Sean White named starting QB

[VipersStrike1 230]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

But I'm not yet convinced the offense will be as good as it needs to be without the QB pulling that ball out and popping a 10-15 yarder a few times a game at least.

I'm not convinced the offense will be as good as it needs to be, period. White running the ZR 5-6 times/game won't be the magic missing piece to well-oiled machine. He's still going to end up with a net average of ~ 2 yards per carry for the season, regardless if he runs the ZR none, 5 times, or 10 times a game because he holds the ball at times too long, resulting in sacks.

[ellitor 33,114]

13 minutes ago, VipersStrike1 said:

Serious question...did you feel this way 12 months ago?

Try the past 48 months & there are many here that can back that up if they remember the many posts I have made on JJ's running habits the past 4 or so years. I graduated from Prattville & still go to all their games as well as closely follow the teams in their region. Carver was in Prattville's region when JJ was in high school so I saw most of his games going back to when he was a freshman. I stated from the beginning that even though JJ was a good runner on draws & scrambles he flat out was not comfortable running the ball. In his mind he is a shotgun gun-slinger, not a true dual QB. I took a lot of flack the first year for that opinion.

[ellitor 33,114]

16 minutes ago, VipersStrike1 said:

Worked like a champ with the snail of snails in 2009.

The speed of the QB is next to irrelevant running misdirection with backs and WRs.

It's the timing of the misdirections and slight of hand by the QB that is paramount.

Not to mention you can use a jet sweep fake in the opposite direction of the tailback run to create your misdirection without the QB even running.

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

6 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Not to mention you can use a jet sweep fake in the opposite direction of the tailback run to create your misdirection without the QB even running.

We did that many a time in the past year. If the defense doesn't respect the jet sweep and the Nickel travels with the slot, then it's just more window-dressing. Defensive players are fairly keen on motions. Really motions are more for the QB to get the defense to tip their hand on what they're doing. 

[VipersStrike1 230]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

It wasn't the QB's strong suit at Tulsa in 2007 and 2008 either, and he still ran Paul Smith and David Johnson around 75 and 90 times that year respectively.  Like it or not, it's part of the offense and without it, the running game isn't as effective.

Paul Smith and David Johnson weren't running the ZR as a staple at Tulsa. They would near the goal line because they were big body QBs playing smaller DL in Conference USA, thus they were Gus' classic goal line QB keeper designees.

Smith averaged 1.1 YPC. Johnson averaged 2.0 YPC.

[ellitor 33,114]

5 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

We did that many a time in the past year. If the defense doesn't respect the jet sweep and the Nickel travels with the slot, then it's just more window-dressing. Defensive players are fairly keen on motions. Really motions are more for the QB to get the defense to tip their hand on what they're doing. 

Depends on how dangerous the jet sweeper is & how dangerous the tailback running the other way is. With all due respect to him Barber wasn't very dangerous overall as the tail back opposite a jet sweeper.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,758]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

Maybe, he should get his degree from AU and go the route of Mr. Burns. Doesn't seem like such a bad gig with time and sacrifice. Everything happens for a reason.

He can get his degree this year and spend the next year doing football elsewhere. The thing about Kodi is that Kodi wasn't going to be a QB period. It wasn't his best ability, so I understand him moving. Jeremy is literally only a QB, and there's no conceivable way of him needing to go out there if the two likely people ahead of him don't get hurt.  Hell, Gus'll likely Give Barrett time if it's an actual situation he believes he can develop him. Give him a redshirt, if someone does get hurt (by someone I mean Sean), then he becomes active again. After a year of likely doing nothing here, he goes to a college that needs him, maybe ASU, hometown joint, and has a full year to just have fun playing football. He hasn't had that in this 4 year roller coaster. The man deserves it in my opinion 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,758]

I'm trying to think of a single SEC program that has defensive ends that can't catch Sean White on a zone read. Hell, I don't even know how you set up the threat of Sean White running the ZR. You gotta give the ball to the RB at least 8 straight running plays and hope they collapse every single play and fail to stop the running game, and then MAYBE, Sean can keep it for 6 yards. 

