Sean White named starting QB

[austudnt23 1,432]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

I started to say it was just Charlotte because I'm pretty big on seeing it done against quality players. But the stats he put up was impressive against anybody and did it pretty much in a half. But anyway I was just imagining him in this offense. 

No doubt Lamar Jackson is a stud and we made a mistake not going all in on him at qb. Lamar would be unstoppable in our offense imo.

[AUsince72 11,084]

49 minutes ago, tombigbeetiger said:

yeah, i would be happy if he played here like he has at louisville.....but the problem would be that petrino would not be here to coach him up!....look, malzahn caught lightning in a bottle with cam newton and nick marshall....those two guys were so good that i would be national coach of the year if i were coaching them.....i'm waiting, expecting absolutely nothing, so maybe i get fooled....keep an eye on malzahns playcalling....that will tell you a few things about how the season will probably go

I don't disagree with your last statement about Gus' play calling.  I am very critical of what happened last year.  Also, I'm critical of 2014 when I feel like he worried too much about NM's passing and harped on it so much that he ended up making him "think pass" too much on the field and not just use his football instincts that served him so well in 2013. ...but that's neither here nor there.  Bottom line, like @austudnt23 just said above me, I think LJ is very comparable to NM when Gus brought him in.  I think he could have been GREAT in Gus' offense.  ..and as I've stated before I choose (positive here) to believe Gus has learned A LOT over the last couple years and he's ready to lead AU to greatness. That's where we'll disagree.  No offense...but I hope you're wrong and I'm right!!!

If my optimism is all for not, I've already told you, I'm happy to invite you over for crow and beer BUT, if AU balls out and proves you wrong tomorrow night....I will be wanting my WAR EAGLE from you sir!!! 

[Barnacle 9,064]

24 minutes ago, austudnt23 said:

Easy now. Cam NEWTON I agree would have made any coach look like a star. However, NM let's face it is or was not some can't miss superstar qb like Cam was. NM was moved to DB before they ever really gave him a chance at qb in the NFL. So I would say CGM played a role in NM being so effective at qb.  NM is my 2nd favorite AU player all time behind Cam so don't think I am trying to talk bad about him at all.  NM would not have been a SEC championship winning qb and nearly as effective at any other school or playing for any other coach imo. 

I agree with this to an extent. I think Gus took Nick and put him in the right position to maximize his skillset. However, Nick had some abilities that I thought were innate, such as his calmness, his proclivity for protecting the football, his arm strength and his quickness - particularly in running the ZR.  Gus put him in the right position, and Nick's talent would take over. That's not to say that Gus shouldn't get credit, or that he didn't play a role in NM being so effective at QB. He should. However, we're talking about being effective in the QB role that Gus had him in. It was a very good fit. In addition, we had an offense that surrounded Nick with assets that maximized his ability. We had Tre Mason setting records inside. We had speed in CG to the outside. We had an outstanding blocking HB. We had a wide receiver in Coates who could stretch the field in a big way. And, we had an offensive line that was playing unbelievable football, especially towards the later parts of the season (2013). All of this, and Nick didn't become an increasingly better passer from 2013 to 2014. He threw more, and for more yardage, but he improved only marginally if you look at things like completion percentage, TD/Int ratio, etc. For a guy as raw as NM was at the position, you would have expected more significant improvement from him in 2014. He didn't drop off, but I don't think he was much better of a quarterback in 2014 than he was in 2013 when Gus started with him. So, I have a hard time giving Gus too much credit with NM as well. He may not have caught lightning in a bottle in the same way that he did individually with Cam in 2010, but I think he did catch lightning in a bottle with the way that NM fit with the other perfect pieces that were in place when Gus got to Auburn. 

[augolf1716 21,303]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

I started to say it was just Charlotte because I'm pretty big on seeing it done against quality players. But the stats he put up was impressive against anybody and did it pretty much in a half. But anyway I was just imagining him in this offense. 

