I'm confused, but sw and jj are the same

[AURealist 2,185]

Been watching this discussion for past 2 weekend and I thin Cole has legitimate question. I think our expectationof JJ was so high it was easy to be negative about his play.

It wasn't just OUR expectations. It was the " experts " from those who watch college all across the country. Many were placing JJ on the Heisman watch list, due to this glimpsed work and athletic potential. Problem is, JJ simply isn't a gamer.

IMO SW play has not been much different. Based on where the receiver was on the long pass, SW missed the receiver. He has put the ball on the turf a few times and been fortunate not to lose them.I can only believe the reason we do not throw more is because of what the coaches see in practice.

Sean has been too careless w/ the ball when he runs, but he's not turned it over. Nor has he thrown 6 INTS. He has shown better decision making than Jeremy, I don't think that's much in doubt.

I see very little difference with SW at QB. We looked extremely lethargic Sat and against Moo State we didn't cross the goal line. Season is in the tank. I say live and die with JJ and start looking for a JC QB or transfer for next year if Jj does not improve.

We've already died w/ JJ. Too late for him to get his head back in the game, imo. Sean is the best option for us to move forward. Even if he's less capable in some areas, he's going to try. Something Jeremy seems unwilling to do.

Already died w/JJ? That's one of the most asinine comment I've heard. I really hope you've never been a coach, or else you would have no players left to play for you, unless they were perfect with everything. I'm not discounting or apologizing about the mistakes JJ made in those 3 games, but damn, he doesn't get to redeem himself? Last time I checked, Jason Campbell, Brandon Cox, Ben Leard, and Stan White, off the top of my head, struggled throughout their careers at first before adjusting to the game. Am I saying JJ will absolutely do that? No. Can he? Yes. He has wayyyy more potential then SW. JJ had a rough three games, can't argue with that, but to just totally give up on him is ridiculous, especially since your anointed one, SW, hasn't shown any glimpses that screams he is the one. Has he made as many mistakes as JJ, no. But he also hasn't done anything to say, yep, he can beat the upper-tier programs we will be facing soon. At least with JJ, IF he corrects his mistakes, he has unlimited potential, which then will help the offense. Seems like you'll be disappointed though, seems like JJ, as of right now, will be starting against Kentucky...

Make up your mind, 101. Is SW playing the real game and getting real play calls or is he only playing from Gus' special conservative 'not lose' playbook? How is he going to do anything "special" handing the ball off for two downs for no gain and then having to throw on 3rd and 9?

I hope you're right about JJ, that his potential is unlimited compared to the little young guy who's only been outplaying him. This team needs some good news.

[Auburnguy101 325]

Been watching this discussion for past 2 weekend and I thin Cole has legitimate question. I think our expectationof JJ was so high it was easy to be negative about his play.

It wasn't just OUR expectations. It was the " experts " from those who watch college all across the country. Many were placing JJ on the Heisman watch list, due to this glimpsed work and athletic potential. Problem is, JJ simply isn't a gamer.

IMO SW play has not been much different. Based on where the receiver was on the long pass, SW missed the receiver. He has put the ball on the turf a few times and been fortunate not to lose them.I can only believe the reason we do not throw more is because of what the coaches see in practice.

Sean has been too careless w/ the ball when he runs, but he's not turned it over. Nor has he thrown 6 INTS. He has shown better decision making than Jeremy, I don't think that's much in doubt.

I see very little difference with SW at QB. We looked extremely lethargic Sat and against Moo State we didn't cross the goal line. Season is in the tank. I say live and die with JJ and start looking for a JC QB or transfer for next year if Jj does not improve.

We've already died w/ JJ. Too late for him to get his head back in the game, imo. Sean is the best option for us to move forward. Even if he's less capable in some areas, he's going to try. Something Jeremy seems unwilling to do.

