Elephant in the Lane Train Room

[Hank2020 3,199]

37 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Liberty consistently plays and holds their own vs P5 opponents under Hugh Freeze.  In 2020 they went 10-1 with their lone loss on the road at #21 NC State, 15-14.  They beat #25 Va Tech on the road and #12 and previously unbeaten Coastal Carolina at a neutral site.

Last season they had two close losses on the road at Syracuse and a competitive loss at Ole Miss.  

This year they are 8-1 with the lone loss at #19 Wake Forest 37-36 and a road win over Arkansas.

"But it's Liberty."  Good grief.

I believe HF is good x and o’s coach. Curious about the recruiting prowess.

[tbone4jc 2,241]

32 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Liberty consistently plays and holds their own vs P5 opponents under Hugh Freeze.  In 2020 they went 10-1 with their lone loss on the road at #21 NC State, 15-14.  They beat #25 Va Tech on the road and #12 and previously unbeaten Coastal Carolina at a neutral site.

Last season they had two close losses on the road at Syracuse and a competitive loss at Ole Miss.  

This year they are 8-1 with the lone loss at #19 Wake Forest 37-36 and a road win over Arkansas.

"But it's Liberty."  Good grief.

I am well aware of his wins at Liberty as well as his losses. Hell, Gus is killing it at UCF so does that make him a candidate? Of course not. It’s the baggage that LF carry’s that is a deal breaker, unless you just do away with the Auburn creed? At the end of the day it is what it is. Real question though, has HF been a legit candidate for any other power 5 university since being at Liberty? I mean considering the success over the past 3-4 years surely he has had at least one interview right?

[DAG 33,983]

Gus is not killing it at UCF. Jeez at one point UCF was a bonafide playoff “contender.” Good gracious .

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Just now, Hank2020 said:

I believe HF is good x and o’s coach. Curious about the recruiting prowess.

The class before Freeze got to Ole Miss (previous staff mostly, with Freeze closing in the last month or so), they were 48th in recruiting (2012).  Under Freeze:

2013 - 8th
2014 - 15th
2015 - 17th
2016 - 5th

Now some will say, "But Ole Miss was cheating!"  First, everyone at or near the top in the recruiting rankings was cheating.  Ole Miss just got caught.  Second, what Ole Miss got in trouble for doing is largely permitted now under NIL, which Auburn is about to be doing big time things with now that we have our ducks in a row. 

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

When you say he will probably get a restraining order, that is a form of manifestation. I don’t have a problem with your “ethics.” My problem is with your BS analysis of what he accomplished at Liberty as a head coach.  Of course you don’t respond to that critique. Instead , you choose the low hanging fruit rhetoric those who don’t want freeze always use!

Because what he's accomplished at Liberty is irrelevant. For the sake of argument I'll agree with you that what he's done at Liberty is Herculean. And?

It's obvious we have a fundamental disagreement on whether or not Hugh Freeze's character and actions should disqualify him.

People have said he was a creep as a highschool coach, we know what he did at Ole Miss, and he is still acting weird at Liberty. It may be low-hanging fruit, but that fruit is pretty dang rotten.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

22 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

I am well aware of his wins at Liberty as well as his losses.

Then don't say stuff like "but it's Liberty."  That doesn't even makes sense.  Stick with what apparently your real issue is:

 

22 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

It’s the baggage that LF carry’s that is a deal breaker, unless you just do away with the Auburn creed? At the end of the day it is what it is.

I mean, his baggage is what it is.  He was cheating on his wife.  There's no excuse for it.

I guess the question is whether you think someone can fail morally and recover from it.  Is there any room for redemption?  Is being out of coaching for three years, then having to accept a job at an upstart like Liberty and stay there for 4 seasons long enough to prove one is trustworthy on a personal level again?  If the answer is no, well I guess that's it for you.  If you do allow for someone to learn from the wrong they've done, is that against the Auburn Creed?

 

22 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

Real question though, has HF been a legit candidate for any other power 5 university since being at Liberty? I mean considering the success over the past 3-4 years surely he has had at least one interview right?

