Obama’s Cuba Surprise

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Here's the thing...we know that the policy toward Cuba we've been following for 50 years hasn't worked. It hasn't gotten Cuba any closer to freedom. On the other hand, China and Vietnam have opened up their economies a lot more and the people there, while hardly free in the sense Westerners know, are better off than they have been from a human rights standpoint than at any point since communists took over both nations. Know why? The US and the West engaged them, traded with them, allowed visitors to them, opened up diplomatic relations with them. Is it perfect? Hardly. But it's far better than the alternative that we see with Cuba and to a more extreme degree, North Korea.

It's far past time to stop letting a subset of Cuban dissidents and refugees in South Florida dictate our entire foreign policy strategy toward Cuba. Time for a new approach.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Here's the thing...we know that the policy toward Cuba we've been following for 50 years hasn't worked. It hasn't gotten Cuba any closer to freedom. On the other hand, China and Vietnam have opened up their economies a lot more and the people there, while hardly free in the sense Westerners know, are better off than they have been from a human rights standpoint than at any point since communists took over both nations. Know why? The US and the West engaged them, traded with them, allowed visitors to them, opened up diplomatic relations with them. Is it perfect? Hardly. But it's far better than the alternative that we see with Cuba and to a more extreme degree, North Korea.

It's far past time to stop letting a subset of Cuban dissidents and refugees in South Florida dictate our entire foreign policy strategy toward Cuba. Time for a new approach.

That pretty much says it all.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

It's uncanny how this administration does things. They want to talk to every single one of our enemies and believe that because they, the smart ones are there, they'll be able to get through. In the process they'll just give the store away and get nothing in return. At the same time they will turn their back to our friends or even just slap them in the face.

Thank you Sean Hannity.

[AUtiger98 24]

It's uncanny how this administration does things. They want to talk to every single one of our enemies and believe that because they, the smart ones are there, they'll be able to get through. In the process they'll just give the store away and get nothing in return. At the same time they will turn their back to our friends or even just slap them in the face.

It's also uncanny how they do this after Congress has left town.

[AUtiger98 24]

Robert Menendez (D-N.J.)

"I think it stinks," Menendez, the son of Cuban immigrants and the outgoing Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman, said at a press conference on new financial help for Hurricane Sandy residents. "I think it's wrong. I am deeply disappointed in the president."

"Though this policy has been rooted in the best of intentions, no other nation joins us in imposing these sanctions, and it has had little effect beyond providing the Cuban government with a rationale for restrictions on its people,".

[TexasTiger 12,835]

It's uncanny how this administration does things. They want to talk to every single one of our enemies and believe that because they, the smart ones are there, they'll be able to get through. In the process they'll just give the store away and get nothing in return. At the same time they will turn their back to our friends or even just slap them in the face.

It's also uncanny how they do this after Congress has left town.

What's the relevance?

[TheBlueVue 177]

It's uncanny how this administration does things. They want to talk to every single one of our enemies and believe that because they, the smart ones are there, they'll be able to get through. In the process they'll just give the store away and get nothing in return. At the same time they will turn their back to our friends or even just slap them in the face.

It's also uncanny how they do this after Congress has left town.

What's the relevance?

Its a pattern of deception this admin has consistently used to get what Obama wants without any political opposition. Obama refuses to be straight and candid with the American people. He says he has used less Executive Orders than any President in the last 100 years which is BS. Executive Actions include executive orders and executive memoranda. The executive memorandum is the stealth functional equivalent of the executive order and once you include those to his EOs he has doubled the total that Geo Bush issued. Evidently the guy doesn't have even a smidgeon of an honesty in his character. He lies when it isn't necessary.

As it relates to this Cuba deal. Obama claims nothing has happened in the last 50 years. Actually thats a good thing and one of the main reasons for the sanctions. They worked toward OUR best national security inteerests. If progress is what Obama wants, I would tend to believe that progress has to imply making things better. Who benefits from this deal? The Cuban regime benefits because the sanctions are removed and Cuba becomes a tourism destination which is weird to me..who cant find a better place for a vacation than that ****hole? The point is the Cuban people will not benefit in anyway and if America doesn't benefit in any substantive way, WTF? Why do it? it makes no sense.

[AUtiger98 24]

It's uncanny how this administration does things. They want to talk to every single one of our enemies and believe that because they, the smart ones are there, they'll be able to get through. In the process they'll just give the store away and get nothing in return. At the same time they will turn their back to our friends or even just slap them in the face.

It's also uncanny how they do this after Congress has left town.

What's the relevance?

Oh I don't know, we have a president who doesn't consult Congress on issues (long list of examples), the admin negotiates with dictators behind the close doors, releases prisoners who killed American citizens, single highhandedly changes 50+ years of foreign policy with Cuba, and then announces this while Congress is away. They have a name for leaders who act by themselves.

Its also convenient that he's leaving for a 3 week vacation in Hawaii.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

You guys are so hellbent on griping about Obama you constantly grasp at straws. Anything congress wants to do, they can do in January. Government goes on even during a do-nothing congress' lengthy recesses.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Not to worry, Those Who Love Failed Foreign Policy Strategies! Congress will ride to the rescue in January and return us to our non-productive posture toward Cuba lickety-split. Heaven forbid someone do something that makes sense.

