Would you feel different if we had beaten FSU in 2013?

[DAG 33,997]

37 minutes ago, Tiger said:

@DAG Choking in big games vs choking vs Miss State over and over though? 

Are you comparing Gus to Bob Stoops? I am not comparing to Gus. I am just saying he has a reputation of choking in big games. That is why I think we need to not only be prisoners of the moment.  Now, all we know is Gus, so it sounds good to have someone who chokes in big games rather than against those teams. But eventually, you will get sick of that. You don't think so now because everyone is sick of the Gus inconsistency, so pretty much anything sounds good. The hard truth is Bob Stoops is going to have more than just a Texas and/or some surprise team to worry about annually. 

But let's take a look

2001: #4 OU loses to a 4-7 Oklahoma State 

2002: #1 OU loses to the Aggies who end up 6-6

2003: They lose the Big 12 championship handily as #1 team to a gritty # 12 Kansas State team. Still, Make it to the national championship and lose.

2004: Dominate regular season. Killed by USC in NC game (AU should've been there ahh)

2005: 8-4

2006: Lose to 7-6 Oregon, but they played at Eugene, which is a tough game. Loss the defining Boise State game. Mind you; this team had Adrian Peterson. Still a quality season

2007: Lose to 6-7 Colorado and 9-4 Texas Tech. OU was ranked #3 in both games. Also annihilated by WVU in the bowl game BUT WV was an excellent team that year IMO. Still, considered an upset as OU was also ranked #3 going into that game. They did beat #1 ranked Missouri in the big 12 championship game though!

2008:  was a great year. They loss to two outstanding teams in Florida and Texas

2009:  Down year. Preseason ranking of 3, end up 8-5 and unranked

2010: Loss to Missouri as #3 ranked team (But again that was a good ten win Mizzou team) Loss to unranked Texas A&M at the time (Quality team ended up being ranked at the end of the year)

2011: Loss to unranked TT as the #3 team at the time (Tommy Tubs coached Texas Tech who was 5-7 that year). Also, loss to Baylor and Oklahoma State but those two teams were very quality. It happens

2012: Was a good year. They just loss to 3 good teams (It happens)

2013: Loss to unranked Texas (Rivalry game) and Eventual Big 12 champions Baylor (Very good team)

2014: Loss to TCU who was #25 at the time as preseason #4 team. Down year. Ended up 8-5 and unranked.  Annihilated by Clemson in the bowl game.

2015:  was a great year. Just overmatched by a great Clemson

2016: Loses an opening game to a quality Houston team. Absolutely destroyed by Ohio State. Kills us in our bowl game (Ouch).

2000: Beast. Won an NC that year

Bob Stoops record is impeccable (190-48). Consistent nine-game winner there (I love it). What I don't like..1 NC with 4 Postseason appearances in an 18-year tenure at OU, who arguably were the most talented most years in the big 12. As I have said before, I would welcome him with open arms if he came here, but I will be expecting multiple NC victories. Definitely at least one NC victory.

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

You shouldn't go from controlling a game through the first 2 1/2 quarters and suddenly in the 3rd quarter your offense can't find a way to score or move the ball and the other teams starts coming back and taking away the momentum.

Happens quite often. See Auburn v Virginia Tech Sugar Bowl.  If you win it’s still a win and not a choke. To the victor goes the spoils. 

 

[Tiger 8,829]

28 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

We were never in position to win the game against Georgia but that was choking? 

The games you brought up in were 17 Bama and 18 Tennessee. I explained how those were either choking or not and was specific about the scenarios surrounding each. 

Who said anything about Georgia? 

 

The mere fact that our coach is so incompetent that there's a blurred line between what's considered choking and what is considered simply remedial coaching tactic just shows what kind of crappy spot we are in as a program. 

[Tiger 8,829]

24 minutes ago, DAG said:

Are you comparing Gus to Bob Stoops? I am not comparing to Gus. I am just saying he has a reputation of choking in big games. That is why I think we need to not only be prisoners of the moment.  Now, all we know is Gus, so it sounds good to have someone who chokes in big games rather than against those teams. But eventually, you will get sick of that. You don't think so now because everyone is sick of the Gus inconsistency, so pretty much anything sounds good. The hard truth is Bob Stoops is going to have more than just a Texas and/or some surprise team to worry about annually. 

