Practice News & Notes: 8/14 (Scrimmage #2)

[DAG 34,017]

 

11 minutes ago, AUEngineer2016 said:

The thing I think you're discounting though is that no matter who wins the job, at some point this season we will be put into a situation where we need to rely on the QB's ability to pass the ball to win the game. Yes, Joey is much more dynamic when he can go live, nobody is arguing that. What I'm arguing though is that it's possible the coaches are trying to test his ability to step into the pocket and make a throw vs tucking it and running (which would be his natural instinct). 

I don't know why this is so very hard to understand, but nonetheless.

[cole256 17,084]

15 minutes ago, bigbird said:

So things that matter most to a QB?

Only if it stays when it's actual pressure. If that accuracy goes away when you're getting popped in the mouth then you have some evaluating to do

[AUEngineer2016 407]

1 minute ago, Win4AU said:

 

I think the better comparison from that year is actually Marshall --> Uzomah in the Miss State game. 2nd and 7 w/ 15 seconds left in the game and 1 timeout that you'd like to use for a FG if needed.

Marshall's tendency in JUCO would've been to tuck it and run from the 14. Could he have gotten it? Maybe. Instead he makes a throw to Uzomah for the win. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 minutes ago, AUEngineer2016 said:

The thing I think you're discounting though is that no matter who wins the job, at some point this season we will be put into a situation where we need to rely on the QB's ability to pass the ball to win the game. Yes, Joey is much more dynamic when he can go live, nobody is arguing that. What I'm arguing though is that it's possible the coaches are trying to test his ability to step into the pocket and make a throw vs tucking it and running (which would be his natural instinct). 

Tucking it and running is a great reaction for a drive midway through the 3rd quarter in a 1 possession ballgame. But if it's the 4th quarter w/ a minute to go and we need to drive down the field to win, we need Joey to make a throw, not tuck it and run. If he can't do that, we need to know that now, not later.

It appears to me that

1(Malzahn knows his job is on the line and needs the highest floor QB  available right now.

2( He’s not willing to wait on the maturity of a high ceiling QB even if it means ultimately missing on the potential of QB already capable of running the read option offense which is within his comfort zone. 

3; I don’t know how well Gatewood reads defenses, but I don’t think he’s as inaccurate as what people are tying to make him out to be. His accuracy looked serviceable on his deeper throws in the A Day game. 

 

[Win4AU 4,054]

Just now, AUEngineer2016 said:

I think the better comparison from that year is actually Marshall --> Uzomah in the Miss State game. 2nd and 7 w/ 15 seconds left in the game and 1 timeout that you'd like to use for a FG if needed.

Marshall's tendency in JUCO would've been to tuck it and run from the 14. Could he have gotten it? Maybe. Instead he makes a throw to Uzomah for the win. 

Sure.  I was joking around with what was said.  I agree on the point they were trying to make.  Gotta be able to move the ball both ways or as we saw with JF3 against Vandy everything comes to a screeching stop.

[bigbird 60,580]

2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Only if it stays when it's actual pressure. If that accuracy goes away when you're getting popped in the mouth then you have some evaluating to do

So you would say Nix has the potential to do those things?

[aujeff11 6,243]

8 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

 

 

I remember when the Washington State QB said he wasn’t “a real QB.”

The maturity can come if the talent and work ethic is already there. 

[DAG 34,017]

If JG can do this every game cool, but not even Cam could do such a thing. So, yes JG priority as of right now should be working on making every type of throw possible.

[AUEngineer2016 407]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

It appears to me that

1(Malzahn knows his job is on the line and needs the highest floor QB  available right now.

2( He’s not willing to wait on the maturity of a high ceiling QB even if it means ultimately missing on the potential of QB already capable of running the read option offense which is within his comfort zone. 

3; I don’t know how well Gatewood reads defenses, but I don’t think he’s as inaccurate as what people are tying to make him out to be. His accuracy looked serviceable on his deeper throws in the A Day game. 

 

3 is the point I'm trying to make though- Accuracy (or throw power for that matter) doesn't tell the whole story for a QB's passing ability. If a QB always tucks and runs instead of stepping into the pocket and throwing the ball, he becomes much more one-dimensional.

Don't think of keeping him from running as hampering him, think of it as taking away his crutch, or the thing he falls back on whenever he has adversity in the passing game. The only way Joey will grow as a passer is if he has to pass the ball in pressure situations. The more you put him in those situations, the more comfortable he will be with stepping into the pocket vs trying to scramble.

[cole256 17,084]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

So you would say Nix has the potential to do those things?

Absolutely if he's been doing it. I'm all for what you do, I'm not much for the video game made up strengths and weaknesses though. That's why I initially said stuff need to be live. The team would decide who 's the starter then. Who's a leader, who's tough....can't find it playing 2 hand touch

[aujeff11 6,243]

Just now, DAG said:

If JG can do this every game cool, but not even Cam could do such a thing. So, yes JG priority as of right now should be working on making every type of throw possible.

He’s been doing that all summer long. He will never be as accurate or nuanced as a QB as Bo. Doesn’t mean a cat can only be skinned one way either. 

[Win4AU 4,054]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

If JG can do this every game cool, but not even Cam could do such a thing. So, yes JG priority as of right now should be working on making every type of throw possible.

This is the type of offense you’d have to run with Joey.  Cam wasn’t asked to throw a lot in games and a lot of those throws were to back the defense up to give more running room.  Cam made some amazing clutch throws but also had games like Clemson where he couldn’t complete a pass in the first half and threw 1 or 2 ints.

[DAG 34,017]

Just now, aujeff11 said:

He’s been doing that all summer long. He will never be as accurate or nuanced as a QB as Bo. Doesn’t mean a cat can only be skinned one way either. 

