Messianism: Not just for Obamaphiles anymore!

[homersapien 11,367]

4 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

And this doesn’t surprise me. “Hypocrisy” is a label constantly thrown at Christians for virtually everything under the sun. It’s nothing new, though it operates from a false notion that Christians are supposed to be flawless people.

Perhaps that is worthy of contemplation.  At least if you are interested in attracting others to your religion.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

23 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That's a classic rationalization for overlooking Trump's character and behavior in order to justify supporting him.

At least that's the way an "outsider" would see it.

 

It’s not a rationalization of any kind. That comment was to a presumed Christian on this forum who likely is familiar with the section of scripture I am referring to. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, homersapien said:

Perhaps that is worthy of contemplation.  At least if you are interested in attracting others to your religion.

I can’t change your thoughts on Christianity, nor can any other person. Christians are not sinless. If perfection or consistency is what will win you over, then you’ll always be disappointed.

[homersapien 11,367]

52 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Define “Christian leader” and substantiate how they “associate” with Trump. 

Any self-proclaimed Christian, particularly of the evangelical variety, who actively participates in the public arena with the intent of furthering Christianity by expousing what Christians should think  or how they should act.

They associate themselves - and Christianity - with Trump by praising him, proclaiming their support for him and associating him with Christian thought and beliefs.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

17 minutes ago, Grumps said:

If you don't find it incredibly arrogant for you to think you know what is right and what is wrong for someone else despite not knowing that person's opinions and strongly held convictions then I suppose we can't learn much from each other, can we?

By all means, please tell me why you thought a narcissist with no political experience was the best choice to lead the country?

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I don't see it as a problem, more like a virtue.  

But if your point is not all Christians accept and approve of Trump, I will readily concede that as fact.  In fact, I would hope that more reject Trump than accept him. 

But the topic of this thread is the "PR effect" Christians - such as yourself - who publicize their support of Trump, regardless of their rationalizations for doing so, have on the image of Christianity and what it really stands for.

 

For many like you, it’s nothing more than a political ploy. If Christians supported a candidate who supports abortion, I guarantee you that you wouldn’t be calling them “hypocrites” and bashing their beliefs.

You don’t fool me.

[homersapien 11,367]

22 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I didn’t tell him how to do it. But there is an objective way. Didn’t you know that?

BS. 

You clearly implied he was incorrect due to a lack of "proper exegesis and hermeneutics".

With your ability to lie so effortlessly, you'll make a great lawyer.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, homersapien said:

BS. 

You clearly implied he was incorrect due to a lack of "proper exegesis and hermeneutics".

With your ability to lie so effortlessly, you'll make a great lawyer.

He took the verse out of context. Period.

[homersapien 11,367]

23 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Sure. But when you say “leaders” isn’t the connotation a vocational minister? Do I celebrate Trump’s sins?

Not necessarily.

No, you simply overlook and occasionally defend them.  Even if just by attacking the messenger.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Any self-proclaimed Christian, particularly of the evangelical variety, who actively participates in the public arena with the intent of furthering Christianity by expousing what Christians should think  or how they should act.

They associate themselves - and Christianity - with Trump by praising him, proclaiming their support for him and associating him with Christian thought and beliefs.

When a Christian supports a democratic candidate who is for abortion or who possesses other unchristian attributes, do you call them out on it?

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

This tweet is from a Christian pastor. 

 

 

[Grumps 3,704]

3 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Honest questions if this is how you view it.  Why are there pastors/priests in the first place?  Why do others choose to witness if what they say should have no bearing on me?

For question #1:

To try to get people to believe that God will speak to them directly. To help people refine their ability to hear God's voice. To organize efforts by a church to serve each other and others. To worship the creator of the universe as a group.  Many other reasons.

For question #2:

You don't really care what I type about God on this forum. You don't know me and you don't trust me. But if we worked together and you saw me loving the people I interact with and loving you and putting your needs and others' needs ahead of mine then you might wonder why I do that. If you saw me with a joy for life that you lacked then you might wonder where that joy comes from. THEN you might be open to what I have to say about God. Before you see it, there is nothing I can tell you. John Maxwell, the leadership guru, says that he will not share his faith with someone until he has added value to their life. That is probably a good approach.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

2 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

This tweet is from a Christian pastor. 

 

 

And Joel Osteen preaches prosperity in the name of Christ. What’s the point? No one is arguing that “Christians” are flawless. Many who proclaim the label are false indeed. There’s a lot of “good” tweets too I’m sure, from pastors. How come you don’t post those? 

[homersapien 11,367]

17 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Any of you looking to Christians to figure out what Christianity is about are never going to understand. Only God Himself can make you understand. If you all will ask God to reveal Himself to you then you are FAR more likely to understand who He is and what Christianity is. It seems disingenuous for you to determine who God is or isn't based on what Franklin Graham or any other human says.

So, who really needs the Christian church?

And if it's such a personal thing between you and God, why do Christian spokesmen deign to speak for the religion as an entity?

