Is Anti-Zionism antisemitism?

[DKW 86 7,451]

1 hour ago, W.E.D said:

So 2,300 Palestinian civilians murdered by Israel and 10,000 wounded while bombing apartment buildings, hospitals, and fleeing civilian convoys is somehow no big deal b/c it happened over 4-5 days vs 1?

Hamas: Sneak attack carried out at night with no warning.

Israel: Attack carried out in daylight with leaflets dropped telling everyone to get out of the way with time to leave. 

Hamas: Takes civilian prisoners/hostages. A war crime.

Israel: Takes no hostages.

Hamas: Hides their militants in schools, mosques, hospitals, even behind hostages to increase the civilian deaths.

Israel: Comes in in broad daylight, no hiding, clearly defined military targets and civilian places. Tries inordinately to stop civilian deaths. Takes ZERO Civilian Hostages.

Do we need to go on?

Edited October 14, 2023 by DKW 86

[DKW 86 7,451]

36 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

I apologize there isn't direct video at the specific time of Israel killed 100 civilians fleeing their homes and following the instructions of Israel.

War Crimes are War Crimes.  Killing innocent civilians is Killing innocent Civilians.  Treat both of them the same.  There are two bad actors here.

False equivalnce.

[W.E.D 11,070]

4 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Brother when you come out of the closet with the full crazy, you come completely out huh?

Just acknowledge his own words.

"anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy—to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

“We have neighbors,” he said, “who are our bitter enemies ... I send them messages all the time ... these days, right now ... I mislead them, destabilize them, mock them, and them hit them over the head.” The suspect then continued his lecture: “It’s impossible to reach an agreement with them ... Everyone knows this, but we control the height of the flames.”

[W.E.D 11,070]

5 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Not Isis? Various acts of terrorism in several African countries? Genocide in Asia?

Kinda shocked at just not even including 9/11

[DKW 86 7,451]

1 hour ago, W.E.D said:

They only have the moral high ground b/c people turn a blind eye to them imprisoning million of people, running an apartheid state, and killing innocent people with out impunity 

And have every Muslim State in the ME deny the Palestinians passports, visas, work permits. You do realize that the only way these get to work is work permits in Israel?

Edited October 14, 2023 by DKW 86

[DKW 86 7,451]

2 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Just acknowledge his own words.

"anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy—to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

“We have neighbors,” he said, “who are our bitter enemies ... I send them messages all the time ... these days, right now ... I mislead them, destabilize them, mock them, and them hit them over the head.” The suspect then continued his lecture: “It’s impossible to reach an agreement with them ... Everyone knows this, but we control the height of the flames.”

Exactly. Israel has no other option with Hamas. They do not want negotiated peace they want only the death of Israel, nothing else. Read the Hamas Convenant. Nothing but dead Jews is all they want. I dont think the rest of the Palestinians want anything like that. 

[DKW 86 7,451]

9 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Just more whataboutism vs and justifying Israel's ethnic cleansing 

Once again, the only people here that openly, publicly, IN WRITING, and swear an oath to the death of the other side is Hamas.

[auburnatl1 5,111]

3 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Just more whataboutism vs and justifying Israel's ethnic cleansing 

Respectfully, you’re using a very very thick victim lens. Until Palestinians (all Muslims) stop whining, man up,  and control their never ending radicalization issues  - ground hog day. Btw what are the Palestinian positions on women, gays, religious tolerance ect.?

[auburnatl1 5,111]

22 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

He was more moderate after 2 years, but what before them was actually “extreme”? Gays in the military? Ban on sale of assault weapons (not confiscation)? An attempt at expanded healthcare?

We’ll debate it another time. It’s off topic and given the nuttiness I’ve read today - way too boring.

[TexasTiger 13,055]

7 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

We’ll debate it another time. It’s off topic and given the nuttiness I’ve read today - way too boring.

Ok, but the point is American “conservatives” have often thought pretty tame stuff was out there crazy librul.

[TexasTiger 13,055]

17 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Respectfully, you’re using a very very thick victim lens. Until Palestinians (all Muslims) stop whining, man up,  and control their never ending radicalization issues  - ground hog day. Btw what are the Palestinian positions on women, gays, religious tolerance ect.?