Since we're here in this situation, an offense where the ZR is damn near phased out of the playbook with the emphasis is drawn on the RBs working on actual plays, seems like a better way of doing things. After seeing the pseudo read option fail 2 straight years, I don't think this is the time to make it a staple of your offense again

[ellitor 33,114]

44 minutes ago, VipersStrike1 said:

Paul Smith and David Johnson weren't running the ZR as a staple at Tulsa. They would near the goal line because they were big body QBs playing smaller DL in Conference USA, thus they were Gus' classic goal line QB keeper designees.

Smith averaged 1.1 YPC. Johnson averaged 2.0 YPC.

Your point on the C-USA is valid although the YPC is misleading especially on Johnson because college football has forever wrongly counted sacks to rush total. Per the Tulsa archive stats from 2008 DJ gained 358 yards rushing while losing 172. Most of the losses were probably sacks. Per teamrankings.com DJ was sacked 1.5 times per game. That's 21 in a 14 game season. So his actual rushing stats looked more like 71 carries for 358 yards. Divide by 14 games that's 5 true rush attempts for a 5 yard average per carry. If Gus & company are truly committed to running Sean  some this season  and he stays healthy those true rushing numbers are attainable & enough to move the ball effectively.

[tiger88 934]

Here's my hope: rhett getting involved in the playcalling has greatly hampered things. With Gus being more involved this year we will see much better utilization of our talent. There is little doubt that at times Gus appeared to be furious with rl at times last year. 

I know Gus will want the qb to be an opportunistic runner, but I hope the stuff about the qb running more was a bit of a bluff. We are stacked at receiver if a couple of the new guys play big. If we can throw it around well, we will run well, too. 

2010, 2013, 2016. Anything is possible with the talent we have. I am on the Gus Bus until a crash throws me off, if that happens. 

If wr excel with Gus running more of the O, then I hope rl has been told to save wisely. He has been bankrolled for long enough. 

WDE!

[tiger88 934]

21 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

He can get his degree this year and spend the next year doing football elsewhere. The thing about Kodi is that Kodi wasn't going to be a QB period. It wasn't his best ability, so I understand him moving. Jeremy is literally only a QB, and there's no conceivable way of him needing to go out there if the two likely people ahead of him don't get hurt.  Hell, Gus'll likely Give Barrett time if it's an actual situation he believes he can develop him. Give him a redshirt, if someone does get hurt (by someone I mean Sean), then he becomes active again. After a year of likely doing nothing here, he goes to a college that needs him, maybe ASU, hometown joint, and has a full year to just have fun playing football. He hasn't had that in this 4 year roller coaster. The man deserves it in my opinion 

ISW? 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

2 hours ago, DAG said:

It worked with Chris Todd in 2009. We rarely did any QB read and was very successful running the ball due to the fact that we actually utilized our athletes.

It did work in 09. However this WAS his 1st season at Auburn, and it just seems that defenses aren't as "enamored" with the misdirection and bells and whistles. I could be wrong, I hope I am. Again, not saying you are wrong, I'm just... Well... cautiously optimistic. I REALLY hope the young Fab 4 + Slayton are ready to step up. I have zero confidence in our upperclassmen.

1 hour ago, TAYLORKEETON said:

If you watched some highlights...I lost count of all the read plays he should've kept. He could've had so many more rushing yards last year 

Many more. However, I'm pretty sure they were trying to keep him healthy, and most of those were straight called runs vs reading the DE or OL

1 hour ago, JBiGGiE said:

Quick! Show of hands how many people think Gus Malzahn's offense is the Read Option?

If your hand is still up, please proceed to apply it to your face vigorously. The reason Gus has his reputation is because he's been able to tailor an offense around his weapons (see Auburn 2009, 2010, 2013). I've been excited to see Sean run the show since he won the Elite 11 as an Auburn commit and it is apparent that is our best weapon at QB. If you don't think that Gus and the Auburn Tigers can make something of that, then you have a short memory.