I would say that most people wanted to see things play out for a few years at Liberty before jumping at the chance to hire him and I think that's reasonable.  I'm hearing West Virginia may be moving on from Neal Brown after this season and could take a run at Freeze if Auburn doesn't.  I mean, the man is going to get a job at a Power 5 school again - you can bank on it.  I would say this year is probably the first where people would be willing to give him that chance again - 6 or 7 years after the stuff that went down at OM.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

7 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

Because what he's accomplished at Liberty is irrelevant. For the sake of argument I'll agree with you that what he's done at Liberty is Herculean. And?

Well, I'd say that it goes to show that everywhere he goes, his teams do well and punch above their weight class.

 

7 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

It's obvious we have a fundamental disagreement on whether or not Hugh Freeze's character and actions should disqualify him.

Then argue that, instead of this silliness of trying to diminish what he's doing at Liberty.  Because that just makes you look ridiculous.

 

 

[DAG 33,983]

6 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

Because what he's accomplished at Liberty is irrelevant. For the sake of argument I'll agree with you that what he's done at Liberty is Herculean. And?

It's obvious we have a fundamental disagreement on whether or not Hugh Freeze's character and actions should disqualify him.

People have said he was a creep as a highschool coach, we know what he did at Ole Miss, and he is still acting weird at Liberty. It may be low-hanging fruit, but that fruit is pretty dang rotten.

How is it irrelevant ? That’s so silly. Particularly , what he is doing right now , this current season is remarkable. It is irrelevant than he won at Arkansas with a third string QB, who won player of the game when Auburn couldn’t even beat Arkansas? 
 

We have a potential candidate who played BYU, the same BYU team his Liberty squad destroyed. That proves to me he absolutely is qualified to be a coach for AU , particularly since he has won at every single level. My goodness.

[tbone4jc 2,241]

21 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Then don't say stuff like "but it's Liberty."  That doesn't even makes sense.  Stick with what apparently your real issue is:

 

I mean, his baggage is what it is.  He was cheating on his wife.  There's no excuse for it.

I guess the question is whether you think someone can fail morally and recover from it.  Is there any room for redemption?  Is being out of coaching for three years, then having to accept a job at an upstart like Liberty and stay there for 4 seasons long enough to prove one is trustworthy on a personal level again?  If the answer is no, well I guess that's it for you.  If you do allow for someone to learn from the wrong they've done, is that against the Auburn Creed?

 

I would say that most people wanted to see things play out for a few years at Liberty before jumping at the chance to hire him and I think that's reasonable.  I'm hearing West Virginia may be moving on from Neal Brown after this season and could take a run at Freeze if Auburn doesn't.  I mean, the man is going to get a job at a Power 5 school again - you can bank on it.  I would say this year is probably the first where people would be willing to give him that chance again - 6 or 7 years after the stuff that went down at OM.

1st, It’s not just the personal improprieties. Because of his choices, Ole Miss was a hiccup away from the death penalty.

Can people change? Of course,  but does that mean you give them controls of a top university program? To say they”everyone else cheats” does not diminish the facts.

He got his second chance at Liberty and is doing well there. Got a nice contract to boot. There are candidates out there with far less baggage and less risk. 

2nd, I believe I am allowed to have an opinion about a university and it importance as a program. Liberty is what, a second level university and they have some good wins, they have some bad losses also. It’s an opinion from my viewpoint. 

[TitanTiger 20,482]

21 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

1st, It’s not just the personal improprieties. Because of his choices, Ole Miss was a hiccup away from the death penalty.

Can people change? Of course,  but does that mean you give them controls of a top university program? To say they”everyone else cheats” does not diminish the facts.

He got his second chance at Liberty and is doing well there. Got a nice contract to boot. There are candidates out there with far less baggage and less risk. 

Ok.  Ole Miss got caught doing what literally everyone else was doing as well.  Is it the getting caught that makes you a bad person?

