2016 3* JUCO QB/ATH John Franklin III (AU commit 11/4/15)

[auclong 1]

After reading the first page of this post I remember why I rarely come here anymore. Bunch of over opinioned people with little real knowledge of football, recruiting or coaching but a great idea of how to fix everything while denigrating the one bright spot we have had other than barber on offense. JMHO and have a great day

[cole256 17,066]

SW's streak of passes without an interception is the fourth longest in Auburn history. And that's even though he's throwing on must-pass downs because our coaches are committed to the first down run. No top JUCO quarterback with only two years left to play is going to come here and compete with White unless there are mitigating circumstances. White may not be a superior athlete, but he's a good athlete and a "coach on the field".

The zone read was good to us when we had superior athletes running an offense to which defenses weren't accustomed. Franklin may be a superior athlete, but the offense is no longer unique. Take a look at the last half of 2014.

Not going to get into an argument, but only two games last year where our offense stunk it up: Miss. State and UGA. All of the other games, like last half of 2014, as you are stating, was all on the defense. So, it's the offense's fault we lost to UAT, Texas A&M, & Wisconsin, where we average almost 38 points in those games? Our offense was not the problem at all. If we had any defense, we would have won a minimum of 10 games. It is what it is though, we lost those games. Also, NM is probably #3 or #4 all-time at QB for Auburn, so slow your roll on SW. Yea, he hasn't thrown an interception since Miss. State. Good for him. However, he's not winning games for us either. NM did that. I ask again. You think SW would have put up 44 points on UAT last year? Or been able to carry us to the National Championship in 2013 with only fall camp to prove himself? Seriously though, and be honest. Would you take SW or NM if you had to pick a QB for the type of offense we run?

I'll bite.

You are correct. SW is not winning us games (he is also not losing games for us like JJ was on track to do, but that's neither here nor there). Yes a 21 year old Nick Marshall was the driving force in winning games for us and made huge, important, key, clutch plays down the stretch to help AU win games and win the SEC Championship. And yes a 22 year old Nick Marshall put up 44 points on one of the best defenses in the country last year.

However, you are comparing a 19 year old freshman SW to NM in Marshall's most experienced years. When SW is 21 and 22 years old as a junior and senior, it is my opinion that, I think he will be able to put up similar numbers as NM and be close to equal to NM as far as overall effectiveness. They will just be in a different manner (mostly through the air as opposed to using the ground numbers to launch his passing numbers). His throws are on the money for the most part (even Tom Brady doesn't throw 100% of his passes on target) and he will only get better from here on out, even if his stats don't show that because the level of competition he will face will get better and better to close the season. He is literally only 4 games into his career right now with zero benefit of taking first team reps in practice prior to JJ imploding. Not saying he has no holes in his game or is perfect, but I think SW can develop into a very good QB. His pocket awareness and ability to get outside of the pocket and scan the field does not look like that of someone who has such limited experience as he does.

He might even look better than Jason Campbell did when he was a RS-FR IMO

JMO but that drive to get the game tying FG against ARKY was probably as good as anything NM did at AU...and doing it with far less talent IMO.

I don't know how any reasonable person gets off with comparing a RS freshman with 3 starts against a guy who had played serious football for 3 seasons before 2014.

But, just in case people did not check, SW has a higher "career" completion percentage thus far and a higher number of passing yards per game...for his short career.

Smh at that first paragraph...

[AUApostle 7,651]

I think offering Franklin says JJ's time at AU is done. And that's a pretty educated "think".

Unless he graduates by the end of the Summer he can't go anywhere for his senior year.

Why not? He can redshirt next year and still play a year at Div 1.

[aubearcat 2,137]

I think offering Franklin says JJ's time at AU is done. And that's a pretty educated "think".

Unless he graduates by the end of the Summer he can't go anywhere for his senior year.

He could go to an FCS school like the hometown ASU.

[Tigercj 242]

After reading the first page of this post I remember why I rarely come here anymore. Bunch of over opinioned people with little real knowledge of football, recruiting or coaching but a great idea of how to fix everything while denigrating the one bright spot we have had other than barber on offense. JMHO and have a great day

Agree with that.

