Hugh to take over play calling....

[imaolgatiger 523]

48 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think Hugh looked at the roster then looked at the rosters of our rivals, looked at the sad state of relationships with HS coaches in the area, and thought his most important task was to go full bore after improving this roster.  He thought maybe if he hired a couple of experienced coordinators capable of running their side of the ball without him having to be deeply involved, he could sort of assume a CEO role at least for the first 2-3 years, and be able to devote more time to recruiting, relationship building with high school programs, to the politicking involved with $$ folks at Auburn, and all of those things.  It's not a crazy thought.  It just didn't work as planned, particularly on the offensive side of the ball.  Ultimately it's his responsibility - both the results on the field this year, and for him to fix going forward.

I think the DC situation was something you wouldn't have predicted.  Roberts had a reputation for being hard nosed and abrasive, but it's not like there'd been a mutiny among his players at previous stops or assistants bailing and calling him impossible to work for.  He and Aranda weren't seeing eye to eye on how to run the defense his last year there but that was about it.  I don't think anyone could have reasonably foreseen the situation with the secondary players and McGriff.

So he's fixing the problem.  He's taking back over play calling and will hire an OC that's good with that paradigm.  He encouraged Roberts to find a new job and repaired the relationships with the players getting ready to bail.  Unfortunately the timeline didn't work to keep Crime on board but the bottom line is, he's not just letting things ride and unafraid to make the necessary moves.  It's not ideal to fire both coordinators after year one.  It's also not unprecedented for very good coaches to make big changes of this nature after their first season.  So neither is it a catastrophe indicative of a bad head coach.

We'll see how it works out.  His HS efforts in recruiting clearly panned out well in his first full recruiting cycle.  He tried something a little different given the circumstances he walked into, it didn't work and he's going back to what got him here.  Saban fired both coordinators after his first season at Alabama then had 4 years of stability at both positions after that (and several more on the DC side with Smart).

Great post! We have too many on this board that are too dumb and myopic to understand it, but maybe it will sink in for a few! 

[FB11 5]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

I think Hugh looked at the roster then looked at the rosters of our rivals, looked at the sad state of relationships with HS coaches in the area, and thought his most important task was to go full bore after improving this roster.  He thought maybe if he hired a couple of experienced coordinators capable of running their side of the ball without him having to be deeply involved, he could sort of assume a CEO role at least for the first 2-3 years, and be able to devote more time to recruiting, relationship building with high school programs, to the politicking involved with $$ folks at Auburn, and all of those things.  It's not a crazy thought.  It just didn't work as planned, particularly on the offensive side of the ball.  Ultimately it's his responsibility - both the results on the field this year, and for him to fix going forward.

I think the DC situation was something you wouldn't have predicted.  Roberts had a reputation for being hard nosed and abrasive, but it's not like there'd been a mutiny among his players at previous stops or assistants bailing and calling him impossible to work for.  He and Aranda weren't seeing eye to eye on how to run the defense his last year there but that was about it.  I don't think anyone could have reasonably foreseen the situation with the secondary players and McGriff.

So he's fixing the problem.  He's taking back over play calling and will hire an OC that's good with that paradigm.  He encouraged Roberts to find a new job and repaired the relationships with the players getting ready to bail.  Unfortunately the timeline didn't work to keep Crime on board but the bottom line is, he's not just letting things ride and unafraid to make the necessary moves.  It's not ideal to fire both coordinators after year one.  It's also not unprecedented for very good coaches to make big changes of this nature after their first season.  So neither is it a catastrophe indicative of a bad head coach.

We'll see how it works out.  His HS efforts in recruiting clearly panned out well in his first full recruiting cycle.  He tried something a little different given the circumstances he walked into, it didn't work and he's going back to what got him here.  Saban fired both coordinators after his first season at Alabama then had 4 years of stability at both positions after that (and several more on the DC side with Smart).

His mistake was giving the offensive reigns to a guy who he didn’t agree with on scheme. He hires Montgomery, lets him install an offense that Freeze himself said he didn’t even understand the terminology. He comes out and tells everyone who will listen that this years team is basically devoid of talent so he needs to focus on recruiting. When that team devoid of talent struggles offensively he immediately blames the OC in a press conference to the world. Starts meddling in play calling himself which confuses the team even further, all the while running two QB’s out there constantly just in case the defense wasn’t 100% sure if they were about to run it or pass it. To top it off, every play that worked, he called, every play that didn’t, Montgomery called. Did I miss anything??

[TitanTiger 20,499]

5 minutes ago, FB11 said:

His mistake was giving the offensive reigns to a guy who he didn’t agree with on scheme. He hires Montgomery, lets him install an offense that Freeze himself said he didn’t even understand the terminology.