Already died w/JJ? That's one of the most asinine comment I've heard. I really hope you've never been a coach, or else you would have no players left to play for you, unless they were perfect with everything. I'm not discounting or apologizing about the mistakes JJ made in those 3 games, but damn, he doesn't get to redeem himself? Last time I checked, Jason Campbell, Brandon Cox, Ben Leard, and Stan White, off the top of my head, struggled throughout their careers at first before adjusting to the game. Am I saying JJ will absolutely do that? No. Can he? Yes. He has wayyyy more potential then SW. JJ had a rough three games, can't argue with that, but to just totally give up on him is ridiculous, especially since your anointed one, SW, hasn't shown any glimpses that screams he is the one. Has he made as many mistakes as JJ, no. But he also hasn't done anything to say, yep, he can beat the upper-tier programs we will be facing soon. At least with JJ, IF he corrects his mistakes, he has unlimited potential, which then will help the offense. Seems like you'll be disappointed though, seems like JJ, as of right now, will be starting against Kentucky...

Make up your mind, 101. Is SW playing the real game and getting real play calls or is he only playing from Gus' special conservative 'not lose' playbook? How is he going to do anything "special" handing the ball off for two downs for no gain and then having to throw on 3rd and 9?

I hope you're right about JJ, that his potential is unlimited compared to the little young guy who's only been outplaying him. This team needs some good news.

Yea, I've made my mind up on who has more potential. And I believe anyone with football knowledge can tell you that as well. Look, I'm not here to defend JJ. I have previously asked why not try Jason Smith, but that's not going to happen at all. So, it's between JJ and SW. Between those two, who has more potential? IF JJ gets his head straight, that would make this offense go. And the thing with SW not being able to show what he can do, well, actually, he has. Albeit in limited throws, he has had a handful of downfield throws, and it hasn't been pretty. Also, it's made clear by the coaching staff they do not trust SW throwing downfield. I like how people try to make it look like I hate SW as a person or that he's no good. I never said that. I think he can be a good QB as game-manager type of offense. I don't know how SW has been outplaying him, but again, we'll agree to disagree. I'm going off potential and if JJ corrects his mistakes, yes, it's obvious who has more potential. It is what it is. I feel like a lot of Auburn fans are going to be disappointed who starts the Kentucky game though. Yes, things can change, but it looks like JJ will be the starter...

[cole256 17,084]

Can someone translate that mess? Are you sure that you graduated college?

Lol, PT. You were able to pull this stuff on the political board, but you don't have anything as far as football huh? Probably why you were kicked out of that. Keep it up. Insulting me don't change the fact you're being dishonest.

Who really keeps posting and trying to fight something they don't care about? Seriously you don't have one post in this thread about football, just....You can't say that because I believe you have to wait lol

This post just proves that you have zero idea of what you're talking about. :laugh:/> No one kicked me out of anything. And go back and read again. I have discussed football in this thread. You just look past it. Until Sean has played enough, we don't have much to compare.

No you don't have enough but cool you've said that again today. Talk to you in the morning when you say it again

[AUFAN78 3,926]

Been watching this discussion for past 2 weekend and I thin Cole has legitimate question. I think our expectationof JJ was so high it was easy to be negative about his play.

It wasn't just OUR expectations. It was the " experts " from those who watch college all across the country. Many were placing JJ on the Heisman watch list, due to this glimpsed work and athletic potential. Problem is, JJ simply isn't a gamer.

IMO SW play has not been much different. Based on where the receiver was on the long pass, SW missed the receiver. He has put the ball on the turf a few times and been fortunate not to lose them.I can only believe the reason we do not throw more is because of what the coaches see in practice.

Sean has been too careless w/ the ball when he runs, but he's not turned it over. Nor has he thrown 6 INTS. He has shown better decision making than Jeremy, I don't think that's much in doubt.

I see very little difference with SW at QB. We looked extremely lethargic Sat and against Moo State we didn't cross the goal line. Season is in the tank. I say live and die with JJ and start looking for a JC QB or transfer for next year if Jj does not improve.

We've already died w/ JJ. Too late for him to get his head back in the game, imo. Sean is the best option for us to move forward. Even if he's less capable in some areas, he's going to try. Something Jeremy seems unwilling to do.

