All Things AU Linebacker thread

[Rednilla 5,396]

I feel like people give Frost a pass because of one play. He has to get better. A couple of plays this past game he could have made if he had the awareness to reach out and try to tackle

Well, there's one play that stands out from the one non-disastrous season he's played at Auburn, but it wasn't the only play he made last year...and I think the hype surrounding him when he came to the Plains assists in that pass being given. Rather than being an out-of-nowhere outstanding play by a nobody, it was a ray of hope that all the physical potential he had was beginning to come together. Certainly that one play will not have him remembered as an AU great, but it provides reason to believe that he can still develop into one, at least.

are we talking about the play that should have been called a horse collar tackle?

It's been a while since I saw the play, but I remember it being borderline...as in it could have gone either direction, not that it should have been called and wasn't.

[aujeff11 6,243]

I feel like people give Frost a pass because of one play. He has to get better. A couple of plays this past game he could have made if he had the awareness to reach out and try to tackle

Well, there's one play that stands out from the one non-disastrous season he's played at Auburn, but it wasn't the only play he made last year...and I think the hype surrounding him when he came to the Plains assists in that pass being given. Rather than being an out-of-nowhere outstanding play by a nobody, it was a ray of hope that all the physical potential he had was beginning to come together. Certainly that one play will not have him remembered as an AU great, but it provides reason to believe that he can still develop into one, at least.

are we talking about the play that should have been called a horse collar tackle?

It's been a while since I saw the play, but I remember it being borderline...as in it could have gone either direction, not that it should have been called and wasn't.

I have seen his identical tackle called both ways, so we were fortunate at the very least.

[Rednilla 5,396]

I feel like people give Frost a pass because of one play. He has to get better. A couple of plays this past game he could have made if he had the awareness to reach out and try to tackle

Well, there's one play that stands out from the one non-disastrous season he's played at Auburn, but it wasn't the only play he made last year...and I think the hype surrounding him when he came to the Plains assists in that pass being given. Rather than being an out-of-nowhere outstanding play by a nobody, it was a ray of hope that all the physical potential he had was beginning to come together. Certainly that one play will not have him remembered as an AU great, but it provides reason to believe that he can still develop into one, at least.

are we talking about the play that should have been called a horse collar tackle?

It's been a while since I saw the play, but I remember it being borderline...as in it could have gone either direction, not that it should have been called and wasn't.

I have seen his identical tackle called both ways, so we were fortunate at the very least.

So if you have seen it called both ways, why would you suggest that it should have been called a horse collar? Wouldn't that only bolster my statement that it was borderline? And if it was, indeed, a tackle of borderline legality, then how much do you believe officiating should dictate the outcome of a close game in the final minutes?

Again, I've not seen the play in a while, but I seem to remember Frost running stride for stride with Manziel before using the leverage to bring him down, not grabbing on and pulling him backward (which is what the rule is designed to guard against). If I am remembering the way that went down correctly, then it makes sense to me to let the boys play...

[aujeff11 6,243]

I feel like people give Frost a pass because of one play. He has to get better. A couple of plays this past game he could have made if he had the awareness to reach out and try to tackle

Well, there's one play that stands out from the one non-disastrous season he's played at Auburn, but it wasn't the only play he made last year...and I think the hype surrounding him when he came to the Plains assists in that pass being given. Rather than being an out-of-nowhere outstanding play by a nobody, it was a ray of hope that all the physical potential he had was beginning to come together. Certainly that one play will not have him remembered as an AU great, but it provides reason to believe that he can still develop into one, at least.

are we talking about the play that should have been called a horse collar tackle?

It's been a while since I saw the play, but I remember it being borderline...as in it could have gone either direction, not that it should have been called and wasn't.

I have seen his identical tackle called both ways, so we were fortunate at the very least.

So if you have seen it called both ways, why would you suggest that it should have been called a horse collar? Wouldn't that only bolster my statement that it was borderline? And if it was, indeed, a tackle of borderline legality, then how much do you believe officiating should dictate the outcome of a close game in the final minutes?

