ago, passthebiscuits said:

His current resume does not build confidence.

I don’t think that is true at all. That  is what some of us others are getting at. Maybe you don’t have confidence but some of us do as has been explained by several of us. That’s the crutch. I am not going to lose confidence in this hire after one season because there is enough evidence in my eyes that we can be a competitive and successful group. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by DAG

[DyeCampAlum 335]

Saban went 7-6 in his first year at Alabama, following a 6-7 season under Shula. By no means am I comparing Harsin to Saban at this point. I'm just pointing out that transitions are hard. We have some big weaknesses for 2022, but I see a lot of promising signs right now: tremendous late recruiting and a clear sense of buy-in from the players.

I was ready for Malzahn to move on. He's a good coach, but Auburn shouldn't settle for perpetual 8-4. (His Auburn record was 68-35.) But it takes an outstanding coach to do better than that with Auburn's schedule. Let's see if Harsin is that guy.

[AU9377 5,266]

13 hours ago, Beaker said:

I want to go back a page and without calling anyone out,  I absolutely start every season on the bandwagon.  I graduated from Auburn and love Auburn first and before the football program.   And I saw some special moments from Bo to The Big Hurt, Sir Charles and er, um The Rifleman.  I saw Ruthie Bolton and Kevin Green achieve greatness and while serving in ROTC simultaneously.  It would be easy to just love the sports programs from what I got to see.   Auburn taught us all to have a sound mind and good judgment.   Auburn builds special people....with special values.

I look at how Harsin is changing everything and laying the same kind of foundation that Pat Dye built, I will argue he is earning alot of  trust and the benefit of some doubt.   What he is doing is crazy hard and not the easy way.   He let most of starters from the DL transfer and look at where we are today, looking at the DL for next year:  that is a freaking scary DL room!  Maybe the best in the SEC next year.   Please don't say "that's all Derek Mason".   Stop it...

Even 2 seasons ago, I was all on board and publicly stated so, but privately did not have a ton of faith in the program's direction.   We lost some very winnable games this year, but all of that is not on one guy's feet.  No person of "sound mind" with good judgment can argue such or overlook the fact Harsin is taking a path that gives us the best chance for sustainable results (if he can be successful).    He has already made coaching changes and player changes, like hours after the last game.   He didn't stand pat and say, "trust the process  or we just got to execute better" or some worthless coach-speak.

Let's stop finding ways to chip away at the coach who gave up a job where he was a millionaire and a hometown hero and winning a ton of games.  Harsin uproots  his family from all this success in a vacation destination and moves to the deep south to lead a program sandwiched between the two biggest, cheatingest  gorillas in college football, and oh with the hardest schedule in the nation (read below).. I bet most of his family honestly did not know what state Auburn is  in.  I know Idaho don't have cockroaches and skeeters as big as we do! 

Don't forget, this is the most accomplished HC Auburn has EVER hired, much more accomplished than even Pat Dye.   He didn't forget how to coach and  I think he has earned more than just 365 days of leeway.     

(read below): when Brent Venables said he did not take the Auburn job "because of  alignment," I am convinced it is because of the division, recruiting  battles and general alignment within the conference.  Auburn does not garner any advantages regarding recurring schedules, rotating schedules, facilities, recruiting or such.  He saw how alignment and recruiting advantages helped build Clemson into a juggernaut.   I don't buy  it was JABA and we have pesky money people.  All programs do.  Auburn is a challenging place to operate and be successful.  But every coach since 1980 has won and won big at Auburn (either an SEC conf championship or undefeated season or better). Harsin will too I think. 

 Let's give Harsin  time to earn our distrust or  show us his inability to drive the program in the right direction.    Do I have some questions?  Darn right I do.  But, I caution us all not to be the kind of fanbase  that falls apart so quickly and builds a reputation where good coaches don't want to come because the fans won't support a building process.  Auburn men and women are better than that. 

I don't disagree with any of this really, but to clarify a couple of things I would just note a couple of things.

1.  Harsin almost tripled his salary by accepting the Auburn job.  Most anyone would have done the same if the opportunity presented itself. $1.8 million is a lot of money. $5.7 million is a lot more money.  Again, there is nothing wrong with money being a factor.  It is why most everyone goes to work.

