Coaching Candidates

[DAG 34,017]

16 minutes ago, AU80cruiser said:

I want to start this off by saying that I'm a fan of Clark. I'd like to see a tougher Auburn football team like I remember in the past and it seems Clark is the type of coach that could bring it back. Gus keeps talking about getting our edge back but he doesnt have an edge to his personality so I dont see him ever coaching it into his players. Im hopeful Clark could inject some more toughness to the team especially the Oline.

Also, I quoted malcolm_flex48 but welcome any and all feedback on the question I posed.

That all said, what do you think will happen to our current recruits if he brings his UAB staff over to replace our current staff? That would scare the hell out of me if he replaced our entire staff with his from UAB. He has got to get some big names or atleast keep most of our defensive staff intact for me to feel like he could be a real option. We can agree on the latter, or no?

The current recruits need to by into the coach and his philosophy not just names. If they can't buy into the vision he is selling, based on his previous of body work, then they should not follow him to Auburn. I think that is where I totally disagree with you. If it is about the name, then might as well not even get someone like Clark. Go find someone with a prestigious name and hope they come to Auburn. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

13 hours ago, AURex said:

Let's just be clear. AU has never, ever, hired a top tier coach, unless you count maybe Heisman back in the dark ages. Auburn hires coaches from FCS and lower ranked fbs schools. This is who Auburn hires. 

Dye - Wyoming.
Chizik - Iowa State.
Malzahm - Arky State.
Tuberville - Ole Miss.
Oliver - Chattanooga
Bowden - Samford
Barfield .......

So if you are thinking Myer, Stoops, or any other coach with FBS cred, just X that out. It ain't gonna happen.

 

You're list, and the history it represents, is correct.  No arguing that.

I'm just hoping that....

#1: the forward thinking that hired Bruce & Butch is a sign of things to come.

#2: the forward thinking that hired AD AG is a sign of things to come.

#3: said AD, who evidently fought to MAINTAIN Bruce, is a sign of things to come.

Now that being said, I'm firmly against going after Meyer (I've stated my issues with him too many times) but Stoops is intriguing.  That being said, he wouldn't be my first choice either.  Bird's list is solid though.

[aubaseball 2,652]

Although he just had a heart issue, Mark Richt, is a name that should be in consideration 

[AU80cruiser 1,102]

52 minutes ago, DAG said:

The current recruits need to by into the coach and his philosophy not just names. If they can't buy into the vision he is selling, based on his previous of body work, then they should not follow him to Auburn. I think that is where I totally disagree with you. If it is about the name, then might as well not even get someone like Clark. Go find someone with a prestigious name and hope they come to Auburn. 

I dont disagree with you at all. I think that is what will happen with recruits if we get Clark. Im just on the fence on whether I think Clark is the guy to go with which is why I was looking at some possible inside info on what Malcom thought about Clarks capability of matching wits with some big time coordinators/assistants. Could he pull them and be the alpha head coach over some big time OCs/DCs/assistants. Does he have the football knowledge/experience to not be out classed? Recruiting will be fine if he can.

[DAG 34,017]

59 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

Although he just had a heart issue, Mark Richt, is a name that should be in consideration 

Mark Richt had trouble getting over the hump at UGA at a time when the SEC east was relatively weak. I don't know how well he would do in the SEC West.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

I'll chime in one last time on the subject. I don't think we have a Gus problem. I think we have a Nick Saban, Kirby Smart, Jimbo Fisher, Ed Orgeron, etc problem. The fact that we recruit within the Top-5 to 15 range year in, year out should yield any team consistent success.

Do you think Lincoln Riley is just THAT much better than Malzahn? Or could it be that there's only one other team to compete with for talent out in the Midwest? Or how about Ryan Day or John Heupel who inherited their teams? Would you trade Malzahn for Jim Harbaugh? Or maybe Les Miles? Both of those coaches have pedigree and winning records at the position

My point is perspective. We're in a unique position in that under Gus we've been in Top-10 conversation every year and yet it takes a Herculean effort to win more than 8 a year. Plug Auburn into any other conference and do you think we're still having this conversation? Doubtful. 

And as I've said before, after the whirlwind season we had in 2017, Auburn was right (at the time) to extend Malzahn's contract regardless of how valid the Arkansas rumors were or weren't. And if you want Gus gone now you either: have to find a better coach, which means paying a King's ransom for Gus' and this new coach's buyouts... Or pay Gus' buyout and take a gamble on an unproven coach and run the risk of falling behind in recruiting and suffering losses as said coach gets "his guys" on the team (see Tennessee, S. Carolina, and Arkansas for instance). And I know we seem to be enamored with second chance Head Coaches and retirees but more often than not, those are just as big a gamble.