Again, I've not seen the play in a while, but I seem to remember Frost running stride for stride with Manziel before using the leverage to bring him down, not grabbing on and pulling him backward (which is what the rule is designed to guard against). If I am remembering the way that went down correctly, then it makes sense to me to let the boys play...

Just because I have seen it both ways doesnt make it legal. Some refs just didn't call it!! Frost grabbed him from inside the jersey and pulled down to where manziel awkwardly falls on his legs.

All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down. This does not apply to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box (Rule 2-34). Note that the tackle box disintegrates when the ball leaves it.

[AU Is Gold 410]

It's an obvious horsecollar. We got away with one that time, but there have been plenty that have gone against us as well.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Somehow I fell under the impression that getting the jersey was okay, just not the pads. I stand corrected. Looks like that horse got his collar yanked. Oh well. They had their chances.

Anyway, I'm going to keep pulling for Frost. He chose Auburn over a lot of other schools and proceeded to bounce off 3 different DCs in 3 seasons. The light is only now starting to go on for most of the defense, so maybe he's still got a chance. Dude has fought for Auburn. I'm pulling for him.

[Rednilla 5,396]

Just because I have seen it both ways doesnt make it legal. Some refs just didn't call it!! Frost grabbed him from inside the jersey and pulled down to where manziel awkwardly falls on his legs.

All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down. This does not apply to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box (Rule 2-34). Note that the tackle box disintegrates when the ball leaves it.

Thank you for providing the gif and the wording of the rule; gives me a better perspective of the play than I had in my memory.

Of course, all it does is prove exactly how borderline the call was: instead of grabbing the inside back collar of the shoulder pads or jersey and immediately pulling the ball carrier down, as worded in the rule, Frost grabbed the inside back collar, then immediately grabbed Manziel's shoulder with his other hand, and THEN brought him down. The fact that Kris brought JFF down with both hands, even if the left hand got to the back collar a fraction of a second more quickly (in slo-mo, no less) than his right hand got to the shoulder, means that at the very best, you're arguing semantics about a rule that was in its first year of existence as if the implementation of that rule is carved into stone.

[Mikey 16,714]

Somehow I fell under the impression that getting the jersey was okay, just not the pads. I stand corrected. Looks like that horse got his collar yanked. Oh well. They had their chances.

Anyway, I'm going to keep pulling for Frost. He chose Auburn over a lot of other schools and proceeded to bounce off 3 different DCs in 3 seasons. The light is only now starting to go on for most of the defense, so maybe he's still got a chance. Dude has fought for Auburn. I'm pulling for him.

I think all Auburn fans are pulling for him. I simply think it's not likely that, somewhere in the middle of his fourth year here some magical light goes on. No light went on last year. He had one good play when he ran Manziel down. Now go look at the UGA and UAT games and watch Frost get bulldozed head-on by both Aaron Murray and A. J. McCarron. Neither one is your typical power runner that should be flattening an opponent's MLB.

Does anybody know if Deshaun Davis is recovered enough from his knee injury to play? If so, it's entirely possible that we will have two true freshman LB's, Davis and Williams, starting at some point in the second half of the season.

[WarEagle84 0]

Just because I have seen it both ways doesnt make it legal. Some refs just didn't call it!! Frost grabbed him from inside the jersey and pulled down to where manziel awkwardly falls on his legs.

All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down. This does not apply to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box (Rule 2-34). Note that the tackle box disintegrates when the ball leaves it.

I saw a play last weekend (can't remember which game) where the defender grabbed the ball carrier's jersey near the waist and pulled him down from behind. He was flagged for a horsecollar tackle. It seems some refs don't even know the rule.

[IronMan70 3,277]

Comments from catching up on the last 10 pages:

First comment. It seems to me that all this arguing that goes on for page after page about whether the star is a safety or a linebacker is a waste of time. The defense is called a 4-2-5 for a reason, the 2 identifies the pure linebackers and the star isn't one of them. It is what it is.

Next comment. Mikey has been closer to the truth and more consistent over a longer period of time on how many pure LBs we have needed to recruit. His reasoning about the hit and miss nature of the position has been born out on the field. His "show me" vs "potential" line of thinking is nothing more than being realistic over just hoping. Hope is not an option and hope doesn't make tackles.