[autigeremt 6,599]

You guys are so hellbent on griping about Obama you constantly grasp at straws. Anything congress wants to do, they can do in January. Government goes on even during a do-nothing congress' lengthy recesses.

You guys are hellbent on the continued transformation of the nation into something that looks more like Europe (or Cuba for some). Unfortunately for you.....we won't stand down.

We need to slowly reach out to Cuba, but why not work with Congress on something that comes from the people instead of another "Memoranda"? Oh.....that's because it's not worth the time.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

You guys are so hellbent on griping about Obama you constantly grasp at straws. Anything congress wants to do, they can do in January. Government goes on even during a do-nothing congress' lengthy recesses.

You guys are hellbent on the continued transformation of the nation into something that looks more like Europe (or Cuba for some). Unfortunately for you.....we won't stand down.

We need to slowly reach out to Cuba, but why not work with Congress on something that comes from the people instead of another "Memoranda"? Oh.....that's because it's not worth the time.

Because every time this subject is broached, Congress kills it because too many representatives listen to the vocal minority in South Florida that can sway an election for that state. It's the tail wagging the dog.

Get out of the 'procedures' mindset for a second and just ask yourself...is this the right move (to start opening relations with Cuba)? If so, then move forward and get Congress on board. If not, explain why continuing the policy of the last 50 years makes sense.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

The vocal minority in South Florida knows more about this than everyone here combined.

[autigeremt 6,599]

You guys are so hellbent on griping about Obama you constantly grasp at straws. Anything congress wants to do, they can do in January. Government goes on even during a do-nothing congress' lengthy recesses.

You guys are hellbent on the continued transformation of the nation into something that looks more like Europe (or Cuba for some). Unfortunately for you.....we won't stand down.

We need to slowly reach out to Cuba, but why not work with Congress on something that comes from the people instead of another "Memoranda"? Oh.....that's because it's not worth the time.

Because every time this subject is broached, Congress kills it because too many representatives listen to the vocal minority in South Florida that can sway an election for that state. It's the tail wagging the dog.

Get out of the 'procedures' mindset for a second and just ask yourself...is this the right move (to start opening relations with Cuba)? If so, then move forward and get Congress on board. If not, explain why continuing the policy of the last 50 years makes sense.

The vocal minority deserve to be heard because they lived it. The right move is to work with them first (US Citizens) and move ahead. THAT would be unheard of.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

The vocal minority in South Florida knows more about this than everyone here combined.

The vocal minority is reacting emotionally rather than rationally. There is absolutely zero rational reason to treat Cuba differently than we treat Vietnam or China.

[channonc 466]

Democrat Bob Menendez and republican Marco Rubio both Cuban-Americans are opposed and feel this is terrible policy. Cuba is a terrible human rights violater and both feel the idea is ill conceived and will do nothing but reward the Cuban regime and provide absolutely no relief for the victims of the tyranny of Castro's dictatorship.

Both were born to Cuban immigrants, so not surprising that they oppose this move.

I, frankly, thought this policy was completely inconsistent with the other policies we have in place for countries like this, China being only just one example. At this point it is clear that this embargo has not worked. Time to open up travel.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

You guys are so hellbent on griping about Obama you constantly grasp at straws. Anything congress wants to do, they can do in January. Government goes on even during a do-nothing congress' lengthy recesses.

You guys are hellbent on the continued transformation of the nation into something that looks more like Europe (or Cuba for some). Unfortunately for you.....we won't stand down.

We need to slowly reach out to Cuba, but why not work with Congress on something that comes from the people instead of another "Memoranda"? Oh.....that's because it's not worth the time.

Because every time this subject is broached, Congress kills it because too many representatives listen to the vocal minority in South Florida that can sway an election for that state. It's the tail wagging the dog.

Get out of the 'procedures' mindset for a second and just ask yourself...is this the right move (to start opening relations with Cuba)? If so, then move forward and get Congress on board. If not, explain why continuing the policy of the last 50 years makes sense.

The vocal minority deserve to be heard because they lived it. The right move is to work with them first (US Citizens) and move ahead. THAT would be unheard of.

They've been heard - and appeased - for 50 years. We don't appease Chinese or Vietnamese refugees this way. And the only reason is because they aren't a concentrated, single-issue, swing-state voting block.

[homersapien 11,367]

You guys are so hellbent on griping about Obama you constantly grasp at straws. Anything congress wants to do, they can do in January. Government goes on even during a do-nothing congress' lengthy recesses.

You guys are hellbent on the continued transformation of the nation into something that looks more like Europe (or Cuba for some). Unfortunately for you.....we won't stand down.

We need to slowly reach out to Cuba, but why not work with Congress on something that comes from the people instead of another "Memoranda"? Oh.....that's because it's not worth the time.

Because every time this subject is broached, Congress kills it because too many representatives listen to the vocal minority in South Florida that can sway an election for that state. It's the tail wagging the dog.