Already died w/JJ? That's one of the most asinine comment I've heard. I really hope you've never been a coach, or else you would have no players left to play for you, unless they were perfect with everything. I'm not discounting or apologizing about the mistakes JJ made in those 3 games, but damn, he doesn't get to redeem himself? Last time I checked, Jason Campbell, Brandon Cox, Ben Leard, and Stan White, off the top of my head, struggled throughout their careers at first before adjusting to the game. Am I saying JJ will absolutely do that? No. Can he? Yes. He has wayyyy more potential then SW. JJ had a rough three games, can't argue with that, but to just totally give up on him is ridiculous, especially since your anointed one, SW, hasn't shown any glimpses that screams he is the one. Has he made as many mistakes as JJ, no. But he also hasn't done anything to say, yep, he can beat the upper-tier programs we will be facing soon. At least with JJ, IF he corrects his mistakes, he has unlimited potential, which then will help the offense. Seems like you'll be disappointed though, seems like JJ, as of right now, will be starting against Kentucky...

Make up your mind, 101. Is SW playing the real game and getting real play calls or is he only playing from Gus' special conservative 'not lose' playbook? How is he going to do anything "special" handing the ball off for two downs for no gain and then having to throw on 3rd and 9?

I hope you're right about JJ, that his potential is unlimited compared to the little young guy who's only been outplaying him. This team needs some good news.

Yea, I've made my mind up on who has more potential. And I believe anyone with football knowledge can tell you that as well. Look, I'm not here to defend JJ. I have previously asked why not try Jason Smith, but that's not going to happen at all. So, it's between JJ and SW. Between those two, who has more potential? IF JJ gets his head straight, that would make this offense go. And the thing with SW not being able to show what he can do, well, actually, he has. Albeit in limited throws, he has had a handful of downfield throws, and it hasn't been pretty. Also, it's made clear by the coaching staff they do not trust SW throwing downfield. I like how people try to make it look like I hate SW as a person or that he's no good. I never said that. I think he can be a good QB as game-manager type of offense. I don't know how SW has been outplaying him, but again, we'll agree to disagree. I'm going off potential and if JJ corrects his mistakes, yes, it's obvious who has more potential. It is what it is. I feel like a lot of Auburn fans are going to be disappointed who starts the Kentucky game though. Yes, things can change, but it looks like JJ will be the starter...

I won't be disappointed. I tend to agree with your assessment. But if JJ doesn't get his head on straight what would you do? I presume it would be similar to what Gus already did.

[cole256 17,084]

The worst thing about the comparison is definitely that by design SW has not had a true chance to show what he can or can't do. I really wish the coaches would open the play book and let the kid work some. I'm sure mistakes will be made as it happens to the best of them. But to put him in handcuffed, and then try to compare him with someone whom seemed to have plenty chances to throw the ball the first 3 games is unfair at best.

I really can't decide my opinion on the op and it's really hard to read thru all the non football posts. If the op is insinuating that one QB is being treated worse than the other because of anything other than play on field compared to prior experience and expectations, I can't understand that?

That was sort of my point. I started this thread after the miss st game as I noticed they weren't doing anything but sideline throws, screens and the two deep pass. Now after the sjs came it became more apparent that they aren't really letting him play so like you are saying now I saw this back then and I was asking what was the point. SW was doing what jj was doing except I'm assuming they asked jj more because they expected more from him and he threw more picks. I was saying if that's the case they could have just cut down jj passes as he completed the sideline and screen throws himself. Then I also said that white does run and since him and jj were doing the same job and jj wasn't head and shoulders above him they should keep him as the starter now that they made the decision but I didn't really understand the decision.

Now second part I feel so so about the pick sw threw. One hand it was his first game. Other hand I have to imagine sitting and going over film with Jeremy he's heard them go over the things with Jeremy and he had several examples. Then that's both qb's apparently not understanding the concept of throwing the ball away.