2. I believe what Venables was pointing to was the same thing that Tuberville mentioned when he was being hired.  Venables was well aware that there was a struggle behind the scenes.  He knew that there was a faction that wanted Kevin Steele to get the job.  Regardless of who was hired, they would be hired and would immediately be forced to convince some that he was the right man for the job.  Venables wanted to start his HC career without that burden.  That is understandable.

[aubiefifty 17,304]

 why in the world do we give most coaches a couple of years and not harsin? and make no mistake the auburn job is a hard one. our two biggest rivals are the best two teams pretty much in college football right now. in the last games those two played bama has 17 five stars and jawja had 39. to me this says we will need at least another year or two to just get close. he is here so lets give him a reasonable amount of time to turn things around.

[aucom96 1,648]

2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

 why in the world do we give most coaches a couple of years and not harsin? 

Harsin is an unknown and doesn't have the benefit of a 2013 season like Malzahn had. 

He'll get his time to prove himself, but he had a bad first season. With bama and UGA dominating and Auburn having to depend on the basketball team to drum up any excitement in the athletic program, Harsin is in a tough position and he knew that when he signed on. Auburn fans want to feel excited about the future and there's not a lot concrete to see there at the moment. Harsin is very much not a Pearl kind of guy who inspires the fanbase, so he's going to have to produce. I don't think 8 wins in year 5 is going to be as forgiving in his case. 

[passthebiscuits 6,889]

5 hours ago, DAG said:

I don’t think that is true at all. That  is what some of us others are getting at. Maybe you don’t have confidence but some of us do as has been explained by several of us. That’s the crutch. I am not going to lose confidence in this hire after one season because there is enough evidence in my eyes that we can be a competitive and successful group. 

So what is your evidence?  Was it the 4th down away from losing to GaState? Was it blowing the largest lead in AU football history? Was it firing an OC after your first season? Was it absolutely blowing a winnable game against your rival? Was it your years of success at a midmajor? Was it only 2 of your top 10 recruits being offensive players and none of those are Olinemen? Should we just compare ourselves to Kentucky to feel better? How did the other 2 first year coaches in the SEC do this year? 
 

being realistic…what am I missing? Not being pessimistic, but geez I’m a realist. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by passthebiscuits

[Hank2020 3,228]

14 minutes ago, passthebiscuits said:

So what is your evidence?  Was it the 4th down away from losing to GaState? Was it blowing the largest lead in AU football history? Was it firing an OC after your first season? Was it absolutely blowing a winnable game against your rival? Was it your years of success at a midmajor? Was it only 2 of your top 10 recruits being offensive players and none of those are Olinemen? Should we just compare ourselves to Kentucky to feel better? How did the other 2 first year coaches in the SEC do this year? 
 

being realistic…what am I missing? Not being pessimistic, but geez I’m a realist. 

A realist is a pessimist if they don’t use positive indications to at least offset negative ones.

[passthebiscuits 6,889]

1 hour ago, Hank2020 said:

A realist is a pessimist if they don’t use positive indications to at least offset negative ones.

with all respect, that’s absurd. 

I’m very hopeful that our football team can turn the corner. Of course Harsin gets a chance to get it done. I’m rooting for him.

[DAG 34,051]

1 hour ago, passthebiscuits said:

So what is your evidence?  Was it the 4th down away from losing to GaState? Was it blowing the largest lead in AU football history? Was it firing an OC after your first season? Was it absolutely blowing a winnable game against your rival? Was it your years of success at a midmajor? Was it only 2 of your top 10 recruits being offensive players and none of those are Olinemen? Should we just compare ourselves to Kentucky to feel better? How did the other 2 first year coaches in the SEC do this year? 
 

being realistic…what am I missing? Not being pessimistic, but geez I’m a realist. 

You can read about it or look it up. I’ve posted about several times over. Anywho you can do you. Not looking for an argument especially since your mind seems to be made up.

Edited January 3, 2022 by DAG

[Hank2020 3,228]

49 minutes ago, passthebiscuits said:

with all respect, that’s absurd. 

I’m very hopeful that our football team can turn the corner. Of course Harsin gets a chance to get it done. I’m rooting for him.

I major on absurdity. I think your last post makes you an optimist BTW along with a majority of posters on this forum. Obviously just my opinion though.

[auburnphan 6,050]

A true realist would fail to see their own pessimism 

[e808 3,028]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

You can read about it or look it up. I’ve posted about several times over. Anywho you can do you. Not looking for an argument especially since your mind seems to be made up.