But let's take a look

2001: #4 OU loses to a 4-7 Oklahoma State 

2002: #1 OU loses to the Aggies who end up 6-6

2003: They lose the Big 12 championship handily as #1 team to a gritty # 12 Kansas State team. Still, Make it to the national championship and lose.

2004: Dominate regular season. Killed by USC in NC game (AU should've been there ahh)

2005: 8-4

2006: Lose to 7-6 Oregon, but they played at Eugene, which is a tough game. Loss the defining Boise State game. Mind you; this team had Adrian Peterson. Still a quality season

2007: Lose to 6-7 Colorado and 9-4 Texas Tech. OU was ranked #3 in both games. Also annihilated by WVU in the bowl game BUT WV was an excellent team that year IMO. Still, considered an upset as OU was also ranked #3 going into that game. They did beat #1 ranked Missouri in the big 12 championship game though!

2008:  was a great year. They loss to two outstanding teams in Florida and Texas

2009:  Down year. Preseason ranking of 3, end up 8-5 and unranked

2010: Loss to Missouri as #3 ranked team (But again that was a good ten win Mizzou team) Loss to unranked Texas A&M at the time (Quality team ended up being ranked at the end of the year)

2011: Loss to unranked TT as the #3 team at the time (Tommy Tubs coached Texas Tech who was 5-7 that year). Also, loss to Baylor and Oklahoma State but those two teams were very quality. It happens

2012: Was a good year. They just loss to 3 good teams (It happens)

2013: Loss to unranked Texas (Rivalry game) and Eventual Big 12 champions Baylor (Very good team)

2014: Loss to TCU who was #25 at the time as preseason #4 team. Down year. Ended up 8-5 and unranked.  Annihilated by Clemson in the bowl game.

2015:  was a great year. Just overmatched by a great Clemson

2016: Loses an opening game to a quality Houston team. Absolutely destroyed by Ohio State. Kills us in our bowl game (Ouch).

2000: Beast. Won an NC that year

Bob Stoops record is impeccable (190-48). Consistent nine-game winner there (I love it). What I don't like..1 NC with 4 Postseason appearances in an 18-year tenure at OU, who arguably were the most talented most years in the big 12. As I have said before, I would welcome him with open arms if he came here, but I will be expecting multiple NC victories. Definitely at least one NC victory.

Good stuff. I appreciate the breakdown. I'd like to think I do have the foresight to know I'd be sick of Stoops blowing big games. I also am confident that I'd feel much better having successful enough regular seasons to get to big games. When/if he starts blowing them at AU we should then adjust and attempt to level up again once we feel our ceiling under Stoops, hypothetically, would have been reached if he gives us Mark Richt type results. 

I don't think the bar is set at finding a perfect coach who has great regular seasons and never falters in big games. That is the perfect scenario which goes without saying. I just want to be consistently good. That's where the bar is for AU I think. Stoops would get us there IMO

[aujeff11 6,243]

27 minutes ago, Tiger said:

The games you brought up in were 17 Bama and 18 Tennessee. I explained how those were either choking or not and was specific about the scenarios surrounding each. 

 

You brought up  Tennessee game odds directly after we got smoked by State. What did we choke on? From game 3 until game 7 we sucked.  Some choke job

27 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Who said anything about Georgia?

Are you playing coy? The same person who brought up Tennessee. The Georgia games literally brought two pages of discussion by their lonesome. 

[bigbird 60,573]

1 hour ago, auburnphan said:

So what do you call it when u have never made second half adjustments after six plus years?

Malzahning?

[DAG 33,997]

1 minute ago, Tiger said:

Good stuff. I appreciate the breakdown. I'd like to think I do have the foresight to know I'd be sick of Stoops blowing big games. I also am confident that I'd feel much better having successful enough regular seasons to get to big games. When/if he starts blowing them at AU we should then adjust and attempt to level up again once we feel our ceiling under Stoops, hypothetically, would have been reached if he gives us Mark Richt type results. 