In conclusion I think Malzahn is a really good coach who recruits well, runs a clean program, and has consistently put us in title conversation despite some very volatile momentum swings and bad breaks. And I hope the powers that be are much more level headed than the fanbase because there are only a scant few individuals who could possibly perform above Malzahn in this current landscape and they are few and far between.

[Carnell 592]

On 10/21/2019 at 2:53 PM, DAG said:

On 10/21/2019 at 2:53 PM, DAG said:

You aren’t asking for my opinion but I don’t understand why people think because someone doesn’t have power 5 experience, they wouldn’t be able to snag quality coordinators. The fact that he is at Auburn would open doors to more qualified applicants in itself. I mean Dabo had no power 5 experience and he fired the previous DC and bought in Kevin Steel from Nick Saban. It totally can be done. However, I want the coach to bring in the staff that works and not just names. If he has a quality staff that works, he should keep that staff intact. That is how you build culture. Or he can pull an Urban Meyer and keep the coordinators. 

You aren’t asking for my opinion but I don’t understand why people think because someone doesn’t have power 5 experience, they wouldn’t be able to snag quality coordinators. The fact that he is at Auburn would open doors to more qualified applicants in itself. I mean Dabo had no power 5 experience and he fired the previous DC and bought in Kevin Steel from Nick Saban. It totally can be done. However, I want the coach to bring in the staff that works and not just names. If he has a quality staff that works, he should keep that staff intact. That is how you build culture. Or he can pull an Urban Meyer and keep the coordinators. 

First of all Dabo had a lot of power 5 experience at Alabama and Clemson before becoming HC.  While he was not and OC at either he was appointed  AHC at Clemson in which the HC (albeit was Tommy Bowden) that named him but the HC is saying that he is qualified to gameplan, to conduct practices and etc.

Coaches like Clark  are  Gus clones high school coaches.  I dont know why Steele who is vastly more experienced than Gus would come work for Gus.  Maybe it is becuase Steele is Defense and Gus is offense so maybe he figured Gus would not bother him.  But one thing to consider it does not matter.   However the reason a guy like Clark may not be able to secure quality coaches especially Defense (since Clark is a defensive guy) is he egotistical and believes his high school defense will work at the SEC level and directs his DC to run his high school defense.  Do any of you believe that a DC worth his salt such as Aranda, Grantham etc will take the job under those conditions.  Even if  there was one that came to Auburn the results would be the same the defense would still be sorry.  The coach goes out and dictates this the offense/defense I ran at Prattville HS we are going to run it at AU,  would not attract quality canadiates.  

[DAG 34,017]

37 minutes ago, Carnell said:

First of all Dabo had a lot of power 5 experience at Alabama and Clemson before becoming HC.  While he was not and OC at either he was appointed  AHC at Clemson in which the HC (albeit was Tommy Bowden) that named him but the HC is saying that he is qualified to gameplan, to conduct practices and etc.

Coaches like Clark  are  Gus clones high school coaches.  I dont know why Steele who is vastly more experienced than Gus would come work for Gus.  Maybe it is becuase Steele is Defense and Gus is offense so maybe he figured Gus would not bother him.  But one thing to consider it does not matter.   However the reason a guy like Clark may not be able to secure quality coaches especially Defense (since Clark is a defensive guy) is he egotistical and believes his high school defense will work at the SEC level and directs his DC to run his high school defense.  Do any of you believe that a DC worth his salt such as Aranda, Grantham etc will take the job under those conditions.  Even if  there was one that came to Auburn the results would be the same the defense would still be sorry.  The coach goes out and dictates this the offense/defense I ran at Prattville HS we are going to run it at AU,  would not attract quality canadiates.  

Dabo Swinney had approximately Zero head coach experience before Tommy Bowden, who pulled him from being a positional coach from Bama gave him an opportunity due to their relationship. He was a positional coach and great recruiter prior to being named interim coach for half a year due to the resignation of Bowden . That’s hardly any experience worth noting to validate him as a leader of a program. The truth of the matter is they gave him an opportunity and he took the opportunity and ran with it. But you are also the same guy who said James Franklin would be an excellent hire too so there is that. 
 

Ironically, you call coach Bill a Gus clone yet Jeff Scott is much closer to Gus than Bill. This dude came from an high school, pretty much a positional coach for most of his tenure and has been a CO offensive coordinator with Clemson. He  is not even tasking the duties alone. Yet you say this guy is an excellent hire. 

[Carnell 592]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Dabo Swinney had approximately Zero head coach experience before Tommy Bowden, who pulled him from being a positional coach from Bama gave him an opportunity due to their relationship. He was a positional coach and great recruiter prior to being named interim coach for half a year due to the resignation of Bowden . That’s hardly any experience worth noting to validate him as a leader of a program. The truth of the matter is they gave him an opportunity and he took the opportunity and ran with it. But you are also the same guy who said James Franklin would be an excellent hire too so there is that. 