Plus, there wasn't actually anything that came out connecting Freeze to the cheating per se - or even that he knew it was happening.  But the extent of the booster cheating was big and as HC the NCAA will hold you responsible whether you knew about it or not.

 

21 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

2nd, I believe I am allowed to have an opinion about a university and it importance as a program. Liberty is what, a second level university and they have some good wins, they have some bad losses also. It’s an opinion from my viewpoint. Stupid though?

Sure, have an opinion but it doesn't jive with the facts.  It's ridiculous try and discount what he's doing there.

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

23 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Ok.  Ole Miss got caught doing what literally everyone else was doing as well.  Is it the getting caught that makes you a bad person?

Plus, there wasn't actually anything that came out connecting Freeze to the cheating per se - or even that he knew it was happening.  But the extent of the booster cheating was big and as HC the NCAA will hold you responsible whether you knew about it or not.

 

Sure, have an opinion.  It's patently ridiculous to anyone that pays attention to football to try and discount what he's doing there, but you do you.

Yep, I researched it and Danny Hugh wasn't guilty of the infractions himself. But he was guilty cause it happened under his watch. AND, Bruce Pearl got  a 3 year show clause and Danny Hugh got  1 year show clause from the NCAA. Those are the facts. So by the penalty who committed the worse infraction........

Edited November 9, 2022 by NWALA Tiger

[DAG 33,983]

 

[Gowebb11 9,322]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

How is it irrelevant ? That’s so silly. Particularly , what he is doing right now , this current season is remarkable. It is irrelevant than he won at Arkansas with a third string QB, who won player of the game when Auburn couldn’t even beat Arkansas? 
 

We have a potential candidate who played BYU, the same BYU team his Liberty squad destroyed. That proves to me he absolutely is qualified to be a coach for AU , particularly since he has won at every single level. My goodness.

I would add that he took Malik Willis who was third string at AU and turned him into a bonafide NFL Draft pick. The man can coach.

[Gowebb11 9,322]

13 minutes ago, DAG said:

 

Neal made some valid points. Cohen has a lot to think about with all of our current candidates. 

[DAG 33,983]

Just now, Gowebb11 said:

Neal made some valid points. Cohen has a lot to think about with all of our current candidates. 

Yep it is going to be interesting.

[cbo 7,851]

The truth is both Freeze and Lane are excellent coaches. This has been detailed ad nauseum on this board. Yes, you can nitpick losses in their career, just like you can any coach we could conceivably hire. The fact is either Freeze or Lane would be the most proven coach AU has ever hired. 

The moral/ethics debate is legitimate, especially as it relates to how either coach might have issues at Auburn. I personally get a bad feeling from Freeze, but Lane doesn't bother me. But that debate seems to come down to personal opinions and beliefs, so people will never agree.

I'm surprised we can't all agree that both are very good pure coaches. 

[MaxCohen216 514]

On 11/7/2022 at 1:28 PM, AUght2win said:

Here’s all I want to know from pro Lane people - has there ever, in CFB history, been an example of a guy who imploded at a previous stop but still went on to a consistent, long, successful career at a big job? 

Chizik - Imploded at ISU and later at Auburn. 

Orgeron - Imploded at Ole Miss and later at LSU.

Muschamp - Imploded at Florida and later at South Carolina.

Jimbo - Imploded at FSU and is currently imploding at TAMU.

Lane - Imploded at USC…

Seriously, how are people not concerned about this? Could he be successful at Auburn? Sure.

But it would defy a repeatedly tried precedent in CFB’s long history.

I dunno....

Our bag of top coaching prospects is froth with potential failures:

- Deion has no D1 coaching experience, even as a coordinator

- Lane has recruiting problems and is sort of a loose cannon with his mouth

- Hugh wants your daughter's phone number

Deion would be the best recruiter, Lane would be the best offensive coach, and Hugh would be the best overall (he's more proven than the other two at the D1 level), if he just didn't want your daughter's phone number...

[AUght2win 6,838]

2 hours ago, cbo said:

The truth is both Freeze and Lane are excellent coaches. This has been detailed ad nauseum on this board. Yes, you can nitpick losses in their career, just like you can any coach we could conceivably hire. The fact is either Freeze or Lane would be the most proven coach AU has ever hired. 