Would be nice but it is what it is.

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

What is really shocking about Lamar Jackson is that he is only a true sophomore and when he played half that game against us, his legs were unstoppable for a minute. Now where we are really seeing some crazy is the leaps and strides that he has made as a passer. We are talking night and day improvement. So the question has to be asked, under Malzahn, would he have developed into such a polished passer with full use of his legs in an offensive system like ours and under the tutelage of Lashlee? If the answer is no, or anything less than yes, then we would STILL be having this discussion in some capacity, especially given the 54% completion rating as well as 12/8 TD/INT ratio. JJ's stats to finish the year were a 63% completion rating (bolstered by screens yes.) and a 10/7 TD/INT ratio, so there was a slight difference. Though SEC caliber competition would also factor into that as well. 

[AUIH1 1,515]

On 8/29/2016 at 1:42 PM, aujeff11 said:

To Flex's last post.  There is no question that Petrino is an outstanding QB coach who can evaluate QBs and develop them.  There is still a huge question as to whether Gus can.

wde

 

[tombigbeetiger 223]

3 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

What is really shocking about Lamar Jackson is that he is only a true sophomore and when he played half that game against us, his legs were unstoppable for a minute. Now where we are really seeing some crazy is the leaps and strides that he has made as a passer. We are talking night and day improvement. So the question has to be asked, under Malzahn, would he have developed into such a polished passer with full use of his legs in an offensive system like ours and under the tutelage of Lashlee? If the answer is no, or anything less than yes, then we would STILL be having this discussion in some capacity, especially given the 54% completion rating as well as 12/8 TD/INT ratio. JJ's stats to finish the year were a 63% completion rating (bolstered by screens yes.) and a 10/7 TD/INT ratio, so there was a slight difference. Though SEC caliber competition would also factor into that as well. 

Malcolm, you are far and away my favorite poster that posts on this forum....know why?....because you know what you're talking about....your yes or no question in your post: my answer is no.....  i would like to hear what you have to say about it, though

[Barnacle 9,064]

Who knows what would have happened. I think we are going to find out this year with Sean White. With Nick, I don't think there was much to coach (relatively speaking). He simplified things in a big way for Nick and let Nick go do what Nick did best. That's half of quarterback coaching, anyway. It's putting the quarterback in a position to maximize his skillset in a way that the quarterback feels comfortable and confident in. Sean's strength is his ability to be an accurate, passing quarterback. We haven't seen Gus with someone like that while at Auburn, at least not for more than one season. So, this season will tell people what they really want to know about quarterback development. I think Sean has the skillset to be a very good quarterback. I just want to see if Gus knows how to develop his offense around someone like Sean, and how to equip and empower him to be successful. We have the right tools to run an effective offense. We might not have the tools necessary to rely almost completely on our offense to outscore our opponents, as we have in the past, but we have the tools to be effective. If we are averaging more than 30 points per game this season, then I think Gus will have done a good job. 

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

13 minutes ago, tombigbeetiger said:

Malcolm, you are far and away my favorite poster that posts on this forum....know why?....because you know what you're talking about....your yes or no question in your post: my answer is no.....  i would like to hear what you have to say about it, though

Basically, I can't really say as to whether I know what I'm talking about any more or less than anyone else here, just seeing it through one perspective, as someone who has and still can play the game. But basically, it'd have to be a maybe. Which, to that question that I asked, would basically state that we would still be talking about a better QB rather than hanging our hats on him. If only because there isn't enough credible info to tout Gus as a "QB whisperer". Offensively he crafted a masterful system that doesn't require WORLD CLASS arm talent, however, because that system has been so successful and ran from the sideline, it basically stunts QB development. A lot of our route combinations are basic and again we don't rely on spreading the field with 3-4 wide all the time. Our offense is basically only spread out half the time, expanding formations across the field typically after tempo drives where we will hurry up into formation and bunch into a run-heavy formation to tire the defense out and capture momentum. Most of the time routes being ran closer to the inside of the hashes. This means QBs rarely learn to read the full field and most of the time when they do, they've got their instructed routes to throw hell or hot water, like the notorious post that JJ often threw into bracket and bermuda triangle style coverage. But it's natural for the QBs in systems where they're having to thrive on airing the ball out to develop better instincts as a passer so this is nothing new. 