Finally, if every Christian is speaking from this personal relationship with God, are they representing God's intent to celibrate Trump"

[Grumps 3,704]

1 minute ago, NolaAuTiger said:

And Joel Osteen preaches prosperity in the name of Christ. What’s the point? No one is arguing that “Christians” are flawless. Many who proclaim the label are false indeed. There’s a lot of “good” tweets too I’m sure, from pastors. How come you don’t post those? 

What is funny is that David Swanson could also tweet

"There are white Christians who are OK with completely disregarding the rule of law and letting people enter the country illegally...who are also enthusiastically planning summer vacations to Washington D.C. to learn about the effectiveness and the formation of our nation's government.

The levels of cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy are just astounding."

Do you see how that works? People who want to bash whites and Christians can find reasons anywhere they want. David Swanson is also a hypocrite, just like the rest of us.

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, Grumps said:

What is funny is that David Swanson could also tweet

"There are white Christians who are OK with completely disregarding the rule of law and letting people enter the country illegally...who are also enthusiastically planning summer vacations to Washington D.C. to learn about the effectiveness and the formation of our nation's government.

The levels of cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy are just astounding."

Do you see how that works? People who want to bash whites and Christians can find reasons anywhere they want. David Swanson is also a hypocrite, just like the rest of us.

 

EXACTLY!

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

8 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

And Joel Osteen preaches prosperity in the name of Christ. What’s the point? No one is arguing that “Christians” are flawless. Many who proclaim the label are false indeed. There’s a lot of “good” tweets too I’m sure, from pastors. How come you don’t post those? 

You completely miss the point of this entire thread. It isn’t about Christians sinning. No one is perfect and everyone here knows that. The point is that many Christians and church leaders proclaim that Trump is a Christian, is God’s man despite the fact that almost every facet of his life goes against Christian teachings. It’s the hypocrisy that has hurt the ministry of Christianity. 

[homersapien 11,367]

25 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

It’s not a rationalization of any kind. That comment was to a presumed Christian on this forum who likely is familiar with the section of scripture I am referring to. 

Excusing or overlooking Trump's character because "we are all sinners" anyway, is a rationalization, whether it's based on some scriptural belief or not. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

4 minutes ago, Grumps said:

What is funny is that David Swanson could also tweet

"There are white Christians who are OK with completely disregarding the rule of law and letting people enter the country illegally...who are also enthusiastically planning summer vacations to Washington D.C. to learn about the effectiveness and the formation of our nation's government.

The levels of cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy are just astounding."

Do you see how that works? People who want to bash whites and Christians can find reasons anywhere they want. David Swanson is also a hypocrite, just like the rest of us.

 

So pointing out truth is bashing? That sounds like someone who is hurt by truth.

[Grumps 3,704]

13 minutes ago, homersapien said:

So, who really needs the Christian church? I do. But we might have the same definition of "Christian" or  "church."

And if it's such a personal thing between you and God, why do Christian spokesmen deign to speak for the religion as an entity? You already know the answer. Why does anyone ever speak for anyone else?

Finally, if every Christian is speaking from this personal relationship with God, are they representing God's intent to celibrate Trump Who says the every Christian is speaking from his/her personal relationship with God?

 

[Grumps 3,704]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Excusing or overlooking Trump's character because "we are all sinners" anyway, is a rationalization, whether it's based on some scriptural belief or not. 

 

2 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

So pointing out truth is bashing? That sounds like someone who is hurt by truth.

Wow! Great reply.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Excusing or overlooking Trump's character because "we are all sinners" anyway, is a rationalization, whether it's based on some scriptural belief or not. 

Wrong. That verse has nothing to do with excusing or overlooking character, nor am I using it in that way. If you have a problem with Christianity, fine. But at least be familiar with its teachings.

[Grumps 3,704]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Excusing or overlooking Trump's character because "we are all sinners" anyway, is a rationalization, whether it's based on some scriptural belief or not. 

Why don't you ask NoLa if he thinks that Trump is a man if high character? Trump can do good things for the country even if he is a EXTREMELY flawed. It amazes me that some of you seem to think that those of us who don't think that he should be castrated and burned at the stake are celebrating him.

[homersapien 11,367]

25 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I can’t change your thoughts on Christianity, nor can any other person. Christians are not sinless. If perfection or consistency is what will win you over, then you’ll always be disappointed.

I am not looking to be "won over".  Far too late for that.

You are probably right about you being able to change my "thoughts" on Christianity,  I find that impossible to imagine for reasons that don't all originate with me.  But this discussion is about the effect certain Christians have on the image of their religion by their words and actions.

The last two sentences are specious.  I never implied that sinlessness, perfection or consistency was a factor in my observations.   Embracing the likes of Trump and holding him up as an object of Christian approval is what I am talking about.

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

5 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

You completely miss the point of this entire thread. It isn’t about Christians sinning. No one is perfect and everyone here knows that. The point is that many Christians and church leaders proclaim that Trump is a Christian, is God’s man despite the fact that almost every facet of his life goes against Christian teachings. It’s the hypocrisy that has hurt the ministry of Christianity. 

So the few crazies speak for the majority of Christianity? You and I both know such claims are out of touch with mainstream Christian denominations.