...Sean White was NOT an Auburn commit when he participated in, or won the Elite 11... He committed SHORTLY thereafter.

1 hour ago, VipersStrike1 said:

Worked like a champ with the snail of snails in 2009.

The speed of the QB is next to irrelevant running misdirection with backs and WRs.

It's the timing of the misdirections and slight of hand by the QB that is paramount.

Please see 1st part of this post. 

Again, not saying y'all are wrong. I just think y'all could be putting WAY to much stock in what we did in 09. Plus, its not like we were setting the world on fire with Todd. Sure he set the single season record for passing, but I'm fairly certain most of that was against the lesser competition of the schedule.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

1 hour ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

...Sean White was NOT an Auburn commit when he participated in, or won the Elite 11... He committed SHORTLY thereafter.

Fair enough but splitting hairs. The real point is that Sean is great at what he does and Gus is not limited to running the read option. It's crazy that because Marshall and Mason could run it so fluidly that many of have forgotten that Football can be played any other way. 

[WarTim 3,457]

2 hours ago, JBiGGiE said:

Fair enough but splitting hairs. The real point is that Sean is great at what he does and Gus is not limited to running the read option. It's crazy that because Marshall and Mason could run it so fluidly that many of have forgotten that Football can be played any other way. 

Great post. 

[TitanTiger 20,511]

5 hours ago, VipersStrike1 said:

Nick Marshall didn't average 6 yards a carry in 2014, but it's possible White could?

Kinda true.  College has that quirky rule on stats where sack and the yardage lost are put on the QBs rushing stats even though there was no actual rushing attempt being made (the NFL takes the sack yardage off of the team passing yard totals).  When you back out the sacks, Marshall averaged 6.3 yds per carry in 2014.  

That said, I don't think Sean would average 6 yds a carry either way.  But he could pop a few nice gains a game.

 

 

[TitanTiger 20,511]

4 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I'm trying to think of a single SEC program that has defensive ends that can't catch Sean White on a zone read. Hell, I don't even know how you set up the threat of Sean White running the ZR. You gotta give the ball to the RB at least 8 straight running plays and hope they collapse every single play and fail to stop the running game, and then MAYBE, Sean can keep it for 6 yards. 

The tendency is for DEs to crash down the line on the RB if that is where they think the play is going.  Sure, most SEC DEs could catch White, but not if they're played themselves out of position by keying on the back too hard.  That's what the "read" part is about.  If the DE stays home to negate a QB keeper, you handoff.  But that means there's one less tackler crashing down on the ballcarrier as he's trying to maneuver to daylight.  If the DE gets lulled into thinking the QB keeper is just a fake every time and cheats in, you pull the ball back out and shoot through the gap he left behind.

4 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Since we're here in this situation, an offense where the ZR is damn near phased out of the playbook with the emphasis is drawn on the RBs working on actual plays, seems like a better way of doing things. After seeing the pseudo read option fail 2 straight years, I don't think this is the time to make it a staple of your offense again

How did it fail in 2014?  Marshall rushed for right at 800 yards, averaged 5.2 yards per carry and had 11 TDs on the ground.  That's in addition to the 2500 yards he threw for and Cameron Artis-Payne rushing for over 1600 yards.  Give me more of that kind of failure.

[bigbird 60,580]

6 hours ago, VipersStrike1 said:

Ouch. Don't tell @bigbird and @75 Walk On

Did you even read the article? You really should, 'cause it's an indictment on the inaccuracies of HS 40 times. Which kind of proves how much faster they get out of HS. I wonder how they do that? Did you watch the video of the summer workouts? If so, please explain why the need for the form work. Please explain the purpose of the plyometric work. Please explain the resistance running. Please tell us all why we would waste such valuable time doing all that?

Psst...we all already know.

Your attempt at calling the two of us out has really cemented your value as a poster here. Especially when you use an article that agrees with the arguments of your opposition. You argue just to argue. You refuse to see any other possibility than the fallacies in your own mind.  That's not a good trait...Especially when your continually on the wrong side of the truth.