I don't think he saw them as disagreeing on scheme.  Montgomery's scheme isn't radically different from Freeze's.  And terminology isn't necessarily a difference in scheme either.  Lots of dudes run essentially the same offense with different terminology.  I think as it played out though, Hugh didn't like the play calling - not the sequencing on how to set things up for later nor the decisions on what to run at times in terms of what our guys were good at and confident doing.

 

5 minutes ago, FB11 said:

He comes out and tells everyone who will listen that this years team is basically devoid of talent so he needs to focus on recruiting. When that team devoid of talent struggles offensively he immediately blames the OC in a press conference to the world. Starts meddling in play calling himself which confuses the team even further, all the while running two QB’s out there constantly just in case the defense wasn’t 100% sure if they were about to run it or pass it. To top it off, every play that worked, he called, every play that didn’t, Montgomery called. Did I miss anything??

It did seem to me that when Hugh got more involved in the offense, the offense looked better.  And that's what I was hearing from people who'd be in position to know what was happening in practice and in the game planning leading up to games.

I will agree that I didn't like the degree to which he emphasized the talent disparity.  I know Hugh leans toward just saying it like it is bluntly and that's an acquired taste for sure.  And he probably wanted to send a signal out to recruits that roster slots were there for the taking at Auburn.  But it went too far to me to the point of hurting the confidence of some current guy.  Just my opinion.

I'm going to give a pass on the early 2 QB rotation thing.  Neither QB was really separating themselves and on top of that he was trying to carefully navigate team dynamics with those who wanted Robby to be given a real shot vs getting people aligned behind the new guy while neither was lighting the world on fire.  I do think he's learned his lesson on that and it's why Robby is in the portal.

[Win4AU 4,054]

I’m glad he’s calling plays next year.  No more excuses!  
 

I get the roster wasn’t what it needs to be but it wasn’t as bad as the product on the field was at times.  Scheme and effort were severely lacking several times as well which I put on the head coach.  
 

I won’t fault Freeze too much on player evals year one because he and the staff didn’t have a lot of time to get guys in.  It was a small sample size against 2nd and 3rd teamers but watching Hank play in the bowl after what we’ve seen from Thorne all season was like seeing Sean come in after JJ and wondering how the coaches didn’t see Sean was the better QB in practice?  I’m sure Hank will get plenty of opportunities in the spring and fall to prove himself.  Maybe he isn’t much better against the 1s and 2s?

[aubiefifty 16,824]

1 hour ago, FB11 said:

His mistake was giving the offensive reigns to a guy who he didn’t agree with on scheme. He hires Montgomery, lets him install an offense that Freeze himself said he didn’t even understand the terminology. He comes out and tells everyone who will listen that this years team is basically devoid of talent so he needs to focus on recruiting. When that team devoid of talent struggles offensively he immediately blames the OC in a press conference to the world. Starts meddling in play calling himself which confuses the team even further, all the while running two QB’s out there constantly just in case the defense wasn’t 100% sure if they were about to run it or pass it. To top it off, every play that worked, he called, every play that didn’t, Montgomery called. Did I miss anything??

do you think it is possible that the PTB made suggestions to freeze? he might have been encouraged to except some guys he might not have been his first choice? it happens a lot from what i understand.

[Viper 3,132]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

He thought maybe if he hired a couple of experienced coordinators capable of running their side of the ball without him having to be deeply involved, he could sort of assume a CEO role at least for the first 2-3 years, and be able to devote more time to recruiting, relationship building with high school programs, to the politicking involved with $$ folks at Auburn, and all of those things.  It's not a crazy thought.

Not a crazy thought. It’s what I’ve believed all along. He hired a fired HC to completely run the offense and he reaped what he hired. Again, I don’t mind sacrificing 2023/2024 in order to get a foothold on recruiting. Top 7 2024 class. Top 3 2025 class so far. I’m completely cool with what Freeze is doing. Talent eventually will ultimately prevail.

[TexasTiger 12,965]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

do you think it is possible that the PTB made suggestions to freeze? he might have been encouraged to except some guys he might not have been his first choice? it happens a lot from what i understand.

He said he got his list from his agent.

[AUGoo 2,664]

I can not imagine this new era of coaching. 

Not only are you monitoring and  recruiting high school kids, but also looking around CFB for anyone who might be an improvement and interested in coming to your program.  And now, with NIL, you're recruiting your own team to stick around!  What a nightmare!  Somewhere , somehow you are to work in coaching the team up and monitoring your coaches to guide them. 

Feeling like these guys are earning their millions a little more.  Would think a GM model is going to emerge eventually and these staffs will continue to  expand exponentially.

[aubiefifty 16,824]

35 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

He said he got his list from his agent.

it would be hard for me to trust an agent.

[TexasTiger 12,965]

5 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

it would be hard for me to trust an agent.

Yep.

[Hank2020 3,212]

2 hours ago, Win4AU said:

I’m glad he’s calling plays next year.  No more excuses!  
 