The moral/ethics debate is legitimate, especially as it relates to how either coach might have issues at Auburn. I personally get a bad feeling from Freeze, but Lane doesn't bother me. But that debate seems to come down to personal opinions and beliefs, so people will never agree.

I'm surprised we can't all agree that both are very good pure coaches. 

As a coordinator I definitely agree Lane is great. I’m not sold on his head coaching yet though. He may be the next Chizik or Muschamp - elite coordinators but bad HCs. 

[AUght2win 6,838]

5 hours ago, DAG said:

 

This is a great video. Illustrates why Lane is Lane and it will eventually crumble for him wherever. 

The guy won’t light a Christmas tree in Oxford, MS. He’s paid millions of dollars to basically be the face of the school and just straight up won’t do that aspect of the job. Shows a lack of maturity and a lack of respect for people. It WILL catch up with him like it always has. Even at Ole Miss. 

[AUght2win 6,838]

7 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

1st, It’s not just the personal improprieties. Because of his choices, Ole Miss was a hiccup away from the death penalty.

Can people change? Of course,  but does that mean you give them controls of a top university program? To say they”everyone else cheats” does not diminish the facts.

He got his second chance at Liberty and is doing well there. Got a nice contract to boot. There are candidates out there with far less baggage and less risk. 

2nd, I believe I am allowed to have an opinion about a university and it importance as a program. Liberty is what, a second level university and they have some good wins, they have some bad losses also. It’s an opinion from my viewpoint. Stupid though?

When you say “risk” when it comes to Freeze what do you mean? Paying players is legal now so it can’t be that. Do you really believe he’ll get caught with hookers on speed dial again? Do you honestly believe that?

[AUght2win 6,838]

7 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

I am well aware of his wins at Liberty as well as his losses. Hell, Gus is killing it at UCF 

Wut.

[AUght2win 6,838]

12 hours ago, The Freak said:

He last coached at USC in 2013.  Since then he's been successful as OC in Al, HC at FAU and Ole Miss.  How much longer do you need, lol.

The timeframe isn’t the issue it’s the refusal of personal growth. If after the Raiders, Tennessee, and USC he had said “you know what? I’m the problem and I’ve got some things to change” then maybe I’d have a different opinion. 

But he’s the exact same guy. He GOT FIRED before a NATIONAL TITLE GAME at Alabama. He couldn’t even cleanly finish what was inarguably his best coaching stint. 

The dude is who he is. Accept it.

[AUght2win 6,838]

9 hours ago, woodford said:

He wrecked Alabama’s offense from 14-16? We’re 2-1 against them but OM is in such a better place than we are. 

What exactly has he wrecked? Tennessee 13 years ago?
 

 

He wrecked the Raiders. He wrecked Tennessee. He wrecked USC. He single-handedly cost Alabama a national title. The only program who’s escaped unharmed has been FAU. Kudos to them. 

[cbo 7,851]

21 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

As a coordinator I definitely agree Lane is great. I’m not sold on his head coaching yet though. He may be the next Chizik or Muschamp - elite coordinators but bad HCs. 

Sure, he might be. But the difference to me is Lane has had real success as a HC at two different schools. One of which happens to be in our division at a place where it's more difficult to win. Much better track record than 5-19 Chizik when we hired him. 

To me, Lane is a unique case. Not as unique as Deion, but still unique. For whatever reason, he was given many opportunities at a young age that he had not earned and wasn't ready for. Predictably, it did not go well. I'm more interested in what he has done lately.

 

[AUght2win 6,838]

https://twitter.com/aidangallard0/status/1586733843888971783?s=20&t=TLPtCTKBoMgO1SBfQe1Y2g

This is the guy. I just don’t see it. But I’ll shut up - everybody knows my stance.

He’s still definitely a way more safe bet than Harsin was or many of the serious candidates from prior searches.

Edited November 10, 2022 by AUght2win