Final comment. Maybe Frost needs to go back to MLB, he seemed to make a lot more tackles there. Cass can play either position but he was 1st on the team in tackles from WLB last year. Frost was 5th on the team in tackles last year playing part time at MLB, Just a thought.

[cole256 17,084]

It's not possible of having two freshmen linebackers. Cass has played well. No way Davis could come and take his spot. I guess two freshmen could end up playing if injuries occur....

[Rednilla 5,396]

Comments from catching up on the last 10 pages:

First comment. It seems to me that all this arguing that goes on for page after page about whether the star is a safety or a linebacker is a waste of time. The defense is called a 4-2-5 for a reason, the 2 identifies the pure linebackers and the star isn't one of them. It is what it is.

Next comment. Mikey has been closer to the truth and more consistent over a longer period of time on how many pure LBs we have needed to recruit. His reasoning about the hit and miss nature of the position has been born out on the field. His "show me" vs "potential" line of thinking is nothing more than being realistic over just hoping. Hope is not an option and hope doesn't make tackles.

Final comment. Maybe Frost needs to go back to MLB, he seemed to make a lot more tackles there. Cass can play either position but he was 1st on the team in tackles from WLB last year. Frost was 5th on the team in tackles last year playing part time at MLB, Just a thought.

From all reports, McKinzy is much better at making the calls at MLB. Far more likely for Frost to be overtaken by someone else than for him to flip back with Cass.

As for your comments on Mikey, I do agree with them to an extent (as I said, I have grown to respect him). That aside, your assertion that "hope is not an option" is WAY off the mark, if you ask me. You do realize that the term "fan" is nothing more than a shortening of the word "fanatic", right? Now, I'm all for keeping things in perspective, and I'm not suggesting that we have blind faith in any and every player who dons the navy and burnt orange, but there is a difference between hoping things will work out and believing in a player.

"Hope: the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of [our] greatest strength and [our] greatest weakness."

--The Architect

[Rednilla 5,396]

Somehow I fell under the impression that getting the jersey was okay, just not the pads. I stand corrected. Looks like that horse got his collar yanked. Oh well. They had their chances.

Anyway, I'm going to keep pulling for Frost. He chose Auburn over a lot of other schools and proceeded to bounce off 3 different DCs in 3 seasons. The light is only now starting to go on for most of the defense, so maybe he's still got a chance. Dude has fought for Auburn. I'm pulling for him.

I think all Auburn fans are pulling for him. I simply think it's not likely that, somewhere in the middle of his fourth year here some magical light goes on. No light went on last year. He had one good play when he ran Manziel down. Now go look at the UGA and UAT games and watch Frost get bulldozed head-on by both Aaron Murray and A. J. McCarron. Neither one is your typical power runner that should be flattening an opponent's MLB.

Does anybody know if Deshaun Davis is recovered enough from his knee injury to play? If so, it's entirely possible that we will have two true freshman LB's, Davis and Williams, starting at some point in the second half of the season.

I have never seen you have one positive thing to say about Kris Frost. He DID have a bad game on Saturday, and he DOES have to step up if he wants to keep his job...but it was still only the first game of the year, and this is the first time in his college career that he has run the same defense for a second consecutive season, after not playing defense (or at least not very much of it) in high school.

Also, while I fully understand that he is the exception and not the rule, Nick Fairley was a redshirt junior in 2010. Yes, he went to JUCO before coming to Auburn, but it's not that far off. Jason Campbell, after showing promise his sophomore season before falling prey to the Nallsminger debacle as a junior, put up Heisman worthy numbers as a senior. I'm sure I could come up with more examples of players putting everything together during/after their fourth year in college, but it would make no difference, so why bother?

[IronMan70 3,277]

Comments from catching up on the last 10 pages:

First comment. It seems to me that all this arguing that goes on for page after page about whether the star is a safety or a linebacker is a waste of time. The defense is called a 4-2-5 for a reason, the 2 identifies the pure linebackers and the star isn't one of them. It is what it is.

Next comment. Mikey has been closer to the truth and more consistent over a longer period of time on how many pure LBs we have needed to recruit. His reasoning about the hit and miss nature of the position has been born out on the field. His "show me" vs "potential" line of thinking is nothing more than being realistic over just hoping. Hope is not an option and hope doesn't make tackles.