I get the roster wasn’t what it needs to be but it wasn’t as bad as the product on the field was at times.  Scheme and effort were severely lacking several times as well which I put on the head coach.  
 

I won’t fault Freeze too much on player evals year one because he and the staff didn’t have a lot of time to get guys in.  It was a small sample size against 2nd and 3rd teamers but watching Hank play in the bowl after what we’ve seen from Thorne all season was like seeing Sean come in after JJ and wondering how the coaches didn’t see Sean was the better QB in practice?  I’m sure Hank will get plenty of opportunities in the spring and fall to prove himself.  Maybe he isn’t much better against the 1s and 2s?

If he was scout team QB they had plenty of opportunities. Scout team goes against the ones but only defensive coaches are watching at that time.

[CCTAU 3,336]

1 hour ago, Hank2020 said:

If he was scout team QB they had plenty of opportunities. Scout team goes against the ones but only defensive coaches are watching at that time.

Yes. But scout team runs a set of plays from a list of the opponent’s plays. It’s different when you get to run the plays you’ve been practicing every day. 

[Hank2020 3,212]

4 minutes ago, CCTAU said:

Yes. But scout team runs a set of plays from a list of the opponent’s plays. It’s different when you get to run the plays you’ve been practicing every day. 

Your correct. We are still at 4 in QB room so number of plays for him ate very limited. He will be penciled in at 3rd so difficult to break through.

[tigeraddikt 1,615]

2 hours ago, AUGoo said:

I can not imagine this new era of coaching. 

Not only are you monitoring and  recruiting high school kids, but also looking around CFB for anyone who might be an improvement and interested in coming to your program.  And now, with NIL, you're recruiting your own team to stick around!  What a nightmare!  Somewhere , somehow you are to work in coaching the team up and monitoring your coaches to guide them. 

Feeling like these guys are earning their millions a little more.  Would think a GM model is going to emerge eventually and these staffs will continue to  expand exponentially.

Dead on. Before the paint dried on the new Football-Only Building, I was saying that AU was already behind, in that we need another sister complex of the same scale just to be the Roster Acquisition and Retention Headquarters for Football Operations, not just a few offices for the OTV Collective and Recruiting to operate out of. There needs to be an army of analysts, programmers, web developers, accountants, HR managers, attorneys, psychologists, content creators/managers, social media influencers, and data entry personnel working around the clock to identify and target talent as early as middle school, create detailed data profiles on these athletes, their families, their hometowns, everything, and manage the data for the boots on the ground (coaches) to be in the best possible position to land the talent (coaching and playing) needed to win. And it's not just about recruiting talented players, but also the best coaches for the school/head coach/area of country/etc. 

[DAG 33,998]

Nick Saban is also a CEO type of coach. Nick Saban also is not just firing guys, majority of his coordinators typically move on to new jobs, particularly head coaching roles. He knows football but he also is great at his role. Hugh has never done anything like this. Nobody is saying firing him but it was a failure. And that is okay to acknowledge that. If it was a success , he would not be calling plays next year. It’s a lot of word vomit to avoid saying that. 

[TitanTiger 20,499]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

Nick Saban is also a CEO type of coach. Nick Saban also is not just firing guys, majority of his coordinators typically move on to new jobs, particularly head coaching roles. He knows football but he also is great at his role. Hugh has never done anything like this. Nobody is saying firing him but it was a failure. And that is okay to acknowledge that. If it was a success , he would not be calling plays next year. It’s a lot of word vomit to avoid saying that. 

I just don't necessarily see it as being any different than Saban firing Applewhite and letting Steele walk after year one at Bama (incidentally he also replaced both coordinators after year one in the NFL with Miami and replaced one of his coordinators after year one at LSU).  I suppose all those moves were failures.  Which is fine.  Better to cut bait and fix the issue than to stubbornly stand behind a choice that wasn't working.

[DAG 33,998]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I just don't necessarily see it as being any different than Saban firing Applewhite and letting Steele walk after year one at Bama (incidentally he also replaced both coordinators after year one in the NFL with Miami and replaced one of his coordinators after year one at LSU).  I suppose all those moves were failures.  Which is fine.  Better to cut bait and fix the issue than to stubbornly stand behind a choice that wasn't working.

Yeah they were, if they didn’t meet his standards. I don’t know what this fear comes from with saying that hire was a bad hire and a failed hire. It was

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Just now, DAG said:

Yeah they were, if they didn’t meet his standards. I don’t know what this fear comes from with saying that hire was a bad hire and a failed hire. It was

I don't "fear" anything of the sort.  I'm saying, it's not unique or even all that rare and even the best coaches in the game have done it.  It's just not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things unless it becomes some kind of repeated pattern.