But you realize our defense is not Alabama or UGA, right? 

Those teams are not just going to let you beat them tucking and running UNLESS you are proven to be unstoppable like Cam Newton and even then in the iron bowl CN had to prove he could pass the ball. So why would you not take the time now to work on those things before you come to a situation where you have to make a CAMBACK?

[Barnacle 9,064]

32 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Interesting!!! I thought it was a net benefit for  Gatewood to not go live. 

Said it could be. Never said it was or would be. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 minutes ago, AUEngineer2016 said:

The only way Joey will grow as a passer is if he has to pass the ball in pressure situations. The more you put him in those situations, the more comfortable he will be with stepping into the pocket vs trying to scramble.

I agree that he would need to be pressed into becoming a pocket passer. Don’t agree that his primary tool should be taken away. Just in general, development has to start from something and then work your way up from the foundation. Joey is in an audition right now. If he earned the job based on his overall game, then we could hammer home passing drills and get him more well rounded. 

[DAG 34,017]

Basketball examples have been made on this point, so I am going to add another. 90 % of fans don't remember Giannis being able to drive to the hoop at will, but a great amount of fans do remember him being unable to do it against Kawhi Leonard. I am sure JG can run wild against majority of the teams on our schedule, but rest assured there are going to come a team or two where that will not be the case.

[AUEngineer2016 407]

7 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

This is the type of offense you’d have to run with Joey.  Cam wasn’t asked to throw a lot in games and a lot of those throws were to back the defense up to give more running room.  Cam made some amazing clutch throws but also had games like Clemson where he couldn’t complete a pass in the first half and threw 1 or 2 ints.

The last 2 games of 2010 would like to say hello. 

37-62 (59.7%), 600 yds, 6 TD, 1 INT, 169.7 Rating

36 rushes, 137 yds, 3.8 Avg, 2 TDs

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/cam-newton-1/gamelog/#19-20-sum:gamelog

[aujeff11 6,243]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

Those teams are not just going to let you beat them tucking and running UNLESS you are proven to be unstoppable like Cam Newton and even then in the iron bowl CN had to prove he could pass the ball.

Game one NM or CN probably wouldn’t beat Alabama either. Joey Gatewood isn’t a finished product. He’s literally younger than Nix.

[aujeff11 6,243]

28 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

So... What you are saying is that it's not shocking that the QB who hasn't gotten any love from the press all camp is now being reported as being awesome when able to go live... But it is fair to judge him in a competition while taking away his biggest threat? 

Just trying to figure out your thinking here... 

Just to clarify...by your thinking... I (a person who has wanted Joey as our QB for YEARS) all the while being told he will never be QB at Auburn, he needs to change to TE, he wasn't even a starter in high school,  meanwhile Nix is getting all the love by the press in camp. ALL OF IT. We are going multiple days without hearing a single thing about Gatewood other than "Gatewood wasn't as accurate" as @aujeff11, myself,  and a few others stated all along it wasn't a fair competition if you take away Joey's biggest strength...

That I should not be stoked hearing it reported that the 5* prodigy had caught up because of not going live (which backs what Jeff and I had claimed and been told... Na it doesn't matter that he can't go live)

I don't care. Either way...

The DL discussion escalated quickly. 

[DAG 34,017]

22 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Game one NM or CN probably wouldn’t beat Alabama either. Joey Gatewood isn’t a finished product. He’s literally younger than Nix.

Again, why would you not practice this stuff before hand. By age? yes. He has been a collegiate athlete and in this offense far longer than Bo. I am not arguing that he can't progressively become a better passer, I am saying why are you so against him progressively working on his passing BEFORE the season? This just does not make any sense to me. I rather learn as much as I can on orientation before saying let me just progressively learn off of it.

[aujeff11 6,243]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

Again, why would you not practice this stuff before hand.

Who said he isn’t? 

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

I am saying why are you so against him progressively working on his passing BEFORE the season?

I’m not. Working on it and being restricted to it is two different things. Just one scrimmage would suffice be sufficient for me.

 

Who says Bo is as capable of a passer when he’s bout to get drilled? Nobody,  because it’s unknown. Plenty of information could be had if we went live one time 

[aubiefifty 16,909]

in honor of all the little fires poping up...........

[DAG 34,017]

Just now, aujeff11 said:

Who said he isn’t? 

I’m not. Working on it and being restricted to it is two different things. Just one scrimmage would suffice be sufficient for me.

 

Who says Bo is as capable of a passer when he’s bout to get drilled? Nobody,  because it’s unknown. Plenty of information could be had if we went live one time 

I am sure he is but the consistent message we are getting is Bo is a better and more accurate passer.  So even with all the reps, he seems to be behind based on the messages we are getting. 

I have no clue if Bo is a better passer when he is about to get drilled. Do you know if JG is a good passer, if he is about to get drilled? No. What we do know is he can run. But that will NOT be enough. So why not work on his passing and make him an incredible prospect? My thinking is Gus has learned that he can't rely on a primary runner at the QB position, despite the success of 2013. Coaches and defenses have adjusted for that. I honestly think Gus is prioritizing starting the guy who can make all the necessary throws. This is just my opinion. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

1 hour ago, api1957 said:

Just some stats to fan the flames...

2017: 23.5 sacks (with Holland)

2018: 23 sacks ( one less game but more blitzes)

And go...

how many defensive snaps were there each year?

[api1957 1,783]

1 minute ago, auburnphan said:

how many defensive snaps were there each year?

I dunno 🤷🏻‍♂️. TFL also went from 82 to 96. But I imagine with the offense being down it put our defense on the field more. Goes to show how much one thing can effect (or is it affect) the entire team.