Petrino simply put, relies on the QB to be a top-flight QB more often so he places an emphasis on QB development and play, whereas Gus' electric system is what allows him to reap the benefits of not always having premier QBs. Now pair Gus' system up with someone who is a GREAT QB and you've got electricity.

EDIT:

2 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Who knows what would have happened. I think we are going to find out this year with Sean White. With Nick, I don't think there was much to coach (relatively speaking). He simplified things in a big way for Nick and let Nick go do what Nick did best. That's half of quarterback coaching, anyway. It's putting the quarterback in a position to maximize his skillset in a way that the quarterback feels comfortable and confident in. Sean's strength is his ability to be an accurate, passing quarterback. We haven't seen Gus with someone like that while at Auburn, at least not for more than one season. So, this season will tell people what they really want to know about quarterback development. I think Sean has the skillset to be a very good quarterback. I just want to see if Gus knows how to develop his offense around someone like Sean, and how to equip and empower him to be successful. We have the right tools to run an effective offense. We might not have the tools necessary to rely almost completely on our offense to outscore our opponents, as we have in the past, but we have the tools to be effective. If we are averaging more than 30 points per game this season, then I think Gus will have done a good job. 

 

And that speaks to my point right there. SW possibly could have been AMAZING in Petrino's system because his skillset and Petrino's philosophy are similar. However, his ceiling in this offense might be a lot lower and he may never reach the zenith of his growth, simply because he doesn't need to be. But likewise, that means that SW isn't necessarily optimizing our offense because it relies on skills that aren't the focal point of his game. He may be a precision passer this year, however, that doesn't necessarily equate to us scoring near as many points as we may have with a Lamar Jackson simply because you're taking a way a critical facet of what Gus likes to do offensively, which is create mass havoc through tempo and overwhelming numbers of threats to run the ball, and giving him a traditional passing attack in an offense that doesn't necessarily focus on that. Now if we primarily had route combos and personnel packages that we relied HEAVILY on that focused on spread concepts exclusively while minimizing the run emphasis, then I think SW would be at home. Also you'd have a different style of offensive line too. A much more pass protection oriented group of linemen and long athletic TEs or fast-receiver like TEs. Those tools would mesh perfectly. AU however, isn't going to recruit those types of players  just for one year and for one QB who doesn't fit the mold of what their base style of play is. Which is why I say that we aren't optimized for SW. That's why I'm slightly skeptical of when Gus says he will tailor some plays for SW because even then, you're basically only mimicking a pass happy offense with power-run Wing T parts. SW probably could also be a successful runner too in Petrino's offense, but that's another story. 

[tombigbeetiger 223]

4 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Basically, I can't really say as to whether I know what I'm talking about any more or less than anyone else here, just seeing it through one perspective, as someone who has and still can play the game. But basically, it'd have to be a maybe. Which, to that question that I asked, would basically state that we would still be talking about a better QB rather than hanging our hats on him. If only because there isn't enough credible info to tout Gus as a "QB whisperer". Offensively he crafted a masterful system that doesn't require WORLD CLASS arm talent, however, because that system has been so successful and ran from the sideline, it basically stunts QB development. A lot of our route combinations are basic and again we don't rely on spreading the field with 3-4 wide all the time. Our offense is basically only spread out half the time, expanding formations across the field typically after tempo drives where we will hurry up into formation and bunch into a run-heavy formation to tire the defense out and capture momentum. Most of the time routes being ran closer to the inside of the hashes. This means QBs rarely learn to read the full field and most of the time when they do, they've got their instructed routes to throw hell or hot water, like the notorious post that JJ often threw into bracket and bermuda triangle style coverage. But it's natural for the QBs in systems where they're having to thrive on airing the ball out to develop better instincts as a passer so this is nothing new. 