[DAG 33,998]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't "fear" anything of the sort.  I'm saying, it's not unique or even all that rare and even the best coaches in the game have done it.  It's just not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things unless it becomes some kind of repeated pattern.

Who said it is unique . Literally no one. The problem is people are afraid to say the man made a mistake. Similar to harsin, if it makes some of y’all feel better then similar to the GOAT Nick Saban. Either way, it was a failed experiment. You can sit here all day and right books about without calling it such. But I tell you this , he sure doesn’t have another OC in , right? He is back to calling plays , right ? Would he had done that if the offense was a success?

[TitanTiger 20,499]

4 minutes ago, DAG said:

Who said it is unique . Literally no one. The problem is people are afraid to say the man made a mistake. Similar to harsin, if it makes some of y’all feel better then similar to the GOAT Nick Saban. Either way, it was a failed experiment. You can sit here all day and right books about without calling it such. But I tell you this , he sure doesn’t have another OC in , right? He is back to calling plays , right ? Would he had done that if the offense was a success?

You seem to be arguing against a point I'm not making and I'm not sure I've seen anyone else make here either. Was someone arguing for calling it a success?  Or that he was playing 4D chess?  I think what I've seen is people saying, he made a choice he thought could allow him to focus on recruiting more and that the it wasn't an unreasonable plan.  It just didn't work out in terms of on the field production and now he's fixing the problem.  

I mean, maybe somebody out there is treating it like some kind of masterplan that's played out to perfection and I missed it.  And admittedly I haven't read every post on the subject here so maybe that person exists.  But neither do I see it as some kind of catastrophe or something to get all that concerned about at this point in his tenure.

[DAG 33,998]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

You seem to be arguing against a point I'm not making and I'm not sure I've seen anyone else make here either. Was someone arguing for calling it a success?  Or that he was playing 4D chess?  I think what I've seen is people saying, he made a choice he thought could allow him to focus on recruiting more and that the it wasn't an unreasonable plan.  It just didn't work out in terms of on the field production and now he's fixing the problem.  

I mean, maybe somebody out there is treating it like some kind of masterplan that's played out to perfection and I missed it.  And admittedly I haven't read every post on the subject here so maybe that person exists.  But neither do I see it as some kind of catastrophe or something to get all that concerned about at this point in his tenure.

You did miss it. You can read the thread and find it yourself since you chose to quote me. 

[japantiger 4,051]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

Nick Saban is also a CEO type of coach. Nick Saban also is not just firing guys, majority of his coordinators typically move on to new jobs, particularly head coaching roles. He knows football but he also is great at his role. Hugh has never done anything like this. Nobody is saying firing him but it was a failure. And that is okay to acknowledge that. If it was a success , he would not be calling plays next year. It’s a lot of word vomit to avoid saying that. 

And I would offer that this model works for the most successful teams in CFB.  Throw in, as many have mentioned, that the HC job has gotten a lot more complicated in the last 5 years with the Transfer portal and NIL.  An SEC West job today is not Liberty or Ole Miss 7 to 11 years ago (where he averaged 5 losses a year and got the program in trouble). 

I don't get that HF couldn't get aligned with his OC.  Part of a leaders job is teaching.  If he didn't like what the OC was doing, them teach him how to do it better or how to do more of what you want.  That is what practice and scrimmages are for.  I never hired a leader for a role that I didn't spend a significant amount of time early on getting aligned on strategy/expectations and how do do things.  It's a basic of leadership.   

Now, if the person just won't learn or has a different philosophy; assuming they've been taught (which is doubtful in this case for the obvious reason that HF's response is just to do the OC role); then you get rid of them.  No issue with that.  But you don't then turn around and admit you can't lead well enough to find a top quality coordinator that can implement your strategy.  This is pure Jimbo Fisher bull**** and what got him fired.  He had his nose in play sheets and couldn't see the forest for the trees.  Many on here loved Derrick Mason...he pulled that nonsense at Vandy and it's what got him fired...he took over the defense after he fired his DC after the 1st year and it was all downhill from there (he was run ragged and the defense actually never got better with him running it).  The overall team certainly got worse.  

He's made his bed.  I hope I am wrong.  He's certainly not going with the odds.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

You did miss it. You can read the thread and find it yourself since you chose to quote me. 

Ok, I read it and I still don't see it.  

I see people who, like me, are saying that he tried something that was reasonable at the time and it didn't work out on the field (but did in recruiting) and it's right to fix that now.  

I see people saying the on field results weren't good but they're ok with it for this year because recruiting went so well.  

What I'm not seeing are people acting like it was a success and didn't need to be corrected.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[DAG 33,998]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

see people who, like me, are saying that he tried something that was reasonable at the time and it didn't work out on the field (but did in recruiting) and it's right to fix that now.  

So it failed. Got it.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Just now, DAG said:

So it failed. Got it.

So, you're still punching a strawman that no one was advocating for.  Got it.