As far as the other stuff it's plain as day and I said the example quite a bit when you look at these two guys one pick games jj's it was described as 1 pick should have been two. SW's is described as one that wasn't that bad and no mention of the two others that should have been picked. I also saw and I'm sure you have too about that pass that slipped out of jj's hand described as one of the worst things in the world as if he did something unheard of and SW has put the ball down WAY too many times and I think I've read maybe two posts of somebody bringing that up and I'm just saying I don't understand that and I'm going to critique both of them the same. That apparently made some mad.

The need several games to watch is stupid. I didn't need to watch more than the miss st game to see they were handcuffing SW and said as much and the next game other people noticed it too. Now if they let him play against Kentucky cool but they still knew they were going to handcuff him the prior games. I say if you're going to make the change believe in him.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

The irony. Oh the irony. :laugh:/>

Full blown PT now LMAO!

Cole

May be showing my age but.....PT? WTH is that? I know what LMAO is......anyways I assume you read my post from this morning? We cool now?

[alexava 6,973]

The irony. Oh the irony. :laugh:/>

Full blown PT now LMAO!

Cole

May be showing my age but.....PT? WTH is that? I know what LMAO is......anyways I assume you read my post from this morning? We cool now?

you must not frequent the political forum?

[wdefromtx 3,159]

The irony. Oh the irony. :laugh:/>

Full blown PT now LMAO!

Cole

May be showing my age but.....PT? WTH is that? I know what LMAO is......anyways I assume you read my post from this morning? We cool now?

you must not frequent the political forum?

I avoid that mess for the most part.

[Strychnine 1,803]

The irony. Oh the irony. :laugh:/>

Full blown PT now LMAO!

Cole

May be showing my age but.....PT? WTH is that? I know what LMAO is......anyways I assume you read my post from this morning? We cool now?

you must not frequent the political forum?

I avoid that mess for the most part.

You should probably consider that a wise move, and continue to do so.

[cole256 17,084]

The irony. Oh the irony. :laugh:/>

Full blown PT now LMAO!

Cole

May be showing my age but.....PT? WTH is that? I know what LMAO is......anyways I assume you read my post from this morning? We cool now?

you must not frequent the political forum?

I avoid that mess for the most part.

You should probably consider that a wise move, and continue to do so.

Lol

[cole256 17,084]

The irony. Oh the irony. :laugh:/>

Full blown PT now LMAO!

Cole

May be showing my age but.....PT? WTH is that? I know what LMAO is......anyways I assume you read my post from this morning? We cool now?

We never weren't cool bro, we just disagreed. I can really say there isn't more than 5 people I'd actually say I just don't like at all.

PT is proud tiger. He is one of those guys. But weegs just did a couple of things pt always does in the political forum when he doesn't have a point. The irony thing he said was actually something I said to him in another post because somebody was saying there was no point of his post and his reply was aren't we here to discuss (paraphrasing but you could see why I said well this is ironic) and the second thing pt does when he doesn't have anything is say something about punctuation or grammar and insult your intelligence. Imo this is when you know you won the debate.

Weegs isn't usually like that. Imo and I could be wrong, I think he keeps coming in doing that to initiate a back and forth but of course if it gets personal a mod will lock it, this completing what he's been crying about since I posted this...to be locked since he doesn't agree with my opinion. Once again that's just what I believe.

[cole256 17,084]

I hate to say this but we should've handled our qb stuff like bammer. JJ earned the start from last year when it became it was questionable and lost the security we should have started SW if that's what he wanted and when SW struggled a bit brought JJ in. Then did it the same way against sjs and so forth and everybody could watch what we have and watch whoever wins it win it. This way nobody isn't getting flamed by the fans and the team isn't divided and respects the process. Everybody feels at every position it's earned on the field, no favorites and no dog houses. Imo

[alexava 6,973]

I hate to say this but we should've handled our qb stuff like bammer. JJ earned the start from last year when it became it was questionable and lost the security we should have started SW if that's what he wanted and when SW struggled a bit brought JJ in. Then did it the same way against sjs and so forth and everybody could watch what we have and watch whoever wins it win it. This way nobody isn't getting flamed by the fans and the team isn't divided and respects the process. Everybody feels at every position it's earned on the field, no favorites and no dog houses. Imo

i prefer to change qbs during a game instead of tuesday. You don't have to go the whole game with one guy. When gus finally decided to name sw the qb, i think it was out of necessity. To save jj's mind, not just football. He had too much on him. I hope he gets his bearings back and i hope gus learned more than jj, when it comes to controlling expectations.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

The irony. Oh the irony. :laugh:/>

Full blown PT now LMAO!