I don't think the bar is set at finding a perfect coach who has great regular seasons and never falters in big games. That is the perfect scenario which goes without saying. I just want to be consistently good. That's where the bar is for AU I think. Stoops would get us there IMO

Absolutely. I am sorry for assuming you would feel this way. I just know some of our fans are so pissed they are just looking for the biggest name. I too think Stoops could possibly get us over the hump, but I would be lying if I said I did not have some reserves. With that being said, He deserves the benefit of a doubt and to be way higher on the list than some of the others guy I have named. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

19 minutes ago, Tiger said:

The mere fact that our coach is so incompetent that there's a blurred line between what's considered choking and what is considered simply remedial coaching tactic just shows what kind of crappy spot we are in as a program

I think there are blurry lines in what’s considered choking anyway.. It’s overused and vague. 

 

Much like when people say irony 

[Tiger Refuge 6,671]

44 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

No I didn’t say that all. I even brought up that you couldn’t say we failed to maintain our performance against Tennessee because

a) we we got clobbered by Mississippi State just the weekend before. If anything was maintained it was the fact that we sucked. 

b) we never led in the game. 

 

So how on earth did you not see that part?? 

I miss all kinds of stuff. Happens all the time and I’m not ashamed to admit it.

So the loss to MSU preempts using the term “choke job” -ie never leading and losing at home to a previously 0-11 in SEC play UT team while we were still favored by double digits. 

 

Got it. That’s all I needed.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,874]

14 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Malzahning?

I think I’ll use this phrase when we don’t score in the 3rd Qtr this year.  I hope I don’t have to use it, but....

[AUwent 3,756]

On 6/13/2019 at 3:09 PM, DAG said:

Why shouldn’t losing in the SEC championship game count ? Lol . It’s his job to get the players up for the bowl game as well. You lost me with some of that. Also , if we wouldn’t have loss in ridiculous fashion to LSU, I still think we go to the playoffs ( my opinion of course). 

Completely agree. Before someone brings up tOSU-PSU 2016, our losses in that scenario would’ve been far better than PSU’s losses, and tOSU’s resume was better than UAT’s to that point.

[Carnell 592]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Are you comparing Gus to Bob Stoops? I am not comparing to Gus. I am just saying he has a reputation of choking in big games. That is why I think we need to not only be prisoners of the moment.  Now, all we know is Gus, so it sounds good to have someone who chokes in big games rather than against those teams. But eventually, you will get sick of that. You don't think so now because everyone is sick of the Gus inconsistency, so pretty much anything sounds good. The hard truth is Bob Stoops is going to have more than just a Texas and/or some surprise team to worry about annually. 

But let's take a look

2001: #4 OU loses to a 4-7 Oklahoma State 

2002: #1 OU loses to the Aggies who end up 6-6

2003: They lose the Big 12 championship handily as #1 team to a gritty # 12 Kansas State team. Still, Make it to the national championship and lose.

2004: Dominate regular season. Killed by USC in NC game (AU should've been there ahh)

2005: 8-4

2006: Lose to 7-6 Oregon, but they played at Eugene, which is a tough game. Loss the defining Boise State game. Mind you; this team had Adrian Peterson. Still a quality season

2007: Lose to 6-7 Colorado and 9-4 Texas Tech. OU was ranked #3 in both games. Also annihilated by WVU in the bowl game BUT WV was an excellent team that year IMO. Still, considered an upset as OU was also ranked #3 going into that game. They did beat #1 ranked Missouri in the big 12 championship game though!

2008:  was a great year. They loss to two outstanding teams in Florida and Texas

2009:  Down year. Preseason ranking of 3, end up 8-5 and unranked

2010: Loss to Missouri as #3 ranked team (But again that was a good ten win Mizzou team) Loss to unranked Texas A&M at the time (Quality team ended up being ranked at the end of the year)

2011: Loss to unranked TT as the #3 team at the time (Tommy Tubs coached Texas Tech who was 5-7 that year). Also, loss to Baylor and Oklahoma State but those two teams were very quality. It happens

2012: Was a good year. They just loss to 3 good teams (It happens)

2013: Loss to unranked Texas (Rivalry game) and Eventual Big 12 champions Baylor (Very good team)

2014: Loss to TCU who was #25 at the time as preseason #4 team. Down year. Ended up 8-5 and unranked.  Annihilated by Clemson in the bowl game.

2015:  was a great year. Just overmatched by a great Clemson

2016: Loses an opening game to a quality Houston team. Absolutely destroyed by Ohio State. Kills us in our bowl game (Ouch).