There’s a valid discussion that could focus on these issues without ignoring or excusing Israeli excesses.

[auburnatl1 5,111]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Ok, but the point is American “conservatives” have often thought pretty tame stuff was out there crazy librul.

I can tolerate old school “libruls”.  Just role of gov arguments. However, what I can’t tolerate is crazy.  Who has literally become a coveted voting block. Ok, so they’re radical unstables, but damn do they have high voter turn out!

[auburnatl1 5,111]

35 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

There’s a valid discussion that could focus on these issues without ignoring or excusing Israeli excesses.

That I do agree with. But a week after finding the horrors of Hamas isn’t the right time.  Emotions are too raw.  Also, if the Palestinians - all 2 million of them - would simply do the right thing and turn in the specific culprits this crisis would end quickly and then you could have the discussions you want. It’s time for normal to say “enough”, otherwise they’re complicit.

[TexasTiger 13,055]

10 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

That I do agree with. But a week after finding the horrors of Hamas isn’t the right time.  Emotions are too raw.  Also, if the Palestinians - all 2 million of them - would simply do the right thing and turn in the specific culprits this crisis would end quickly and then you could have the discussions you want. It’s time for normal to say “enough”, otherwise they’re complicit.

Over half are under 18. What power do you think people under the control of armed terrorists have? I’m kinda stunned to hear something like this from you. It’s not rational.

[I_M4_AU 8,014]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Over half are under 18. What power do you think people under the control of armed terrorists have? I’m kinda stunned to hear something like this from you. It’s not rational.

I wonder what those kids are taught in school?

 

And these schools are in the West Bank.  How do you counter this type of teaching?

[AUDub 11,184]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

I wonder what those kids are taught in school?

 

And these schools are in the West Bank.  How do you counter this type of teaching?

They’re ******* CHILDREN! That is not their fault! 

[AUDub 11,184]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

And these schools are in the West Bank.  How do you counter this type of teaching?

You don’t meet those expectations. 

[AUDub 11,184]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

You don’t meet those expectations. 

This is all an awful feedback loop. 

[I_M4_AU 8,014]

10 minutes ago, AUDub said:

They’re ******* CHILDREN! That is not their fault! 

What children are taught is very seldom of their own choosing. That’s the point.

[auburnatl1 5,111]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Over half are under 18. What power do you think people under the control of armed terrorists have? I’m kinda stunned to hear something like this from you. It’s not rational.

Fine, I’m in la la land. But just in case. do the math. 2m people -> 1m men. Let’s say worse case 150,000 men between 20-30. Roughly 2000 militants committed the atrocities.  .  I promise I understand it would be highly dangerous and they’re not symmetrically armed or trained. But a theoretical overwhelming ratio should be sufficient to say “enough”.  Just like 9/11 we/the Israelis simply can’t strategically solve the Muslim radical problem, only non radical Muslims can. You can either chose to be a victim “innocent”, or rise up and actually fix it. I may be wrong but damn I might have a point.

[AUDub 11,184]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

What children are taught is very seldom of their own choosing. That’s the point.

The big question is how do you stop it. If you reinforce those notions then there’s the next generation of the problem. 

[AUDub 11,184]

These kids are probably more familiar with roof knocks and sheltering in place due to a nearby roof knocker than I was with Chuck-E-Cheese at that age. It’s a good bet they know or know of someone that was killed in the conflict.

It’s a shame but it is what it is. 

[AU9377 5,061]

On 10/9/2023 at 4:42 PM, KansasTiger said:

The Secretary of State has been in every country in the region over the last few days meeting with those capable of putting pressure on Hamas to release hostages.  We have re-positioned a carrier fleet and have pledged support for Israel's war to eradicate Hamas.  What more would you have them do?

[I_M4_AU 8,014]

6 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

What more would you have them do?

Actually have our President do a face to face with these people.  It would carry more weight.

[AU9377 5,061]

17 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Actually have our President do a face to face with these people.  It would carry more weight.

With Hamas?  If the U.S. President flew to Qatar to ask for help, you all would go ape s*** crazy.