I think u put it best most topics are divisive or something to that affect. Some are more optimistic than others but either way this needs to work for Auburn. Because TAMU is quietly emerging. At least in recruiting anyways. War Eagle

[1716AU 732]

10 hours ago, DyeCampAlum said:

Saban went 7-6 in his first year at Alabama, following a 6-7 season under Shula. By no means am I comparing Harsin to Saban at this point. I'm just pointing out that transitions are hard. We have some big weaknesses for 2022, but I see a lot of promising signs right now: tremendous late recruiting and a clear sense of buy-in from the players.

Thing you miss here is that Shula left some pretty good ball players, especially along the OL, and Saban, sure as God made little green apples, NEVER played a schedule like Harsin had in his first season at Auburn.

[rockfordpi 91]

On 12/30/2021 at 5:58 PM, Rednilla said:

I thought it was a mistake at the time to fire CGM, I do think he will be successful at UCF. I thought it a mistake to hire CBH. However, those decisions have been made and CBH is Auburn's coach and I stand behind him 100% (as it relates to AU football) and hope all other AU fans will as well.

However, there are some unrealistic fans who will not be satisfied until they get us on the UT plan where we keep the coach on the hot seat and have a new coach every 2-3 years. These are the ones who think the AD can wave a magic wand and get any coach he wants to come to AU and then that magic coach can wave his wand and get any recruit he wants. 

Not at all saying we should not be right there with UGA and UAT. I am saying there are no magic wands, no shortcuts, it will take time and hard work to build the program to that level and whomever is the coach, we have to give him the time and freedom to do it.

FWIW, I thought it a mistake to fire every AU football coach since CDB, except CTB. In hindsight, it may have been time to move on from CGM. Not because CGM was not a good coach, but because the fanbase was so splintered over him that some selfish/idiotic AU people were actually working against him and were willing to hurt AU just to get rid of him.

[Rednilla 5,401]

16 minutes ago, rockfordpi said:

However, those decisions have been made and CBH is Auburn's coach and I stand behind him 100% (as it relates to AU football) and hope all other AU fans will as well.

This right here really needs to be the mindset of the fanbase, regardless of anything else.

[McLoofus 35,182]

16 hours ago, passthebiscuits said:

Was it firing an OC after your first season?

You mostly make good points in favor of pessimism, but I find this one a little confusing. In a prior post, you said the losses are all Harsin's fault. I would argue that stagnancy on offense in the second half of games was our primary problem. Yes, our defense was terrible in the 2nd half against MSU, but we also only scored 6 points in the 2nd half of that game. (And, IIRC, didn't get many first downs, either.) A huge part of that was not having a legitimate QB for the last few games. 

Anyway, I find it odd that the head coach would identify and address- or at least take a huge step towards addressing- a critical problem with the team and fans would consider it a bad thing.

Was it a bad thing that he hired Bobo in the first place? Maybe, but I'm encouraged by a coach who acknowledges and addresses mistakes that quickly. Especially when the fix is a guy who works for Pete Carroll and who Carroll basically calls a rising star in the business, and who immediately puts us in serious contention for a quarterback who could change the face of the program in our head coach's first full offseason. It seems almost prescient, doesn't it? 

At the end of the day, I just don't understand choosing negativity as the default setting this early on. At a minimum, this program is so different and so much more interesting now. That alone is enough for me to be happy. These conversations are fun again. (Not the conversations about NIL or the portal. Those are terrible. And, good gravy, it is amazing that people are still coming in with the same OL takes that have been passed back and forth since the Obama administration. Dear Auburn Internet Community, nothing could possibly be more useless than you saying anything to the effect of "we just need more offensive linemen" at this juncture.)

[AUwent 3,778]

11 hours ago, 1716AU said:

Thing you miss here is that Shula left some pretty good ball players, especially along the OL, and Saban, sure as God made little green apples, NEVER played a schedule like Harsin had in his first season at Auburn.

People keep bringing up the schedule yet want us to keep playing Georgia every year. Sigh.

[DAG 34,051]

29 minutes ago, AUwent said:

People keep bringing up the schedule yet want us to keep playing Georgia every year. Sigh.

I often wonder what you do for a living? 

[DyeCampAlum 335]

12 hours ago, 1716AU said:

Thing you miss here is that Shula left some pretty good ball players, especially along the OL, and Saban, sure as God made little green apples, NEVER played a schedule like Harsin had in his first season at Auburn.