2000: Beast. Won an NC that year

Bob Stoops record is impeccable (190-48). Consistent nine-game winner there (I love it). What I don't like..1 NC with 4 Postseason appearances in an 18-year tenure at OU, who arguably were the most talented most years in the big 12. As I have said before, I would welcome him with open arms if he came here, but I will be expecting multiple NC victories. Definitely at least one NC victory.

Just citing loses doesnt mean a coach choked. you have to look at it as 1) Was the other team better 2) if not what caused the loss.  First of all USC was a lot better team than Oklahoma.  They controlled both LOCs in that game so it was not a choke.  I remember some of the KSU game but not enough to determine whether it was a choke job or not.  The others losses mentioned I dont remember but clearly appear to be choke jobs because the Okies were a better team however from that you have to look at what caused the loss.  Clearly Stoops is a defensive guy and if the loss was due to poor offensive playcalling then was it stoops that choked.  In addition, the gameplan may have been a good one but the players just failed to execute the plan.  Can you say Stoops choked then.  However, if you can say that since he is HC he is responsible for what goes on and if the team chokes then he chokes.  However, this is different than gus because if the team chokes due to poor play calling or offensive scheme this is a direct link to gus since he is also defacto OC and playcaller.  There appears to only be an indirect link to Stoops choking.

 

[DAG 33,997]

3 hours ago, Carnell said:

Just citing loses doesnt mean a coach choked. you have to look at it as 1) Was the other team better 2) if not what caused the loss.  First of all USC was a lot better team than Oklahoma.  They controlled both LOCs in that game so it was not a choke.  I remember some of the KSU game but not enough to determine whether it was a choke job or not.  The others losses mentioned I dont remember but clearly appear to be choke jobs because the Okies were a better team however from that you have to look at what caused the loss.  Clearly Stoops is a defensive guy and if the loss was due to poor offensive playcalling then was it stoops that choked.  In addition, the gameplan may have been a good one but the players just failed to execute the plan.  Can you say Stoops choked then.  However, if you can say that since he is HC he is responsible for what goes on and if the team chokes then he chokes.  However, this is different than gus because if the team chokes due to poor play calling or offensive scheme this is a direct link to gus since he is also defacto OC and playcaller.  There appears to only be an indirect link to Stoops choking.

 

USC was  better on paper than Texas and UT found a way to beat them. To get blown out in a big game on the national stage appears to me that the stage was way too big for them. IMO , this is choking on the National Stage, especially considering they ran through the big 12. USC was also considered only a 1 point favorite at the time against OU. USC had Matt Leinart who was the Heisman winner that year. OU had Jason White who was the Heisman winner the previous year. Both teams had prolific RBs in the backfield who were Heisman finalists.  They were definitely the better squad in the game, but on paper, those team matched up very well with each other. OU scores first this game and then USC scores 28 unanswered points. How, if Stoops is the defensive guru?  If Gus led a team like that into the NC game and got killed like that, people would be saying he choked . Stop it. 

Also, I did a lot more than just cite losses. I clearly explained quality losses versus those which OU was far more talented than them. The bolded ones in particular , OU had no business losing. Those our definitely chokes IMO. Again if Gus had a #1 ranked team Auburn team losing to an .500 Alabama squad , a lot of people would lose their  minds and the blame would be directly on him. Period.

if Gus had preseason top 5 teams and he ended up unranked. Majority of the fans would say he choked the season away and he would be directly to blame. 

Quite frankly, majority of the teams they loss to, OU had better talent too to bottom. There is no indirect loss to the head coach . Don’t even try to argue something like that. No such thing . In 2014, majority of the losses was due to bad defense , but at the end of the day, this falls at the feet of the HC. 

 

This is the stuff I mean. Trying to change the narrative. 

 

[DAG 33,997]

52 minutes ago, Carnell said:

  I remember some of the KSU game but not enough to determine whether it was a choke job or not.

OU loss that game 35-7. A championship game. They averaged 48 points per game on offense and was only giving up 13 points on defense. Again,  a championship game. As gritty as KSU was, they had a defining loss against Marshall earlier in the year. They also already had 3 total losses prior to that game. Now OU is the consensus #1 team in the nation at this time. Now you tell me, if this is a choke job for not?

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

I miss all kinds of stuff. Happens all the time and I’m not ashamed to admit it.

So the loss to MSU preempts using the term “choke job” -ie never leading and losing at home to a previously 0-11 in SEC play UT team while we were still favored by double digits. 