Petrino simply put, relies on the QB to be a top-flight QB more often so he places an emphasis on QB development and play, whereas Gus' electric system is what allows him to reap the benefits of not always having premier QBs. Now pair Gus' system up with someone who is a GREAT QB and you've got electricity.

you should have been a damned politician!!! you talked all around without ever addressing the issue, which pretty much, gives me my answer

 

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

1 minute ago, tombigbeetiger said:

you should have been a damned politician!!! you talked all around without ever addressing the issue, which pretty much, gives me my answer

 

Lol, there we go. It's not about the words, but the message. I figured I'd have some tact rather than outright saying it.
But maybe equates to no, so in short. 
No, I don't think he would. But those details are in the post above. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

People also need to understand the importance of big plays in our offense, and what guys like Nick and Cam running the ball did in that regard. Our offense, especially in 2013 was so successful running the football that it created HUGE opportunities down the field. Nick missed ALOT of those throws: see NCG 1st drive. So, to Malcolm's point - when you have a guy that can do both things well, it makes Gus' offense incredibly difficult to stop. Nick did it well enough and we know what Cam was. Just imagine for a second what our offense would have been like if Nick were a little more polished passing the ball. Seriously, it would have been impossible to stop in 2013. That being said, Gus couldn't figure out how to create big plays in our offense last year, and as a result, our running game suffered - and since those two things are so closely related, our lack of a running game made big plays much harder to come by. In short, our passing game has got to become more sophisticated this year if Sean White is going to be the starting quarterback. If we come out nickle and diming our way down the field via screen passes, and heavy doses of the running game, followed by blatantly predictable deep throws I'm going to throw up. 

 

[Barnacle 9,064]

15 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Basically, I can't really say as to whether I know what I'm talking about any more or less than anyone else here, just seeing it through one perspective, as someone who has and still can play the game. But basically, it'd have to be a maybe. Which, to that question that I asked, would basically state that we would still be talking about a better QB rather than hanging our hats on him. If only because there isn't enough credible info to tout Gus as a "QB whisperer". Offensively he crafted a masterful system that doesn't require WORLD CLASS arm talent, however, because that system has been so successful and ran from the sideline, it basically stunts QB development. A lot of our route combinations are basic and again we don't rely on spreading the field with 3-4 wide all the time. Our offense is basically only spread out half the time, expanding formations across the field typically after tempo drives where we will hurry up into formation and bunch into a run-heavy formation to tire the defense out and capture momentum. Most of the time routes being ran closer to the inside of the hashes. This means QBs rarely learn to read the full field and most of the time when they do, they've got their instructed routes to throw hell or hot water, like the notorious post that JJ often threw into bracket and bermuda triangle style coverage. But it's natural for the QBs in systems where they're having to thrive on airing the ball out to develop better instincts as a passer so this is nothing new. 

Petrino simply put, relies on the QB to be a top-flight QB more often so he places an emphasis on QB development and play, whereas Gus' electric system is what allows him to reap the benefits of not always having premier QBs. Now pair Gus' system up with someone who is a GREAT QB and you've got electricity.