[aujeff11 6,243]

9 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Did you even read the article? You really should, 'cause it's an indictment on the inaccuracies of HS 40 times. Which kind of proves how much faster they get out of HS. I wonder how they do that? Did you watch the video of the summer workouts? If so, please explain why the need for the form work. Please explain the purpose of the plyometric work. Please explain the resistance running. Please tell us all why we would waste such valuable time doing all that?

Psst...we all already know.

Your attempt at calling the two of us out has really cemented your value as a poster here. Especially when you use an article that agrees with the arguments of your opposition. You argue just to argue. You refuse to see any other possibility than the fallacies in your own mind.  That's not a good trait...Especially when your continually on the wrong side of the truth.

How is that agreeing with the opposition? If the SEC football players only gained 0.07ths from their reported high school teams, then I'd say that supports the argument that players can only run as fast their bodies will let them. Please tell me you don't think SW can run a 4.6 after running a high school reported time of 5.04?

[JFDTiger80 790]

10 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

I believe Chris Todd was slower than Sean too. 

Not even close. Sean could smoke him. Sean is pretty quick, not fast.

[bigbird 60,580]

No, I don't think that. I'd probably say 4.75-4.9. The article is not stating they only  get .07 faster. In fact the article is saying they add .07 to their 40 from HS to the combine.  You don't really believe they get slower, do you? The whole point of the article is the inaccuracies of the reported HS 40 times.  

They obviously don't slow down is the main point. So, if they don't slow down, then they must get faster.  Do you really think Chris Johnson ran a 4.24 in HS?

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

Guess you're not going to quote me huh? 

I hope they don't get slower.  If they do, it's because their body fat index increased, not the weight. My point of the article was that the SEC players on average only gained 0.07.  Which goes completely against you implying that increments of speed can continue to be built against all odds as long as the will and resources are there. 

[JFDTiger80 790]

9 hours ago, gr82be said:

I like Kerryon Johnson comment the best. He said Sean has a mean streak in him. One of my favorite quarterbacks was Jeff Burger. He had a pretty mean streak himself on and off the field. He played the game with the pedal down. Saw him sneak it in the end zone against Tennessee on an attempted kneel down play just because their defense didn't make an effort to rush him. We need that attitude on this team. I'm old school but if the defense doesn't stop you, you do not have a responsibility to stop yourself. I hope Sean plays mean. It will be a fun season if he does. 

Phil Gargis was the AU QB with the ultimate mean streak. He was not a big guy at all but he won the Heavyweight Boxing competition verses all comers on the AU campus. These were crazy days that they allowed students and athletes to box each other. People did not want to mess with Gargis.

[AU64 10,122]

8 minutes ago, bigbird said:

No, I don't think that. I'd probably say 4.75-4.9. The article is not stating they only  get .07 faster. In fact the article is saying they add .07 to their 40 from HS to the combine.  You don't really believe they get slower, do you? The whole point of the article is the inaccuracies of the reported HS 40 times.  

They obviously don't slow down.

 

But they often get shorter and lighter......or is that what happens in college?   Look what happens when we compare our player roster against NFL combine stats when they leave.   I can't believe adults really accept those numbers..considering how players and coaches fudge them.   And not sure how much they matter anyway..

[auskip07 930]

4.6 - 4.10.  who cares?  he is only expected to gain positive yard  and then slide.  

[bigbird 60,580]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

Guess you're not going to quote me huh? 

I hope they don't get slower.  If they do, it's because their body fat index increased, not the weight. My point of the article was that the SEC players on average only gained 0.07.  Which goes completely against you implying that increments of speed can continue to be built against all odds as long as the will and resources are there. 

That's not what the article is saying.

 

Here is the quote.

The average SEC enrollee added 0.07 seconds to his 40 time while in college

That indicates they got slower.  Not faster. The point of the article was to call out HS for giving bad 40 times.