[tinman 305]

He could also play basketball for Pearl. He was a heck of a bball player in high school.

[Mikey 16,598]

JJ could redshirt and play at any big school that wants him, or he could graduate (if he qualifies to graduate) and do the same, or he could go to a smaller school and play next year. He has lots of options if he decides to leave Auburn.

[Timeslider 6 269]

JJ could redshirt and play at any big school that wants him, or he could graduate (if he qualifies to graduate) and do the same, or he could go to a smaller school and play next year. He has lots of options if he decides to leave Auburn.

Hasn't he already burned his redshirt?

[McLoofus 35,182]

JJ could redshirt and play at any big school that wants him, or he could graduate (if he qualifies to graduate) and do the same, or he could go to a smaller school and play next year. He has lots of options if he decides to leave Auburn.

Hasn't he already burned his redshirt?

No. All players have 5 years to play 4 seasons. He has played 3 seasons in 3 years. He has 2 years left to play 1 more season.

[JFDTiger80 790]

@jf3_5: Just got officially offered by the University of Auburn. God just keeps blessing me and I am BLESSED!!! #Tigers #JF3 https://t.co/4EjINRgyFU

why do this with White appearing to improve with 3 more years of eligibility?

and with Woody Barrett committed?

granted, it is being reported that he runs a 4.38 40 and a 10.5 100 meters...

If he runs a 4.38, he can play for me.

[Tiger 8,826]

SW's streak of passes without an interception is the fourth longest in Auburn history. And that's even though he's throwing on must-pass downs because our coaches are committed to the first down run. No top JUCO quarterback with only two years left to play is going to come here and compete with White unless there are mitigating circumstances. White may not be a superior athlete, but he's a good athlete and a "coach on the field".

The zone read was good to us when we had superior athletes running an offense to which defenses weren't accustomed. Franklin may be a superior athlete, but the offense is no longer unique. Take a look at the last half of 2014.

Not going to get into an argument, but only two games last year where our offense stunk it up: Miss. State and UGA. All of the other games, like last half of 2014, as you are stating, was all on the defense. So, it's the offense's fault we lost to UAT, Texas A&M, & Wisconsin, where we average almost 38 points in those games? Our offense was not the problem at all. If we had any defense, we would have won a minimum of 10 games. It is what it is though, we lost those games. Also, NM is probably #3 or #4 all-time at QB for Auburn, so slow your roll on SW. Yea, he hasn't thrown an interception since Miss. State. Good for him. However, he's not winning games for us either. NM did that. I ask again. You think SW would have put up 44 points on UAT last year? Or been able to carry us to the National Championship in 2013 with only fall camp to prove himself? Seriously though, and be honest. Would you take SW or NM if you had to pick a QB for the type of offense we run?

I'll bite.

You are correct. SW is not winning us games (he is also not losing games for us like JJ was on track to do, but that's neither here nor there). Yes a 21 year old Nick Marshall was the driving force in winning games for us and made huge, important, key, clutch plays down the stretch to help AU win games and win the SEC Championship. And yes a 22 year old Nick Marshall put up 44 points on one of the best defenses in the country last year.

However, you are comparing a 19 year old freshman SW to NM in Marshall's most experienced years. When SW is 21 and 22 years old as a junior and senior, it is my opinion that, I think he will be able to put up similar numbers as NM and be close to equal to NM as far as overall effectiveness. They will just be in a different manner (mostly through the air as opposed to using the ground numbers to launch his passing numbers). His throws are on the money for the most part (even Tom Brady doesn't throw 100% of his passes on target) and he will only get better from here on out, even if his stats don't show that because the level of competition he will face will get better and better to close the season. He is literally only 4 games into his career right now with zero benefit of taking first team reps in practice prior to JJ imploding. Not saying he has no holes in his game or is perfect, but I think SW can develop into a very good QB. His pocket awareness and ability to get outside of the pocket and scan the field does not look like that of someone who has such limited experience as he does.

