Repent!

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

Well, next time I quote a "wacko" call me out.

I will the next time.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Now, if only you theists would keep your religion to yourselves and not try to impose it on the rest of us.

“Impose”? Yet you jump in head first arguing in these discussions. Sorry if beliefs come into the political arena. Welcome to the world. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Well, you've got to be pretty gone to accept the creation story as literally true.

But I'd like to see the percentage of people who consider Israel to be "God's chosen people."  There are members of my family who believe that and it affects their politics re: foreign policy.

You have to be pretty “gone” to believe everything we have happened by chance and a boom also. 
 

You do understand Gods covenant with Israel do you not? We have discussed it a length in other threads. You seem to be stuck or hung up on it. Sorta weird really.

[homersapien 11,387]

17 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Most people have believed it their entire lives, and had the literal story of creation taught to them before they even started Kindergarten. 

 I know plenty of great, overall smart people who are creationist. It's very, very hard to change such early, foundational beliefs, and frankly some people just aren't very curious or questioning, and just kind of go with the flow with what their Church, family, believe or tell them to believe without much interest in other viewpoints....

 

I agree completely. The more I learn about early childhood development the more convinced I am that the prevalence for religious belief is "programed" into people at a very early age.

But at the same time, I believe the capacity for questioning or challenging that programming is highly individualistic. (I sometimes joke I didn't get the "God gene" but it's really more of a propensity to conform.)

[homersapien 11,387]

17 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

My church is full on creationism, but at the same time doesn't necessarily believe that Jews/Israel are special or different in the eyes of God. Our belief was that Jews being the 'chosen' people was primarily an old law type thing and that Jews turned away from God and more or less lost their special 'privalidge'  and so now everyone, Jews and Gentiles, are equals within Christianity. 

Most people in my Church still heavily support Israel, mainly due to politics and wanting there to be a strong counterbalance to the Islamic theocracies. 

Interesting. I always figured creationists would naturally accept the literal descriptions of "end times/return of Jesus" prophesies that - as I understand them - require Israel to play an important role.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/

[homersapien 11,387]

17 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Homer Homer Homer . Btw so if all matter came from a super massive singularity explosion (big bang) 14.4 billion years - where’d the singularity come from?

I don't know and I don't mind saying it. 

I certainly don't feel a compelling need to simply make something up or to accept something someone else made up as an article of faith.

 

[homersapien 11,387]

On 4/16/2024 at 12:06 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

Other people like Homer choose to believe that there are non-religious elements at play in the creation. That science and human understanding can/may eventually find the real explanation for our existence that doesn't lead back to an organized religion.

Now that's an understatement. 

Last sentence is right on.

 

On 4/16/2024 at 12:06 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

Perhaps the truth is in the middle? Maybe there IS an almighty intelligent worldly creator that simply hasn't shown themselves to humanity and has not sought worship or recognition, and that we are not aware of the existence of.

While I admire your statesmanship and respect your apparent desire for conciliation, I don't think the "truth" of the natural universe bends itself toward such a blending of science and religious belief.

Perhaps we - or at least I - have not evolved enough to imagine that.

Edited April 18 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,128]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I don't know and I don't mind saying it. 

I certainly don't feel a compelling need to simply make something up or to accept something someone else made up as an article of faith.

 

This is a big thing! It's perfectly fine to say "I don't know" or "science hasn't figured that out conclusively yet".  

There is still vastly more physical and observable evidence of evolution/big bang theories than there are of any Religious creation story out there. 

 

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Interesting. I always figured creationists would naturally accept the literal descriptions of "end times/return of Jesus" prophesies that - as I understand them - require Israel to play an important role.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/

My denomination doesn't believe in the "rapture", and believes the end time Revelations have already happened and were referring to events around Jesus and particularly the destruction of the Roman Empire. 

My Church has some eye rolling beliefs on Creationism, but I think our interpretation of the "end times" are pretty level headed and studied a bit more seriously. 

 

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Now that's an understatement. 

Last sentence is right on.

 

Will I admire your statesmanship and respect your apparent desire for conciliation, I don't think the "truth" of the natural universe bends itself toward such a blending of science and religious belief.

Perhaps we - or at least I - have not evolved enough to imagine that.

 

HA, well, while I don't believe in the Bible and don't worship any worldly god, I do still consider myself an agnostic, in that I'm certainly open to the idea that some form of higher being or creator could exist out there somewhere. 

 

[homersapien 11,387]

13 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

“Impose”? Yet you jump in head first arguing in these discussions. Sorry if beliefs come into the political arena. Welcome to the world. 

So, in your mind, having someone question your world view - or simply expressing their own - is an "imposition"? 

I was (of course) referring to imposing religious beliefs into cultural and legal manifestations of society. 

And I am not required to accept "the world" as it is.  That's religious/authoritarian thinking. It also prevents progress, by definition.

[homersapien 11,387]

15 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

You have to be pretty “gone” to believe everything we have happened by chance and a boom also.

This is BS.  

I believe in the knowledge gained by science, not in magic.