 

Got it. That’s all I needed.

 

Any time you need something from the auJeff one stop shop just holler.

Now let’s revisit this morning when I said I thought FSU, both LSU’s, and Tennessee were the only real choke jobs under Gus.

I’m just giving my interpretation of the definition posted. 

 

 

[Carnell 592]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

USC was a lot better on paper then Texas and UT found a way to beat them. To get blown out in a big game on the national stage appears to me that the stage was way too big for them. IMO , this is choking on the National Stage, especially considering they ran through the big 12. USC was also considered only a 1 point favorite at the time against OU. USC had Matt Leinart who was the Heisman winner that year. OU had Jason White who was the Heisman winner the previous year. Both teams had prolific RBs in the backfield who were Heisman finalists.  They were definitely the better squad in the game, but on paper, those team matched up very well with each other. OU scores first this game and then USC scores 28 unanswered points. How, if Stoops is the defensive guru?  If Gus led a team like that into the NC game and got killed like that, people would be saying he choked . Stop it. 

Also, I did a lot more than just cite losses. I clearly explained quality losses versus those which OU was far more talented than them. The bolded ones in particular , OU had no business losing. Those our definitely chokes IMO. Again if Gus had a #1 ranked team Auburn team losing to an .500 Alabama squad , a lot of people would lose their  minds and the blame would be directly on him. Period.

if Gus had preseason top 5 teams and he ended up unranked. Majority of the fans would say he choked the season away and he would be directly to blame. 

Quite frankly, majority of the teams they loss to, OU had better talent too to bottom. There is no indirect loss to the head coach . Don’t even try to argue something like that. No such thing . In 2014, majority of the losses was due to bad defense , but at the end of the day, this falls at the feet of the HC. 

 

This is the stuff I mean. Trying to change the narrative. 

 

You say they choked on a national stage because the stage was way to big but the stage was not to big in 2000 when they beat FSu and won the championship.  In your post you mention quarterbacks and running backs but as I mentioned in my earlier post USC clearly had the most dominate offensive and defensive line in the game and that is where USC won the game (in fact USCs guards dominated Okies DTs all night long.  I can not speak for Auburn people but if a Gus coached team got beat like Okies did in the LOC I would not say Gus choked but Auburn got beat by a far superior team no matter what the rankings are.  

In those games where Okie was superior I was agreeing that choke job happened I was further trying to explain to those that said a choke did occur that it was not necessarily that stoops was the one that choked.

[kevon67 2,368]

On 6/13/2019 at 3:35 PM, McLoofus said:

You're starting to make me sad. But just so you have closure, run what you just said by your gay friends and get their opinion. Be sure not to use your immense talents as a writer to play word gymnastics. Instead, be honest. See how it goes.

 

You tell him honey😘

[kevon67 2,368]

On 6/13/2019 at 3:27 PM, McLoofus said:

Ah. So you're a homophobic cretinous writer. High five bro. Is 1985 still awesome? You're really winning today.

Slap my momma but do NOT speak ill of 1985.........."Take on Me" was mine and Leigh's song........OUR song😢😢😢😢😢😂

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

4 hours ago, DAG said:

Are you comparing Gus to Bob Stoops? I am not comparing to Gus. I am just saying he has a reputation of choking in big games. That is why I think we need to not only be prisoners of the moment.  Now, all we know is Gus, so it sounds good to have someone who chokes in big games rather than against those teams. But eventually, you will get sick of that. You don't think so now because everyone is sick of the Gus inconsistency, so pretty much anything sounds good. The hard truth is Bob Stoops is going to have more than just a Texas and/or some surprise team to worry about annually. 

But let's take a look

2001: #4 OU loses to a 4-7 Oklahoma State 

2002: #1 OU loses to the Aggies who end up 6-6

2003: They lose the Big 12 championship handily as #1 team to a gritty # 12 Kansas State team. Still, Make it to the national championship and lose.

2004: Dominate regular season. Killed by USC in NC game (AU should've been there ahh)

2005: 8-4

2006: Lose to 7-6 Oregon, but they played at Eugene, which is a tough game. Loss the defining Boise State game. Mind you; this team had Adrian Peterson. Still a quality season

2007: Lose to 6-7 Colorado and 9-4 Texas Tech. OU was ranked #3 in both games. Also annihilated by WVU in the bowl game BUT WV was an excellent team that year IMO. Still, considered an upset as OU was also ranked #3 going into that game. They did beat #1 ranked Missouri in the big 12 championship game though!