He might even look better than Jason Campbell did when he was a RS-FR IMO

I respect your opinion. We'll agree to disagree. I think SW would be great if we chose to go back to Gus' days at Tulsa or when we had Chris Todd. However, SW is not fit for the zone-read option that made our program become a national title contender. It's why I am biased towards that kind of offense. We are nearly unstoppable with a DT QB, and I want to see that again. However, IF Gus wants to go back to his Tulsa days, SW will be the QB, simple as that. I have facts and evidence that back up my opinion about DT QBs in this offense. You and others are basing your opinion on hope and Gus' success in C-USA. Don't bring up Chris Todd, because our offense was terrible when we played against teams with actual defenses. I would rather go with the offense that has won us 2 SEC championships and 1 National Championship and another National Championship appearance. But, I get it, everyone is in love with SW. I think also I just don't get how Auburn fans can just gush over him, and when we had NM, many Auburn fans, including ones on here, always questioned Nick Marshall as our QB, and that's including 2013! It just makes no sense to me how many of you do not seem partisan ,and latch on to a player, and don't use reason and logic to form your opinion. Yes, I know SW is young, but he's not that young. He's 20 years old and he's been in our system for two years now. Nick Marshall was a converted DB and had played only 1 year in JUCO and came into fall camp with limited number of practices and won the job. Yet, people do not recognize how unbelievable that achievement really is. And now we have people who are throwing a love fest over SW, including you, comparing him to Jason Campbell and other greats who had proven themselves. It really irritates me how people can dismiss NM like that. SW would be lucky to accomplish anything like Nick Marshall. Again though, I've read many threads and posts now, and I get that Auburn fans want no one else to succeed other than SW at QB, as evidence by this thread how people are freaking out about the possibility of a JUCO QB coming to Auburn. It is what it is though...

I'm not necessarily thinking that you're wrong but I just felt your comparison of SW to NM was off if for only we have seen White just play for a few games. I totally respect the DT QB aspect and what it brings to the O as I was previously on board with only using DT QBs. But I think SW's passing is good enough to make it work. We can agree to disagree however I am not a SW fanboy I just think he has the potential to be very good. I want the best QB AU can put on the field period. My support of SW has nothing to do with NM whatsoever. There is something awesome about a QB who can run for 40 yards at any moment just as there is something awesome of a QB who can hit his WRs in the hands most of the time. And maybe I was a little off with the ages, as I was going on the normal ages of college years, but time spent gaining playing time experience is critical in assessing someone who's legacy is complete to someone who just started working on theres.

I compared SW's first few games to Jason Campbell's freshman year. Seems like quite a bit of us forgot that Jason Campbell had people calling for his backup every step of his career at AU until AFTER 2nd game of his senior year. People wanted Brandon Cox in there in the first game of 2004, and yes JC killed it that year but it's not like Campbell was setting the world on fire in his first 3.1 years of his career. I'd argue I'm more confident in SW at this point in his career than I was with Jason Campbell at the same point in his career. Tommy Tuberville said JC could only run a high school offense his first few years.

Bottom line, I'm not "SW or nobody!" and just because I think he can be good doesn't mean I think we should go with only pocket passers or, for some reason, discounting what NM accomplished at AU. I just think SW can be a very impressive QB and we don't have to agree with that but SW love doesn't mean NM hate.

For the record, I still prefer dual threats but I like where Sean White is heading.

[McLoofus 35,182]

For everybody who says that "our offense is more successful with a dual threat quarterback", you're right. It has been. Cam Newton, arguably the greatest athlete to every play the position, was more successful than Chris Todd, a quarterback with a bum throwing shoulder and an offensive line and WR corps with a full year's less starts than Cam's had. And Nick Marshall, a guy who was so athletic that he went directly from 3 straight years as a QB to being an NFL CB, was more successful than the 4-headed monster of Kiehl Frazier, Barrett Trotter, Clint Mosely and Jonathan Wallace (two of whom switched positions, while the other two quit football before their eligibility had been used up).