EDIT:

 

And that speaks to my point right there. SW possibly could have been AMAZING in Petrino's system because his skillset and Petrino's philosophy are similar. However, his ceiling in this offense might be a lot lower and he may never reach the zenith of his growth, simply because he doesn't need to be. But likewise, that means that SW isn't necessarily optimizing our offense because it relies on skills that aren't the focal point of his game. He may be a precision passer this year, however, that doesn't necessarily equate to us scoring near as many points as we may have with a Lamar Jackson simply because you're taking a way a critical facet of what Gus likes to do offensively, which is create mass havoc through tempo and overwhelming numbers of threats to run the ball, and giving him a traditional passing attack in an offense that doesn't necessarily focus on that. Now if we primarily had route combos and personnel packages that we relied HEAVILY on that focused on spread concepts exclusively while minimizing the run emphasis, then I think SW would be at home. Also you'd have a different style of offensive line too. A much more pass protection oriented group of linemen and long athletic TEs or fast-receiver like TEs. Those tools would mesh perfectly. AU however, isn't going to recruit those types of players  just for one year and for one QB who doesn't fit the mold of what their base style of play is. Which is why I say that we aren't optimized for SW. That's why I'm slightly skeptical of when Gus says he will tailor some plays for SW because even then, you're basically only mimicking a pass happy offense with power-run Wing T parts. SW probably could also be a successful runner too in Petrino's offense, but that's another story. 

The biggest thing that concerns me with Sean White is our lack of TE production. We have GOT to find a way to be productive passing the ball in the middle of the field. It's going to be interesting. If Gus truly is an offensive guru, this will be the year to show it.

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

5 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

People also need to understand the importance of big plays in our offense, and what guys like Nick and Cam running the ball did in that regard. Our offense, especially in 2013 was so successful running the football that it created HUGE opportunities down the field. Nick missed ALOT of those throws: see NCG 1st drive. So, to Malcolm's point - when you have a guy that can do both things well, it makes Gus' offense incredibly difficult to stop. Nick did it well enough and we know what Cam was. Just imagine for a second what our offense would have been like if Nick were a little more polished passing the ball. Seriously, it would have been impossible to stop in 2013. That being said, Gus couldn't figure out how to create big plays in our offense last year, and as a result, our running game suffered - and since those two things are so closely related, our lack of a running game made big plays much harder to come by. In short, our passing game has got to become more sophisticated this year if Sean White is going to be the starting quarterback. If we come out nickle and diming our way down the field via screen passes, and heavy doses of the running game, followed by blatantly predictable deep throws I'm going to throw up. 

 

Well that's SW's style at least with this offense anyways. Those are what the route combinations lend themselves well to. Knicks and cuts followed by shots when it's safe. People say that Gus will take the handcuffs off of Sean, but he is in a position of scrutiny now to where he HAS to play things safe. I don't know how sophisticated you can make a passing game when you've got offensive linemen who still aren't designed to be All-Star pass defenders to give time for intricate routes to develop. Again, another reason for my skepticism with a SW tailored playbook. Our linemen are more balanced with a preference towards run-blocking and getting downfield to attack the 2nd level.   

 

3 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

The biggest thing that concerns me with Sean White is our lack of TE production. We have GOT to find a way to be productive passing the ball in the middle of the field. It's going to be interesting. If Gus truly is an offensive guru, this will be the year to show it.

Our TE coach is still the same as it has been and TE depth is pretty much near identical with 2 ACTUAL TEs and CC. That's not really promising in terms of showing what we will be doing at that position. More than likely the H-Back will remain a primary blocker with a few wheel routes here and there. CC is a lot of things, but I wouldn't necessarily call him an expert route runner, and he isn't exactly long enough to work in the middle of the field around LBs and in between safeties. He definitely won't threaten the seam with mind-blowing speed either so there is maybe some tempering to those expectations. (Based on what I've seen anyways.) Who knows, maybe they have improved. But most evidence doesn't point to that. 

[johnnyAU 3,650]

Not using the TE is bothersome with any QB, and a kid like Lamar Jackson, who can do BOTH things well, not just one would make a lot of teams better, as certainly would DeShaun Watson. 

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

1 minute ago, johnnyAU said:

Not using the TE is bothersome with any QB, and a kid like Lamar Jackson, who can do BOTH things well, not just one would make a lot of teams better, as certainly would DeShaun Watson. 