2008:  was a great year. They loss to two outstanding teams in Florida and Texas

2009:  Down year. Preseason ranking of 3, end up 8-5 and unranked

2010: Loss to Missouri as #3 ranked team (But again that was a good ten win Mizzou team) Loss to unranked Texas A&M at the time (Quality team ended up being ranked at the end of the year)

2011: Loss to unranked TT as the #3 team at the time (Tommy Tubs coached Texas Tech who was 5-7 that year). Also, loss to Baylor and Oklahoma State but those two teams were very quality. It happens

2012: Was a good year. They just loss to 3 good teams (It happens)

2013: Loss to unranked Texas (Rivalry game) and Eventual Big 12 champions Baylor (Very good team)

2014: Loss to TCU who was #25 at the time as preseason #4 team. Down year. Ended up 8-5 and unranked.  Annihilated by Clemson in the bowl game.

2015:  was a great year. Just overmatched by a great Clemson

2016: Loses an opening game to a quality Houston team. Absolutely destroyed by Ohio State. Kills us in our bowl game (Ouch).

2000: Beast. Won an NC that year

Bob Stoops record is impeccable (190-48). Consistent nine-game winner there (I love it). What I don't like..1 NC with 4 Postseason appearances in an 18-year tenure at OU, who arguably were the most talented most years in the big 12. As I have said before, I would welcome him with open arms if he came here, but I will be expecting multiple NC victories. Definitely at least one NC victory.

I'd still take his 10 conference championships and be satisfied.

[DAG 33,997]

1 hour ago, Carnell said:

You say they choked on a national stage because the stage was way to big but the stage was not to big in 2000 when they beat FSu and won the championship. 

Yes, and ? With the talent OU gets they shouldn't be getting annihilated in the biggest games of their schedule consistently.. It is one thing to lose competitively. It is another thing to get annihilated uncharacteristically, with arguably one of the best RBs ever in your backfield. Like I said before, that next year USC team was considered the best team ever prior to losing to Texas. People were saying they were better than those Miami and Nebraska teams and one dude carried Texas passed them. Mind you, OU had just loss the previous year to LSU in the NC game. This was a tough game, but they had also loss the big 12 championship (In horrible fashion mind you) prior to that, which reminds me, you never answered my question in regards to that game. The next year they get annihilated by this same UT who faced USC in the championship game. Any who, are you starting to see a trend?

2003: 35 - 7 to Kansas State in the big 12 championship

2004: USC 55-19 in the NC game

2005: 45-12 against their biggest rival. 

1 hour ago, Carnell said:

In your post you mention quarterbacks and running backs but as I mentioned in my earlier post USC clearly had the most dominate offensive and defensive line in the game and that is where USC won the game (in fact USCs guards dominated Okies DTs all night long.

Part of this is true, but OU moved the ball very well in that opening drive. IMO, The game was lost in the turnover battle with OU committed 5 turnovers to USC-0. An especially game-changing play was where OUs special teams player fumbled the punt in their own red zone in a tied game toward the end of the 1st quarter. This ultimately led to an easy USC touchdown. On the very next drive, Jason White threw an uncharacteristic interception early in the second quarter. This led to yet another USC TD. Two TDS off of two turnovers early in the game.  On the very next drive, Jason White threw another interception, which leads to a USC TD. That is three Turnovers in about a 5-minute span, all leading to TDs. After that, the wheels fall off for OU. Again, they had the same dominant lines the very next year with all of their impactful skill players returning and loss in a highly competitive game.

1 hour ago, Carnell said:

  I can not speak for Auburn people but if a Gus coached team got beat like Okies did in the LOC I would not say Gus choked but Auburn got beat by a far superior team no matter what the rankings are.  

And this is where DISAGREE. USC was better that game, but, IMO, they did not have a FAR superior team than OU, they had a better team than OU. OU was favored by 1 point for a reason. Early Turnovers and momentum was the biggest swing. They turned the ball over four times in the first half. All four led to USC scoring 24 points in the first half.  Five total turnovers led to USCs 31 of 55 points . Shoot, you won't beat Texas Tech like that, let alone USC. There is no reason OU should've gotten killed like that. But we will have to agree to disagree on this one. You don't consider this a choke, I do. 