Sean White will be the first chance Gus has had of having an elite non-DT QB at Auburn (I'm not going to call him a "pocket passer" because the kid can move). And remember, Sean spent the most crucial parts of the preseason getting QB2 reps. It takes a LOT of practice to replicate what Marshall was able to do with Mason and Artis-Payne in the zone read (btw, Cam didn't run nearly as much of that as Nick did).

TL;DR Guys like Cam and Nick don't grow even on dual-threat trees, and the non-DT QBs that Gus has had less success with haven't been guys of White's caliber.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

For everybody who says that "our offense is more successful with a dual threat quarterback", you're right. It has been. Cam Newton, arguably the greatest athlete to every play the position, was more successful than Chris Todd, a quarterback with a bum throwing shoulder and an offensive line and WR corps with a full year's less starts than Cam's had. And Nick Marshall, a guy who was so athletic that he went directly from 3 straight years as a QB to being an NFL CB, was more successful than the 4-headed monster of Kiehl Frazier, Barrett Trotter, Clint Mosely and Jonathan Wallace (two of whom switched positions, while the other two quit football before their eligibility had been used up).

Sean White will be the first chance Gus has had of having an elite non-DT QB at Auburn (I'm not going to call him a "pocket passer" because the kid can move). And remember, Sean spent the most crucial parts of the preseason getting QB2 reps. It takes a LOT of practice to replicate what Marshall was able to do with Mason and Artis-Payne in the zone read (btw, Cam didn't run nearly as much of that as Nick did).

TL;DR Guys like Cam and Nick don't grow even on dual-threat trees, and the non-DT QBs that Gus has had less success with haven't been guys of White's caliber.

Preach it brother.

[AU64 10,122]

For everybody who says that "our offense is more successful with a dual threat quarterback", you're right. It has been. Cam Newton, arguably the greatest athlete to every play the position, was more successful than Chris Todd, a quarterback with a bum throwing shoulder and an offensive line and WR corps with a full year's less starts than Cam's had. And Nick Marshall, a guy who was so athletic that he went directly from 3 straight years as a QB to being an NFL CB, was more successful than the 4-headed monster of Kiehl Frazier, Barrett Trotter, Clint Mosely and Jonathan Wallace (two of whom switched positions, while the other two quit football before their eligibility had been used up).

Sean White will be the first chance Gus has had of having an elite non-DT QB at Auburn (I'm not going to call him a "pocket passer" because the kid can move). And remember, Sean spent the most crucial parts of the preseason getting QB2 reps. It takes a LOT of practice to replicate what Marshall was able to do with Mason and Artis-Payne in the zone read (btw, Cam didn't run nearly as much of that as Nick did).

TL;DR Guys like Cam and Nick don't grow even on dual-threat trees, and the non-DT QBs that Gus has had less success with haven't been guys of White's caliber.

Actually the second chance because I think JJ was probably in that category when he was recruited. He was listed as a pro-style QB and other than folks on boards like this, it was never the plan for him to operate as a D-T. So I guess we might say that Gus and Lash are 0 for 1 at the moment.

[McLoofus 35,182]

For everybody who says that "our offense is more successful with a dual threat quarterback", you're right. It has been. Cam Newton, arguably the greatest athlete to every play the position, was more successful than Chris Todd, a quarterback with a bum throwing shoulder and an offensive line and WR corps with a full year's less starts than Cam's had. And Nick Marshall, a guy who was so athletic that he went directly from 3 straight years as a QB to being an NFL CB, was more successful than the 4-headed monster of Kiehl Frazier, Barrett Trotter, Clint Mosely and Jonathan Wallace (two of whom switched positions, while the other two quit football before their eligibility had been used up).

Sean White will be the first chance Gus has had of having an elite non-DT QB at Auburn (I'm not going to call him a "pocket passer" because the kid can move). And remember, Sean spent the most crucial parts of the preseason getting QB2 reps. It takes a LOT of practice to replicate what Marshall was able to do with Mason and Artis-Payne in the zone read (btw, Cam didn't run nearly as much of that as Nick did).

TL;DR Guys like Cam and Nick don't grow even on dual-threat trees, and the non-DT QBs that Gus has had less success with haven't been guys of White's caliber.