Cole

May be showing my age but.....PT? WTH is that? I know what LMAO is......anyways I assume you read my post from this morning? We cool now?

We never weren't cool bro, we just disagreed. I can really say there isn't more than 5 people I'd actually say I just don't like at all.

PT is proud tiger. He is one of those guys. But weegs just did a couple of things pt always does in the political forum when he doesn't have a point. The irony thing he said was actually something I said to him in another post because somebody was saying there was no point of his post and his reply was aren't we here to discuss (paraphrasing but you could see why I said well this is ironic) and the second thing pt does when he doesn't have anything is say something about punctuation or grammar and insult your intelligence. Imo this is when you know you won the debate.

Weegs isn't usually like that. Imo and I could be wrong, I think he keeps coming in doing that to initiate a back and forth but of course if it gets personal a mod will lock it, this completing what he's been crying about since I posted this...to be locked since he doesn't agree with my opinion. Once again that's just what I believe.

Makes sense. Thought PT might have been referencing someone.

As far as the QBs, I think it was mishandled to an extent. I think JJ will hopefully can get back to what we thought. I think there was (hopefully not still is) major dysfunction in the team, and JJs performance was a symptom. He took the heat because well he is the starting QB. I think there was more mishandled than the QB. Gus seemed more genuine yesterday so I'm hoping he finally took ownership to keep this team together.

The way I see it, is he needs to pick one and stick with them. Don't look back. Barring a complete meltdown.

I'll give JJ a pass because I don't think he had a proper support as neither did SW. However pulling JJ at the time was needed at least in the short term, but maybe not the long term solution at this point.

[cole256 17,084]

We agree in that sense then, I say put them out there and let's really see what they can do. No handcuffs, they both were out there looking like robots. Let them just open up and play and let the best man win. Everybody looks good when it goes like planned, the best qb's and he greatest moments are the ones that can improvise

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,704]

I think Sean is a better decision maker throwing than Jeremy or at least knows how to throw less picks. I also believe Jeremy has a far higher upside than Sean. Malzahn likely put Sean in just because he himself thought Jeremy was the problem and was just desperate for a spark. If he could actually figure out the problem (mainly it being himself and this offensive line), and had the offense resembling anything its supposed to have looked like back when we weren't horrible (spring 2015), Jeremy would probably return.

I genuinely do not believe Cole is the only individual who wants to see Jeremy return, but as of the past two weeks, I feel it was just more safe to go with Sean, get to this bye week, and see what left you have in Jeremy.

Now, whoever we have at QB is irrelevant mind you, if we can't figure out how to block at least on an AVERAGE scale against good defenses and Malzahn can't figure out how to call an entire game.

Man thanks. I don't want to see jj return, my thing is what was the point if we were going to dumb down the offense? Also some have started asking on this board, just not in this thread but I made this thread first but it seems like we may have a problem developing qb's.

Lastly, as I stated in another thread your last post is what I was trying to tell everybody before a qb change. So I do admit frustration of getting flamed and ridicule from people when I talked about the o line and wr and now some of the same people flaming me because I was basically right.

No problem, none of the problems that were there with Jeremy as starter has magically disappeared so why not go back to him? They have the same record, Gus favors Jeremy, maybe Jeremy has cleared his mind after what will be 3 weeks and some change off, and hell, maybe he even plays inspired with his former roommate and friend gone now.