Get out of the 'procedures' mindset for a second and just ask yourself...is this the right move (to start opening relations with Cuba)? If so, then move forward and get Congress on board. If not, explain why continuing the policy of the last 50 years makes sense.

The vocal minority deserve to be heard because they lived it. The right move is to work with them first (US Citizens) and move ahead. THAT would be unheard of.

U.S. citizens should put the interests of the U.S. first. The U.S. is not obligated to cater to the specialized desires of an immigrant community if it is against the interests of the U.S.

This is in the interest of the U.S. and will ultimate benefit Cubans.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

This once again feels like "all my conservative/right-wing/GOP sources took _____________ position on this matter, therefore so do I." Not that conservatives are the only ones that do this, but on this issue, that's how it's playing out.

Eight pages and I've yet to hear one coherent reason to treat Cuba differently than other communist states like China or Vietnam.

[Grumps 3,704]

Excellent point, Titan! And thanks for actually trying to discuss the issues.

So what specifically is the purpose of our embargoes with Cuba?

How is it in the U.S.'s best interest to open relations with Cuba?

Why do Americans from Cuba think it is such a bad idea to open relations with Cuba?

Doesn't Cuba know that if they would cater to the U.S. they could be a ridiculously wealthy country?

Why doesn't Cuba try to gain U.S. favor/trading/tourism?

Do we think that the U.S. is better off by having such open trading with China and Vietnam?

[homersapien 11,367]

This once again feels like "all my conservative/right-wing/GOP sources took _____________ position on this matter, therefore so do I." Not that conservatives are the only ones that do this, but on this issue, that's how it's playing out.

Eight pages and I've yet to hear one coherent reason to treat Cuba differently than other communist states like China or Vietnam.

I figured negative comments would pick up after the Rush Limbaugh show aired. The "talking points" are now getting out. :-\

[AUUSN 823]

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) is breaking with other Republican presidential hopefuls and backing President Obama's decision to launch talks normalizing relations with Cuba. Paul criticized the trade and travel embargo on Cuba as ineffective, separating himself from former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and Sens. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Ted Cruz (R-Texas), who have criticized Obama and backed the embargo. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/227557-paul-backs-obamas-cuba-moves

[cooltigger21 0]

You guys are so hellbent on griping about Obama you constantly grasp at straws. Anything congress wants to do, they can do in January. Government goes on even during a do-nothing congress' lengthy recesses.

You guys are hellbent on the continued transformation of the nation into something that looks more like Europe (or Cuba for some). Unfortunately for you.....we won't stand down.

We need to slowly reach out to Cuba, but why not work with Congress on something that comes from the people instead of another "Memoranda"? Oh.....that's because it's not worth the time. :dunno:/>

Because every time this subject is broached, Congress kills it because too many representatives listen to the vocal minority in South Florida that can sway an election for that state. It's the tail wagging the dog.

Get out of the 'procedures' mindset for a second and just ask yourself...is this the right move (to start opening relations with Cuba)? If so, then move forward and get Congress on board. If not, explain why continuing the policy of the last 50 years makes sense.

The vocal minority deserve to be heard because they lived it. The right move is to work with them first (US Citizens) and move ahead. THAT would be unheard of.

U.S. citizens should put the interests of the U.S. first. The U.S. is not obligated to cater to the specialized desires of an immigrant community if it is against the interests of the U.S.

This is in the interest of the U.S. and will ultimate benefit Cubans.

the only Cubans this will benefit is the Castro regime. Ordinary Cubans won't see any benefit from this.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) is breaking with other Republican presidential hopefuls and backing President Obama's decision to launch talks normalizing relations with Cuba. Paul criticized the trade and travel embargo on Cuba as ineffective, separating himself from former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and Sens. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Ted Cruz (R-Texas), who have criticized Obama and backed the embargo. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/227557-paul-backs-obamas-cuba-moves

Paul can engage in original thought.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

You guys are so hellbent on griping about Obama you constantly grasp at straws. Anything congress wants to do, they can do in January. Government goes on even during a do-nothing congress' lengthy recesses.

You guys are hellbent on the continued transformation of the nation into something that looks more like Europe (or Cuba for some). Unfortunately for you.....we won't stand down.

We need to slowly reach out to Cuba, but why not work with Congress on something that comes from the people instead of another "Memoranda"? Oh.....that's because it's not worth the time. :dunno:/>

Because every time this subject is broached, Congress kills it because too many representatives listen to the vocal minority in South Florida that can sway an election for that state. It's the tail wagging the dog.

Get out of the 'procedures' mindset for a second and just ask yourself...is this the right move (to start opening relations with Cuba)? If so, then move forward and get Congress on board. If not, explain why continuing the policy of the last 50 years makes sense.

The vocal minority deserve to be heard because they lived it. The right move is to work with them first (US Citizens) and move ahead. THAT would be unheard of.

U.S. citizens should put the interests of the U.S. first. The U.S. is not obligated to cater to the specialized desires of an immigrant community if it is against the interests of the U.S.

This is in the interest of the U.S. and will ultimate benefit Cubans.

the only Cubans this will benefit is the Castro regime. Ordinary Cubans won't see any benefit from this.

Have the Chinese people benefited from normalization?