Question for Golf and/or WarDamnEagleWDE

[WarTim 3,456]

So, hypothetically, A player is taught and shown how to play with the proper technique, but on game day does it his own way and plays well 55% of the snaps, whose fault is it? And before you say bench him, the player's back up is worse and far more ineffective due to some reason.

To me, a coach can be the greatest coach ever, but if the player fails to accept responsibility for his play and isn't accountable to himself or his teammates, then the product on the field will be bad no matter the coaching. Coaches coach, but players play.

Darn it Bird!! You have introduced LOGIC and COMMON SENSE into the thread !!!

[wareagleguy 1,393]

So, hypothetically, A player is taught and shown how to play with the proper technique, but on game day does it his own way and plays well 55% of the snaps, whose fault is it? And before you say bench him, the player's back up is worse and far more ineffective due to some reason.

To me, a coach can be the greatest coach ever, but if the player fails to accept responsibility for his play and isn't accountable to himself or his teammates, then the product on the field will be bad no matter the coaching. Coaches coach, but players play.

Do you think it is more physical or mental with this bunch? I know with WM saying something to the effect that they were asked to scale back, makes me lean more to the latter. I'm not sure why this is so, but it seems it is.

Mental, IMO We are making the same mistakes over and over again, and I guarantee CWM isn't coaching the LB's to routinely over run plays etc.

Yep, pretty much what I was thinking too. I'm sure WM has drilled this over and over and over. And yet, here we are still making the same mistakes. The DBs seem to be playing better coverage over all, though they still need to do better adjusting to the ball and getting their heads around.

[IronMan70 3,277]

I don't think it has to be one or the other. I think it's a bit of both...............

.......Like I said, I see both sides and I see both issues at work. The coaches are probably 75% to blame for the position this team is currently in, but on an individual level, the players are too since they're the ones that actually do the dirty work.

Your entire post was good. I especially liked your opening and closing statements. That is where I come down on the issue as well.

[ausburn 159]

So, hypothetically, A player is taught and shown how to play with the proper technique, but on game day does it his own way and plays well 55% of the snaps, whose fault is it? And before you say bench him, the player's back up is worse and far more ineffective due to some reason.

To me, a coach can be the greatest coach ever, but if the player fails to accept responsibility for his play and isn't accountable to himself or his teammates, then the product on the field will be bad no matter the coaching. Coaches coach, but players play.

Darn it Bird!! You have introduced LOGIC and COMMON SENSE into the thread !!!

Hang around it won't last for long. Thanks BB

[bigbird 60,567]

So, hypothetically, A player is taught and shown how to play with the proper technique, but on game day does it his own way and plays well 55% of the snaps, whose fault is it? And before you say bench him, the player's back up is worse and far more ineffective due to some reason.

To me, a coach can be the greatest coach ever, but if the player fails to accept responsibility for his play and isn't accountable to himself or his teammates, then the product on the field will be bad no matter the coaching. Coaches coach, but players play.

I understand your point and respect where it's coming from but still disagree. Sure, it's ultimately on the players to perform but when you have this many players failing to perform it points to a systemic problem. That lies at the feet of the coaches.

Is it? Every DC we have had come through the last 4-5 years have been successful before and after their time at AU. Our HC has been successful at every stop he has been at. Our position coaches are some of the most respected in the nation and have been thought of that way throughout their careers. They did got gain those reputations while at AU. So what is the constant through the past 4 years? Not the coaching...

That said, I am not saying it is all on the players. The coaches have a large part of this too, but when you change the coaches and end up with the same product then that points towards one distinct area

[McLoofus 35,182]

Boy, these coaches sure do make a lot of money for folks who don't really affect what happens on Saturdays.

[chimesAU 89]

So, hypothetically, A player is taught and shown how to play with the proper technique, but on game day does it his own way and plays well 55% of the snaps, whose fault is it? And before you say bench him, the player's back up is worse and far more ineffective due to some reason.

To me, a coach can be the greatest coach ever, but if the player fails to accept responsibility for his play and isn't accountable to himself or his teammates, then the product on the field will be bad no matter the coaching. Coaches coach, but players play.

I understand your point and respect where it's coming from but still disagree. Sure, it's ultimately on the players to perform but when you have this many players failing to perform it points to a systemic problem. That lies at the feet of the coaches.

Is it? Every DC we have had come through the last 4-5 years have been successful before and after their time at AU. Our HC has been successful at every stop he has been at. Our position coaches are some of the most respected in the nation and have been thought of that way throughout their careers. They did got gain those reputations while at AU. So what is the constant through the past 4 years? Not the coaching...

That said, I am not saying it is all on the players. The coaches have a large part of this too, but when you change the coaches and end up with the same product then that points towards one distinct area

But the players are changing too. And who's bringing these players to Auburn? I also don't think you can compare Gus' success coaching HS and coordinating college to leading an SEC program.

[chimesAU 89]

Boy, these coaches sure do make a lot of money for folks who don't really affect what happens on Saturdays.

[bigbird 60,567]

Think of it like this. An air traffic controller radios up to an airplane on its final decent and tells him to land on runway 51. The Pilot proceeds to descend and lands on runway 15 which is 100 ft shorter than runway 51. The plane skids off and burst into flames. Who's to blame? The person telling the pilot what to do, or the pilot that is in control of the landing?