Actually the second chance because I think JJ was probably in that category when he was recruited. He was listed as a pro-style QB and other than folks on boards like this, it was never the plan for him to operate as a D-T. So I guess we might say that Gus and Lash are 0 for 1 at the moment.

That's fair. I suppose time will tell whether our coaches "broke" Jeremy or if something between his ears broke for some other reason. Sean's performance so far is making me lean towards the latter.

[AU64 10,122]

"That's fair. I suppose time will tell whether our coaches "broke" Jeremy or if something between his ears broke for some other reason. Sean's performance so far is making me lean towards the latter " McLoofus.

Yep....we've seen more than our share of cases where an Adonis just did not "get it" when he was playing QB.

[Gibson SG 88]

For everybody who says that "our offense is more successful with a dual threat quarterback", you're right. It has been. Cam Newton, arguably the greatest athlete to every play the position, was more successful than Chris Todd, a quarterback with a bum throwing shoulder and an offensive line and WR corps with a full year's less starts than Cam's had. And Nick Marshall, a guy who was so athletic that he went directly from 3 straight years as a QB to being an NFL CB, was more successful than the 4-headed monster of Kiehl Frazier, Barrett Trotter, Clint Mosely and Jonathan Wallace (two of whom switched positions, while the other two quit football before their eligibility had been used up).

Sean White will be the first chance Gus has had of having an elite non-DT QB at Auburn (I'm not going to call him a "pocket passer" because the kid can move). And remember, Sean spent the most crucial parts of the preseason getting QB2 reps. It takes a LOT of practice to replicate what Marshall was able to do with Mason and Artis-Payne in the zone read (btw, Cam didn't run nearly as much of that as Nick did).

TL;DR Guys like Cam and Nick don't grow even on dual-threat trees, and the non-DT QBs that Gus has had less success with haven't been guys of White's caliber.

Yes, Cam was a DT QB, but it wasn't his running that made him great. His passing abilities are what led AU to the NT in 2010. Cam is a better passer than a runner. The running is just icing on the cake. Think about the games he won with his arm in 2010...UAT, SEC CG, BCS CG, etc. I know he had 1,500 yards rushing, but the run was opened up because he could pass so well. The defenses respected his arm that much.

Now, SW has not garnered the respect for his arm from opposing defenses yet, which is why we can't run the ball (that and probably a lot of other reasons too). Once the defenses realize that he is deadly accurate, and we have receivers that can catch, the running game, and particularly SW's running abilities will be opened up.

I guess my point is that you don't really need a DT QB at all when you throw really well. Chris Todd was very successful under Malzahn. He was no Cam, but he did well. He just didn't have a good enough supporting cast.

I think SW will be fine and very successful if CGM doesn't try to turn him into what he is not.

[Potatooooooes!! 1,375]

"That's fair. I suppose time will tell whether our coaches "broke" Jeremy or if something between his ears broke for some other reason. Sean's performance so far is making me lean towards the latter " McLoofus.

Yep....we've seen more than our share of cases where an Adonis just did not "get it" when he was playing QB.

Adonis? You mean the incredibly handsome guy in Greek mythology?

[Potatooooooes!! 1,375]

For everybody who says that "our offense is more successful with a dual threat quarterback", you're right. It has been. Cam Newton, arguably the greatest athlete to every play the position, was more successful than Chris Todd, a quarterback with a bum throwing shoulder and an offensive line and WR corps with a full year's less starts than Cam's had. And Nick Marshall, a guy who was so athletic that he went directly from 3 straight years as a QB to being an NFL CB, was more successful than the 4-headed monster of Kiehl Frazier, Barrett Trotter, Clint Mosely and Jonathan Wallace (two of whom switched positions, while the other two quit football before their eligibility had been used up).

Sean White will be the first chance Gus has had of having an elite non-DT QB at Auburn (I'm not going to call him a "pocket passer" because the kid can move). And remember, Sean spent the most crucial parts of the preseason getting QB2 reps. It takes a LOT of practice to replicate what Marshall was able to do with Mason and Artis-Payne in the zone read (btw, Cam didn't run nearly as much of that as Nick did).