Final comment. Maybe Frost needs to go back to MLB, he seemed to make a lot more tackles there. Cass can play either position but he was 1st on the team in tackles from WLB last year. Frost was 5th on the team in tackles last year playing part time at MLB, Just a thought.

From all reports, McKinzy is much better at making the calls at MLB. Far more likely for Frost to be overtaken by someone else than for him to flip back with Cass.

As for your comments on Mikey, I do agree with them to an extent (as I said, I have grown to respect him). That aside, your assertion that "hope is not an option" is WAY off the mark, if you ask me. You do realize that the term "fan" is nothing more than a shortening of the word "fanatic", right? Now, I'm all for keeping things in perspective, and I'm not suggesting that we have blind faith in any and every player who dons the navy and burnt orange, but there is a difference between hoping things will work out and believing in a player.

"Hope: the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of [our] greatest strength and [our] greatest weakness."

--The Architect

Well the only way you could think that was off the mark is if you misinterpreted my meaning so let me try to be more clear about it. I believe in every one of our players. I think when they go out there on that field they do the absolute best they can do with the talent they have. But the reality is that some of them are more talented than others. That is why the coaches make decisions on who is on 1st, 2nd or 3rd team.

The phrase, hope is not an option, refers to the talent that you actually see on the field. It is what it is at that very moment, not what it could be. Players don't move up the depth chart and on to the field based on potential or hope, the coaches can't afford that. It has to be based on level of talent.

So when Mikey refers to All SEC level of play, I take it to mean he is talking about upgrading the talent level. Now, I would like to see that come from our current players and actually I think that will be the case. But at the same time we also have to face reality. If it doesn't come from them we have to go find it because we need top level LBs to have a good defense. I hope that clears up my meaning for you.

That information you stated about Cass being able to make the calls better than Frost is interesting. I am surprised.

[aubinvnam 29]

Just watched the game again. Cass for sure showed flashes at least of being a potential all-SEC linebacker. Showed great speed for a guy his size on that sack of Brandon Allen. Bet that won't be the last sack he gets this year.

[Mikey 16,714]

Also, while I fully understand that he is the exception and not the rule, Nick Fairley was a redshirt junior in 2010. Yes, he went to JUCO before coming to Auburn, but it's not that far off. Jason Campbell, after showing promise his sophomore season before falling prey to the Nallsminger debacle as a junior, put up Heisman worthy numbers as a senior. I'm sure I could come up with more examples of players putting everything together during/after their fourth year in college, but it would make no difference, so why bother?

Lets look at your post: Nick Fairley, in 2009, showed some real flashes of the potential that was there. It came together for him in 2010. As you noted, Jason Campbell showed a lot of promise in his earlier years before becoming a #1 draft pick after the '04 season. I've seen no such indications of big things to come from our current, non freshman LB's and I think they have had time to show something, if it were there.

Like IronMan, I'm surprised about the statement that Cass is better at making the calls. It was widely stated that the reason both were placed out of position last season was because Frost had to be the one making the calls.

Speaking of Cass, yes he made a couple of nice hits in the Arky game. He ended up with four tackles and two assists. Considering the opponent's style of offense, eight and four would have been more like it for a MLB.

[ellitor 33,114]

Does anybody know if Deshaun Davis is recovered enough from his knee injury to play?

He recovered from that injury but he had another injury during Fall Camp that has him behind on depth. He missed a week and quite a bit of install.

[cole256 17,084]

Also, while I fully understand that he is the exception and not the rule, Nick Fairley was a redshirt junior in 2010. Yes, he went to JUCO before coming to Auburn, but it's not that far off. Jason Campbell, after showing promise his sophomore season before falling prey to the Nallsminger debacle as a junior, put up Heisman worthy numbers as a senior. I'm sure I could come up with more examples of players putting everything together during/after their fourth year in college, but it would make no difference, so why bother?