To say that these coaches brought these players to AU is not really a fair statement. I'll give you the Freshman and sophomores, but if you look they are some of the brighter spots on game day.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,368]

Seems to me that this argument closely resembles the "what came first? Chicken or the egg?" debate.

[bigbird 60,567]

However, we should have a definitive answer when the seniors move on.

[chimesAU 89]

Think of it like this. An air traffic controller radios up to an airplane on its final decent and tells him to land on runway 51. The Pilot proceeds to descend and lands on runway 15 which is 100 ft shorter than runway 51. The plane skids off and burst into flames. Who's to blame? The person telling the pilot what to do, or the pilot that is in control of the landing?

To say that these coaches brought these players to AU is not really a fair statement. I'll give you the Freshman and sophomores, but if you look they are some of the brighter spots on game day.

That's just not an accurate comparison. Coaches don't just tell players what to do. They teach them how to do it while building mental strength and team chemistry. They also hold players accountable for their mistakes( everybody makes them) in a way that limits future occurrences of said mistake.

[tgr4lfe 220]

tOSU says hi.

The difference being that OSU can recruit and get pretty much any kid in the BIG10 area they want. OSU has virtually no competition in recruiting, especially considering how bad UM has been the past few years. If Um is on the rise then that might change some, but OSU has had their fill of getting the best of the best from that area without a problem. Our learning on the job HC is battling, in state with the turds, and all around states next door with other SEC monsters, making matters much more difficult for him.

[Butthead 525]

so Chimes -- au hires you to be AD tomorrow. what would you do? serious question.

personally, I am sick that auburn, with the resources at its disposal, cannot seem to put together a string of winning football teams.

[chimesAU 89]

Using your example of an air traffic controller... If fifteen planes land on the wrong runway in one day, is there a higher probability that each individual pilot is to blame or the person directing the pilots where to land? Which is more logical?

[OnthePlains 2,014]

I don't disagree with either side as I think the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. However, every single AU coach I know some history about including the ones that the field and stadium are named after had disappointing seasons during their tenure. Every single coach since Dye has had a dumpster fire type season during their tenure. It does make you start to wonder if there is something else going on with Auburn that causes these seasons to occur no matter the coach. Whether it's the long rumored booster interference or administration issues I don't know but it's not as if Gus is experiencing something his predecessors didn't and I don't think that Bowden, Tubbs, Chiz and Gus all forgot how to coach all of a sudden.

[chimesAU 89]

so Chimes -- au hires you to be AD tomorrow. what would you do? serious question.

personally, I am sick that auburn, with the resources at its disposal, cannot seem to put together a string of winning football teams.

Honestly, I would keep Gus for 2 reasons- His buyout is massive and this program needs some consistency. I'd sit down with Gus and make him show me his plan to get the program under control. I would make it absolutely clear that I expect to see a fundamentally sound football team take the field each week. I would send RL packing and find an OC who could develop QBs and challenge Gus' way of thinking.

[keesler 5,924]

A few good Deming quotes:

It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best.

If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing. (Sound familiar?)

It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory.

The big problems are where people don't realise they have one in the first place.

Love it!

[McLoofus 35,182]

Using your example of an air traffic controller... If fifteen planes land on the wrong runway in one day, is there a higher probability that each individual pilot is to blame or the person directing the pilots where to land? Which is more logical?

Bingo. You don't get humiliated by LSU or go to OT with an FCS team if only one pilot lands on the wrong runway.

Maybe more appropriately, if multiple pilots from the same pilot school land on the wrong runway, then people should and would have questions about the pilot school.

I have no interest in beating up on the coaches, really. Just from a logical perspective, I don't see how they get a pass on this.

[cole256 17,084]

Airplanes.....Really?

[keesler 5,924]

I understand your point and respect where it's coming from but still disagree. Sure, it's ultimately on the players to perform but when you have this many players failing to perform it points to a systemic problem. That lies at the feet of the coaches.

Damn straight!

If you have a player or two not pulling their weight and not executing, that's on the player. When there appears to be mass confussion and overall lack of execution ---> coaches.

When neither line can control the LOS ---> coaching. When you have a QB that can't read defenses, make progressions, make good decisions on the field and ends up on the bench after being in the offense for 2 1/2 yrs ---> coaching. Poor roster management, lack of recruiting defensive talent resulting in thin depth and subpar talent ---> coach. When players show lack of the basic fundamentals tackling, blocking, route running ---> coaching. When upperclassmen still aren't playing up to their potential and aren't developing ---> coach.

If we saw the exact same performance from another team and it existed for damn near 12 months, we'd all be pointing fingers at the COACH.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Airplanes.....Really?

Top 5 songs about planes, GO

In no order:

-Steam Powered Aereo Plane by John Hartford

-Paper Planes by M.I.A.

-Airplane by Widespread Panic

-Gonna Be a Blackout Tonight by Dropkick Murphys

-Aces High by Iron Maiden

Hmmm... I should probably think about this a little longer.

[cole256 17,084]

Who sings the leaving on an airplane, don't know when I'll be back again...that's number 1

[Always AU 0]

Leaving on a JET PLANE Written by John Denver and recorded by Peter, Paul and Mary

#1 is Jet Airliner by Steve Miller

[wareagleguy 1,393]

Who sings the leaving on an airplane, don't know when I'll be back again...that's number 1

Written by John Denver and recorded by him.

But you probably know Peter, Paul and Mary's version the best.