It's like I tell people. When you can literally spread the field out in empty or with a single TE playing as an H-Back and still have a dangerous ability to run the ball via your QB while not sacrificing passing ability since you can stretch the field vertically, then you're going to give defenses fits and have a potent offense. The QB himself becomes the only back that's needed meanwhile you've got the defense in a Nickel or Dime package and they've got all their DBs about 10-15 yards down the field having to work out of Man or a deeper zone. It's a win-win for the offense. If you don't get a deep shot, you're getting at least 10 yards on the carry and you've got the defense outmanned in terms of blocking since they can't offer any extra run support. 

[I_M4_AU 8,003]

SHIGD, Sure Happy It's Game Day.  A lot of questions will be answered today.....and a lot of new questions will arise.  War Eagle.

[AU64 10,122]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

SHIGD, Sure Happy It's Game Day.  A lot of questions will be answered today.....and a lot of new questions will arise.  War Eagle.

Been noted previously that AU fans should not consider this a make or break game for SW or for the team.....BUT we know that's not going to be the case. 

Clemson is a pretty big favorite in the general media and only about 10 at Las Vegas but our "loyal" AU fans are not going to be satisfied with anything but a dominating Auburn victory and will find numerous reasons not to be happy with this team. 

[AUIH1 1,515]

57 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Been noted previously that AU fans should not consider this a make or break game for SW or for the team.....BUT we know that's not going to be the case. 

Clemson is a pretty big favorite in the general media and only about 10 at Las Vegas but our "loyal" AU fans are not going to be satisfied with anything but a dominating Auburn victory and will find numerous reasons not to be happy with this team. 

Speak for yourself.  If we play well and lose by a touchdown or less to the #2 team in the country, then I will  be Ok going forward. if we get blown out (by 20 + then  I will not be OK)

 

wde

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, AUIH1 said:

Speak for yourself.  If we play well and lose by a touchdown or less to the #2 team in the country, then I will  be Ok going forward.

 

wde

I'm with you...but you must not read the commentary on this site....some people are NEVER satisfied....

[AUIH1 1,515]

3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I'm with you...but you must not read the commentary on this site....some people are NEVER satisfied....

Well to be honest.  If we don't win 9 regular season wins with at least one of those against uga or spuat, then I think Gus should be fired.  However;  I don't want Jay Jacobs to ever hire another football coach at AU.  He is incompetent.  So, you may want to adjust your post about "I'm with you".

 

wde

[AU64 10,122]

6 minutes ago, AUIH1 said:

Well to be honest.  If we don't win 9 regular season wins with at least one of those against uga or spuat, then I think Gus should be fired.  However;  I don't want Jay Jacobs to ever hire another football coach at AU.  He is incompetent.  So, you may want to adjust your post about "I'm with you".

 

wde

Yeh....probably so....   well, maybe some of the time....

[cole256 17,084]

2 hours ago, AU64 said:

Been noted previously that AU fans should not consider this a make or break game for SW or for the team.....BUT we know that's not going to be the case. 

Clemson is a pretty big favorite in the general media and only about 10 at Las Vegas but our "loyal" AU fans are not going to be satisfied with anything but a dominating Auburn victory and will find numerous reasons not to be happy with this team. 

Not a make or break by any means, but it's not a free pass. It should be no different than expectations when jj played against Louisville

[CoffeeTiger 5,180]

I'm 100% behind White. I think last year especially should have been a big learning year for White and JJ, and I'm hopeful that'll lead to some big gains at the QB position this year. (JF3 included)

 

like others have said, ultimately I just want our best QB to prove he's the best and for our coaches stick with him.

 

[AU64 10,122]

56 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Not a make or break by any means, but it's not a free pass. It should be no different than expectations when jj played against Louisville

Did I miss something....was Louisville ranked #2 coming off a game in the NC game?     JMO but that's a pretty big stretch.