1 hour ago, Carnell said:

that it was not necessarily that stoops was the one that choked.

How? This one right here is much more a concern for me. In your other response to me, you take a much in-depth approach to me mentioning of Stoops choking. Maybe you only disagree in regards to how I feel about the USC game. That is fair. This is water under the bridge. However, I do take issue with your mindset on this one. For example, let's go back to the FSU game where you say, Gus choked the game away.

 

3 hours ago, Carnell said:

you have to look at it as 1) Was the other team better 2) if not what caused the loss.

Was FSU better than us in 2013? On paper, I have to say yes.  Look at this graphic underneath

22 guys from this team ended up playing in the NFL. 11 on the offensive end. 11 on the defensive end. At one point on both sides of the ball, all of these players were on the field. That is unbelievable.

 

3 hours ago, Carnell said:

The others losses mentioned I dont remember but clearly appear to be choke jobs because the Okies were a better team however from that you have to look at what caused the loss. 

I don't know why were are all of a sudden making this distinction, especially when an uber-talented team who is favored loses to an over match team but let's continue with FSU. 

3 hours ago, Carnell said:

Clearly Stoops is a defensive guy and if the loss was due to poor offensive playcalling then was it stoops that choked.  In addition, the gameplan may have been a good one but the players just failed to execute the plan. 

In the FSU game, Auburn had a total of 450 yards and put up 31 points.  This FSU team defense was only giving up 12 ppg throughout the season and only 281 yards per game. From this standpoint, it looks like the Auburn offense definitely did their share of work against what was considered a very good defensive squad at the time. 

You also mention failed execution of the game plan in regards to Stoops, but don't apply it to the 2013 game: 

Nick Marshall and Ricardo have a terribly executed WIDE OPEN touchdown on the opening drive. 

There is a missed 33-yard FG attempt by Parkey when we were already up 14-3 in the second quarter

We allow FSU to convert a punt fake, which allows them to get points on the board before half

We allow a kick off return after getting an FG, which gives FSU the lead

We score with 1 minute left in the game, but they drive down the field for the go-ahead after a misplaced angle by a member of the secondary

A lot of this had a huge impact on that final score,

3 hours ago, Carnell said:

this is different than gus because if the team chokes due to poor play calling or offensive scheme this is a direct link to gus since he is also defacto OC and playcaller. 

It seems like the team was put in position plenty of times to pull away, but the TEAM (Coaches and players) let the little things get away. Nevertheless, I still say we choked the lead away and that directly falls at the HC feet. 

3 hours ago, Carnell said:

there appears to only be an indirect link to Stoops choking. Again, How so?

[DAG 33,997]

6 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

I'd still take his 10 conference championships and be satisfied.

Big 12 vs SEC. Big difference. He had the luxury of having the best talent majority of the time, so yes, he should win a good majority of the conference championships. Just like Gus should be winning the games he is supposed to be winning. All I ask is that the critiquing be fair across the board.

[kevon67 2,368]

50 minutes ago, DAG said:

Big 12 vs SEC. Big difference. He had the luxury of having the best talent majority of the time, so yes, he should win a good majority of the conference championships. Just like Gus should be winning the games he is supposed to be winning. All I ask is that the critiquing be fair across the board.

Well put Dag.

[Tiger Refuge 6,671]

3 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Any time you need something from the auJeff one stop shop just holler.

Now let’s revisit this morning when I said I thought FSU, both LSU’s, and Tennessee were the only real choke jobs under Gus.

I’m just giving my interpretation of the definition posted. 

 

 

Nah, I’m good. I don’t see any need to rehash. 

 

Have a good’ern.

[aucanucktiger 1,794]

Chizik showed how quickly good will from a NC can disolve around here so IMO had Gus won it in '13 he'd still be on hot water w/ many. '18 UT & last 2 LSU games notwithstanding i dont have specific issues w/ him mainly b/c of our unforgiving schedules and personally dont think but 3 or 4 HCs could have done better w/ those schedules.

[aujeff11 6,243]

13 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

Nah, I’m good. I don’t see any need to rehash. 

 

Have a good’ern.

I didn’t ask to rehash. I revisited it for you.