Nor sure what you're point is. I'm just saying a 6-7 start is disappointing, but it doesn't make me feel negative at this point because we also see positives. There sure are signs of trouble for next year.

[1716AU 732]

10 hours ago, rockfordpi said:

I thought it was a mistake at the time to fire CGM, I do think he will be successful at UCF. I thought it a mistake to hire CBH. However, those decisions have been made and CBH is Auburn's coach and I stand behind him 100% (as it relates to AU football) and hope all other AU fans will as well.

However, there are some unrealistic fans who will not be satisfied until they get us on the UT plan where we keep the coach on the hot seat and have a new coach every 2-3 years. These are the ones who think the AD can wave a magic wand and get any coach he wants to come to AU and then that magic coach can wave his wand and get any recruit he wants. 

Not at all saying we should not be right there with UGA and UAT. I am saying there are no magic wands, no shortcuts, it will take time and hard work to build the program to that level and whomever is the coach, we have to give him the time and freedom to do it.

FWIW, I thought it a mistake to fire every AU football coach since CDB, except CTB. In hindsight, it may have been time to move on from CGM. Not because CGM was not a good coach, but because the fanbase was so splintered over him that some selfish/idiotic AU people were actually working against him and were willing to hurt AU just to get rid of him.

I greatly appreciate your opinion, and it is a good and valid one. And you are so spot on with your third paragraph. 

But I will ask this due to your first few lines:

How much worse would Gus have made the program if he completed his contract here?

In my opinion, and it's just my opinion after observing the past three years, it would have been worse than what Tennessee has experienced.  Vandy-esque. 

Then just how would the fanbase have reacted?

Harsin will need REAL time and patience to clean this mess up.  I get frustrated, like everyone, when you see the results of the MSU and USCe games.  But that is because of just where the last dawber left the program.

If you have never walked into a program that is basically a nuclear waste land, you don't understand that it take a bit to figure out the lay of the land, and just what the task will ultimately be.  Trust me, I've been there and done that, and the first years is scary as hell because you have to play with the hand that your dealt. 

That is tough.

Gus will leave UCF in the same shape.  It's his M.O.  Harsin will leave a program that is strong, but it will take time.

Auburn folks need to get over the Fast Food mentality. 

[1716AU 732]

7 minutes ago, DyeCampAlum said:

Nor sure what you're point is. I'm just saying a 6-7 start is disappointing, but it doesn't make me feel negative at this point because we also see positives. There sure are signs of trouble for next year.

I didn't think that you were negative, as most folks are, right now. I'm sorry if it seemed I was being negative toward you.  Not my intent.

But most Auburn fans tend to forget those two basic elements when thinking of the Shula to Saban transfer.

I was there and saw it first-hand. The REC had slowed.  That is all.  They still had some pretty good talent that just had a coach that NOBODY wanted there.  Mike was miserable.  So was his family. I always enjoyed watching Bob Witt try to calm Don Shula down, due to the attitude of so many donors toward mike. I also saw just how Saban and Co. recruited, and we can't get away with that.

And next year will be tough because Gus left this program in a wasteland that NOBODY wants to accept.  It is going to take some time to build the offense and the talent base back up.

We got a coach who knows what to do with roster management. Gus had no clue.  

[bigbird 60,596]

22 minutes ago, 1716AU said:

If you have never walked into a program that is basically a nuclear waste land, you don't understand that it take a bit to figure out the lay of the land, and just what the task will ultimately be.  Trust me, I've been there and done that, and the first years is scary as hell because you have to play with the hand that your dealt. 

That is tough.

Brutal...Ive been in that exact place an it is just excruciating.  Definitely a culture and  Jimmy's and Joe's situation for us

[1716AU 732]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

Brutal...Ive been in that exact place an it is just excruciating.  Definitely a culture and  Jimmy's and Joe's situation for us

I ended up with a heart attack in my first month at the age of 40.  Thinks about that.  I was ONE person.  I didn't have a staff, I had to build the program working 16 hour days (that GREATLY upset my wife and daughters) and bloody fly all over the Southeast recruiting, as only a small number of people knew me and anything about my career prior.

Sound familiar?

I promise, Harsin and Co. are working overtime, and they know what they are doing.

I left the program, after 6 years in dramatically better shape than I found it.  Harsin will, at least, do that.

Edited January 4, 2022 by 1716AU
mispelled in as is