Lets look at your post: Nick Fairley, in 2009, showed some real flashes of the potential that was there. It came together for him in 2010. As you noted, Jason Campbell showed a lot of promise in his earlier years before becoming a #1 draft pick after the '04 season. I've seen no such indications of big things to come from our current, non freshman LB's and I think they have had time to show something, if it were there.

Like IronMan, I'm surprised about the statement that Cass is better at making the calls. It was widely stated that the reason both were placed out of position last season was because Frost had to be the one making the calls.

Speaking of Cass, yes he made a couple of nice hits in the Arky game. He ended up with four tackles and two assists. Considering the opponent's style of offense, eight and four would have been more like it for a MLB.

You also have to look at the fact that our d line was confused or at least that's what I've been reading in the first half. Maybe he was taking on blockers be shouldn't havehad to

[Mikey 16,714]

You also have to look at the fact that our d line was confused or at least that's what I've been reading in the first half. Maybe he was taking on blockers be shouldn't havehad to

That's entirely possible. There sure were some huge holes in our front 7 the first half.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

You also have to look at the fact that our d line was confused or at least that's what I've been reading in the first half. Maybe he was taking on blockers be shouldn't havehad to

That's entirely possible. There sure were some huge holes in our front 7 the first half.

This is what I'm told. The DL didn't do the LBers any favors in the first half. Cass is going to be good to great just has to get some more reps under his belt. And the main reason Frost & Cass switched positions is Frost isn't no where as physical as he needs to be in the middle. His shoulder is still giving him fits and it shows in his play. Kid has heart but will be playing 2nd team as soon as TW grasps the playbook a little better.

[cole256 17,084]

I agree. I guess the same can be said for Frost it just so happen I saw two plays that literally made me Smh with him but I'll be the first to admit I don't necessarily know what his assignment was, but to the naked eye it was discouraging. I really didn't see Cass miss any plays in that same manner.

[Rednilla 5,396]

Lets look at your post: Nick Fairley, in 2009, showed some real flashes of the potential that was there. It came together for him in 2010. As you noted, Jason Campbell showed a lot of promise in his earlier years before becoming a #1 draft pick after the '04 season. I've seen no such indications of big things to come from our current, non freshman LB's and I think they have had time to show something, if it were there.

Like IronMan, I'm surprised about the statement that Cass is better at making the calls. It was widely stated that the reason both were placed out of position last season was because Frost had to be the one making the calls.

Speaking of Cass, yes he made a couple of nice hits in the Arky game. He ended up with four tackles and two assists. Considering the opponent's style of offense, eight and four would have been more like it for a MLB.

Fairley and Frost have relatively similar stat lines from their redshirt sophomore season, taking into consideration their different positions; Frost had about double the amount of tackles and almost double the amount of tackles for loss as Fairley, so running down Johnny Manziel is not the only thing he did right. Now, that is not to say he is going to turn into the kind of impact player Fairley was, only a case study of the light bulb coming on.

Of course, the only two non-freshman linebackers on the roster that I believe are of the caliber to start in the SEC are the two who started in the season opener, and we've already covered their play in that game. That having been said, I have seen enough from Swain and Mitchell to believe they have what it takes to provide depth, at least, and there were some good things being said about Kenny Flowers during the spring, so it's not as if the cupboard is totally bare.

As for Cass being better at making the calls, the way I understand it is that he was still picking up the defense and what calls to make last season, but now that he has, he does a better job of it than Kris...or maybe that he is just at the same level now, and thus able to play his natural position. But I don't remember where I saw that, so it's quite possible I'm remembering something wrong.

[AUbritt 611]

I thought the info from WDE about Frost's shoulder giving him fits was very telling.

I am still looking forward to seeing Williams play a lot today.

[ellitor 33,114]

I thought the info from WDE about Frost's shoulder giving him fits was very telling.

I am still looking forward to seeing Williams play a lot today.

Agreed. He played like it and I think that needle of a post got lost in the haystack of the past 10 plus pages.

[AUbritt 611]

I thought the info from WDE about Frost's shoulder giving him fits was very telling.

I am still looking forward to seeing Williams play a lot today.

Agreed. He played like it and I think that needle of a post got lost in the haystack of the past 10 plus pages.

I was very happy to see Frost look more like we expected in game 2. Maybe his shoulder is feeling better!