TL;DR Guys like Cam and Nick don't grow even on dual-threat trees, and the non-DT QBs that Gus has had less success with haven't been guys of White's caliber.

Yes, Cam was a DT QB, but it wasn't his running that made him great. His passing abilities are what led AU to the NT in 2010. Cam is a better passer than a runner. The running is just icing on the cake. Think about the games he won with his arm in 2010...UAT, SEC CG, BCS CG, etc. I know he had 1,500 yards rushing, but the run was opened up because he could pass so well. The defenses respected his arm that much.

Now, SW has not garnered the respect for his arm from opposing defenses yet, which is why we can't run the ball (that and probably a lot of other reasons too). Once the defenses realize that he is deadly accurate, and we have receivers that can catch, the running game, and particularly SW's running abilities will be opened up.

I guess my point is that you don't really need a DT QB at all when you throw really well. Chris Todd was very successful under Malzahn. He was no Cam, but he did well. He just didn't have a good enough supporting cast.

I think SW will be fine and very successful if CGM doesn't try to turn him into what he is not.

This is my position as well. Good job. Key phrase, of course, being Supporting Cast. If we don't get receivers that can consintently catch passes, no matter how difficult they are, then we'll always have people claiming we need a DT qb to be successful

[Tiger 8,826]

I'm not buying Cam was a better passer than a runner at AU. Onterio McCaleb owes most of his his 8 ypc or whatever insane stat it was that year to Cam's legs alone. Teams had to commit everyone to try to stop Cam on the ground which let people like Dyer and O-Mac make big plays. O-Mac especially because Cam was a massive threat to run up the middle so the outside became wide open and O-Mac burned teams for it.

[AuburnNTexas 7,147]

CAM was a once in a life time player comparing any of the new players to him is totally unfair. He was great because he had a great arm. He was great because he could run, He was great because in short yardage situations he could run over people. Add to that a very experienced O-Line and some fantastic backs and that was a great Offense. But even with all that look at CAM's first couple of games. It took a while for the coaches to realize what they had and let him be CAM also took him a while to learn the Offense.

SW did not get 1st team reps in the fall or spring but he did run the second team so he knew the offense. Then he got to start in an away game against Miss. State where he managed the game but either wasn't ready to run the whole offense or coaches were protecting him. He improved every game with reps with 1st team. We will know a lot more about SW after next couple of games against Ole Miss and Texas A&M.

[McLoofus 35,182]

CAM was a once in a life time player comparing any of the new players to him is totally unfair. He was great because he had a great arm. He was great because he could run, He was great because in short yardage situations he could run over people. Add to that a very experienced O-Line and some fantastic backs and that was a great Offense. But even with all that look at CAM's first couple of games. It took a while for the coaches to realize what they had and let him be CAM also took him a while to learn the Offense.

SW did not get 1st team reps in the fall or spring but he did run the second team so he knew the offense. Then he got to start in an away game against Miss. State where he managed the game but either wasn't ready to run the whole offense or coaches were protecting him. He improved every game with reps with 1st team. We will know a lot more about SW after next couple of games against Ole Miss and Texas A&M.

Tex on the money as always.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

We played MSU at home IIRC.

[Altima 200]

I'm not buying Cam was a better passer than a runner at AU. Onterio McCaleb owes most of his his 8 ypc or whatever insane stat it was that year to Cam's legs alone. Teams had to commit everyone to try to stop Cam on the ground which let people like Dyer and O-Mac make big plays. O-Mac especially because Cam was a massive threat to run up the middle so the outside became wide open and O-Mac burned teams for it.

Why was Cam drafted number 1 overall? Was it because of his running? ... Hell no, it was because he could throw the ball!

Cam was a good runner, but what made him great is that he was great throwing the ball.

And to your point about teams committing to stop the run... much like bammer, south carolina, and oregon did... he won the game with his arm. He was an unbelievable passer.

[AU4JESUS 0]

Any word on this John Franklin kid? I read the topic title, and thought there would be something about him in the thread. Apparently, that's what I get for thinking.