If science is not perfect or final - and it's not, at least at the edge of discovery - I don't feel a necessity to invent magic to fill in the (current) gaps of what is known.

Edited April 18 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,387]

13 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

You do understand Gods covenant with Israel do you not? We have discussed it a length in other threads. You seem to be stuck or hung up on it. Sorta weird really.

Is this serious?

Of course I understand it. It's written in manuscripts thousands of years old describing Jewish history.

What I don't understand is why people actually believe it.  That's "sorta weird" to me.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

9 hours ago, homersapien said:

So, in your mind, having someone question your world view - or simply expressing their own - is an "imposition"? 

I was (of course) referring to imposing religious beliefs into cultural and legal manifestations of society. 

And I am not required to accept "the world" as it is.  That's religious/authoritarian thinking. It also prevents progress, by definition.

You are the one claiming “imposition”. Understand that you saying limit the scope but I don’t believe you. You are intent proofing anyone of religious beliefs regarding creation should be considered stupid and ignorant. You are surprisingly very closed minded.

No one is asking you to accept the world as it is. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

9 hours ago, homersapien said:

Is this serious?

Yes

[homersapien 11,387]

10 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Yes

That's sorta weird.

[homersapien 11,387]

10 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

You are the one claiming “imposition”. Understand that you saying limit the scope but I don’t believe you. You are intent proofing anyone of religious beliefs regarding creation should be considered stupid and ignorant. You are surprisingly very closed minded.

No one is asking you to accept the world as it is. 

I am not trying to "prove" anything.  I am just clarifying and confirming.

People can draw their own conclusions about such beliefs.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

I am not trying to "prove" anything.  I am just clarifying and confirming.

People can draw their own conclusions about such beliefs.

What are you “clarifying and confirming” exactly? That you are justified in believing that anyone of faith is an idiot? 
 

[homersapien 11,387]

23 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

What are you “clarifying and confirming” exactly? That you are justified in believing that anyone of faith is an idiot? 
 

I am interested in exposing just how many people actually believe God made women from Adam's rib (for example). Such literal, fundamentalist thinking is a very dangerous thing for a civilized society, as history demonstrates.

And "mentally ill" - or "crazy" would be more accurate term for them than "idiot".  (Most idiots don't represent a danger to society.)

As for "faith", there are plenty of people who maintain their belief in a God without accepting fairy tales in ancient texts as literally true.

 

Edited April 19 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

26 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I am interested in exposing just how many people actually believe God made women from Adam's rib (for example).

Not sure how important that is. God could have created people several ways and methods or combinations. 
 

Amazed at your obsession with it and “exposing”. Your obsession seems similar to Carl Spackler regarding the groundhogs.

[homersapien 11,387]

46 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not sure how important that is. God could have created people several ways and methods or combinations. 
 

Amazed at your obsession with it and “exposing”. Your obsession seems similar to Carl Spackler regarding the groundhogs.

Fine, if you must believe in God, then you need reconcile that faith with the truth as that truth is made apparent.

In other words, you need to somehow displace folk tales from ancient manuscripts with modern scientific knowledge - of "how God did it" (if that helps).

Otherwise, you are simply promoting magic and superstition. I am "amazed" at your resistance to that. It perfectly illustrates the danger of religious fundamentalism.

I don't have an obsession to expose it.  I feel it is my duty to oppose religion in the public "square" in order to prevent a theocracy and/or regression of our species to ignorance.  Without public opposition, we will certainly wind up teaching creationism in schools and taking public school students on field trips to the "Creation Museum".

And - as members of my family have demonstrated to me - we already have a problem in that a large percent of the voting populace who believe Israel is "Gods chosen country", because "it says so in the bible". Or as you said: "God has a covenant with Israel".

Edited April 19 by homersapien

[aubiefifty 16,807]

On 4/17/2024 at 8:43 PM, SaltyTiger said:

You have to be pretty “gone” to believe everything we have happened by chance and a boom also. 
 

You do understand Gods covenant with Israel do you not? We have discussed it a length in other threads. You seem to be stuck or hung up on it. Sorta weird really.

is  homer trying to take over my weirdness? that rascal. and when you gonna bring me some fish?

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

10 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

is  homer trying to take over my weirdness? that rascal. and when you gonna bring me some fish?

You’re not weird. Not bringing you any fish. They cost me $586.17 a pound when you consider all my time and expense…..be glad to feed you a filet mignon.

[TexasTiger 12,949]

7 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

You’re not weird. Not bringing you any fish. They cost me $586.17 a pound when you consider all my time and expense…..be glad to feed you a filet mignon.

You bill high for your time.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

11 hours ago, homersapien said:

feel it is my duty to oppose religion in the public "square"

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

6 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You bill high for your time.

I actually calculated it years ago on a trip. Travel, boat, insurance, fuel, tackle, etc…. Well over $100.00 per pound. Fresh water at home came to $87.00 per pound. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

11 hours ago, homersapien said:

Or as you said: "God has a covenant with Israel".

I never said that. It is the basis of the Old Testament. Read it and try to understand. Again, no need for you to believe it. Don’t do your “duty” ignorantly.