[N2AUtigers 5]

I'm starting to come around to putting JJ back in as well. Especially since the coaches don't seem to trust SW to do much, no matter what CGM says in pressers. I guess I really see our running game being controlled very easily by the better SEC defenses, and I really want to see some 1st and 10,and some 2 and 5 passes down the field. If your not willing to pass on running downs, you can PA all day long and it's not fooling anyone. Guess I'm saying if they don't trust SW to pull the trigger on some 1st and 10 PA vertical passes down the field, put JJ back in and let's hope they let him do that for the sake of our running game? If that logic makes sense?

Oh and hope he doesn't throw to many pics..

[WarTim 3,457]

Gus will make the call. If JJ plays, it will be because Gus thinks that is our best shot at a W. JMHO....Time will tell.......

[NoALtiger 3,868]

Gus will make the call. If JJ plays, it will be because Gus thinks that is our best shot at a W. JMHO....Time will tell.......

I would imagine that would be the case in all instances. Is Gus gonna put a player out there that he doesn't think gives us the best shot at a W? I'd hope not.

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

Anybody ever think that maybe the reason we haven't really thrown too much with Sean White is because our staff doesn't trust the WR core enough? Just a thought!

[alexava 6,973]

We agree in that sense then, I say put them out there and let's really see what they can do. No handcuffs, they both were out there looking like robots. Let them just open up and play and let the best man win. Everybody looks good when it goes like planned, the best qb's and he greatest moments are the ones that can improvise

i just thought JJ got shell shocked and didn't mentally recover. I still think he is capable. He wasn't mentally prepared for what went wrong, and a lot went wrong. His benching was for him to regroup. All about confidence. He is a good kid, smart kid, extremely talented. I think gus is an awesome coach but needs to learn to be a psychologist. Sean has not done anything to lose the job. But gus never named him the permanent starter. I think he is just trying to get Jeremy back in the right frame of mind.

[McLoofus 35,182]

We agree in that sense then, I say put them out there and let's really see what they can do. No handcuffs, they both were out there looking like robots. Let them just open up and play and let the best man win. Everybody looks good when it goes like planned, the best qb's and he greatest moments are the ones that can improvise

i just thought JJ got shell shocked and didn't mentally recover. I still think he is capable. He wasn't mentally prepared for what went wrong, and a lot went wrong. His benching was for him to regroup. All about confidence. He is a good kid, smart kid, extremely talented. I think gus is an awesome coach but needs to learn to be a psychologist. Sean has not done anything to lose the job. But gus never named him the permanent starter. I think he is just trying to get Jeremy back in the right frame of mind.

I want to look this post in the eye and give it a firm handshake.

[AURealist 2,185]

We agree in that sense then, I say put them out there and let's really see what they can do. No handcuffs, they both were out there looking like robots. Let them just open up and play and let the best man win. Everybody looks good when it goes like planned, the best qb's and he greatest moments are the ones that can improvise

i just thought JJ got shell shocked and didn't mentally recover. I still think he is capable. He wasn't mentally prepared for what went wrong, and a lot went wrong. His benching was for him to regroup. All about confidence. He is a good kid, smart kid, extremely talented. I think gus is an awesome coach but needs to learn to be a psychologist. Sean has not done anything to lose the job. But gus never named him the permanent starter. I think he is just trying to get Jeremy back in the right frame of mind.

How long do we wait?

[alexava 6,973]

We agree in that sense then, I say put them out there and let's really see what they can do. No handcuffs, they both were out there looking like robots. Let them just open up and play and let the best man win. Everybody looks good when it goes like planned, the best qb's and he greatest moments are the ones that can improvise

i just thought JJ got shell shocked and didn't mentally recover. I still think he is capable. He wasn't mentally prepared for what went wrong, and a lot went wrong. His benching was for him to regroup. All about confidence. He is a good kid, smart kid, extremely talented. I think gus is an awesome coach but needs to learn to be a psychologist. Sean has not done anything to lose the job. But gus never named him the permanent starter. I think he is just trying to get Jeremy back in the right frame of mind.

How long do we wait?

good question. till it happens i guess.

[meh130 1,047]

Without full contact practices, how can CGM and CRL know JJ is ready?