First of all i said he was assistant head coach at Clemson which makes him more than a position coach.  While two years is not a lot of time top show head coaching ability that coupled with the experience at Alabama and Clemson would on paper make him qualified.   I  would not have hired him with the caveat from Bowden that he was a good game planner, good at preparing practices and on but as AHC he had experience game planning.

Just because you say James Franklin is not a good coach doesnt make it so.  He had to negotiate PSU out of scandel and they are beginning to show signs of becoming a good football team.  If you ask people in the know about who they would rather have as their coach James Franklin or Bill Clark you will get a resounding James Franklin.  So there is that.

[DAG 34,017]

18 minutes ago, Carnell said:

First of all i said he was assistant head coach at Clemson which makes him more than a position coach.  While two years is not a lot of time top show head coaching ability that coupled with the experience at Alabama and Clemson would on paper make him qualified.   I  would not have hired him with the caveat from Bowden that he was a good game planner, good at preparing practices and on but as AHC he had experience game planning.

Just because you say James Franklin is not a good coach doesnt make it so.  He had to negotiate PSU out of scandel and they are beginning to show signs of becoming a good football team.  If you ask people in the know about who they would rather have as their coach James Franklin or Bill Clark you will get a resounding James Franklin.  So there is that.

Never said he wasn’t a good coach. I said he is not an excellent coach as you plainly put it. Neither is Foster. You said he had a lot of experience at Clemson and Bama as a reason why to rationalize him getting a chance at Clemson. He had zero experience as a coordinator or HC , so they took a huge ass chance with him being a HC. A big reason he got the gig was because he was and is a great recruiter and I know many of their fans wanted to keep him there at the very least to keep recruitment intact. Don’t act like that wasn’t a huge risk. Yeah because you are plugged in with people in the know, right?

And Foster is an excellent coaching prospect? Laughable. 

[Carnell 592]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

Never said he wasn’t a good coach. I said he is not an excellent coach as you plainly put it. Neither is Foster. You said he had a lot of experience at Clemson and Bama as a reason why to rationalize him getting a chance at Clemson. He had zero experience as a coordinator or HC , so they took a huge ass chance with him being a HC. A big reason he got the gig was because he was and is a great recruiter and I know many of their fans wanted to keep him there at the very least to keep recruitment intact. Don’t act like that wasn’t a huge risk. Yeah because you are plugged in with people in the know, right?

And Foster is an excellent coaching prospect? Laughable. 

no not plugged in just common sense

[DAG 34,017]

9 minutes ago, Carnell said:

no not plugged in just common sense

Then you would know calling those two coaching candidates excellent is ridiculous as hell. 

[DAG 34,017]

36 minutes ago, Carnell said:

He had to negotiate PSU out of scandel and they are beginning to show signs of becoming a good football team.

What?!  He didn't do any of that. Bill O Brien was the coach who took over PSU after the scandal and left after his second year for an NFL HC gig. Only then, did James Franklin get the job.

[cole256 17,084]

14 minutes ago, Carnell said:

no not plugged in just common sense

Your frustrations are warranted, we all just want what's best for the football team when it comes down to it

[weagl1 1,789]

Gus is not going anywhere. He will be the Auburn coach next year unless he gets tired of all the grief he gets and resigns.  I can’t believe anyone on this forum has any confidence in our university’s collective ability to find one better and hire him.  Getting rid of Gus, eating a $27 million buyout (or whatever the number will be after this season is done) and spending another $50 million or so on a “big name” would not only be totally nuts from a financial standpoint it would likely blow up into a mess like UT and Arky are experiencing now.  From the moment that 2017 contract was signed we were locked into Gus for the foreseeable future.  He and the team could use our support.  Some big games are coming up!  

[The Freak 2,528]

56 minutes ago, weagl1 said:

Gus is not going anywhere. He will be the Auburn coach next year unless he gets tired of all the grief he gets and resigns.  I can’t believe anyone on this forum has any confidence in our university’s collective ability to find one better and hire him.  Getting rid of Gus, eating a $27 million buyout (or whatever the number will be after this season is done) and spending another $50 million or so on a “big name” would not only be totally nuts from a financial standpoint it would likely blow up into a mess like UT and Arky are experiencing now.  From the moment that 2017 contract was signed we were locked into Gus for the foreseeable future.  He and the team could use our support.  Some big games are coming up!  

You're about half right.  Bolded words above are spot on.  Others, not so much.

[Carnell 592]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

What?!  He didn't do any of that. Bill O Brien was the coach who took over PSU after the scandal and left after his second year for an NFL HC gig. Only then, did James Franklin get the job.

Why did bill O'Brien leave because of the scandal to take a the position with the Texans with james Franklin coming in to clean up.

[bigbird 60,580]

Gus is absolutely not safe but he's not necessarily on the hit seat either. He knows the situation. The amount needed to move to replace is substantial but not that big of a stretch.

I've been told and have said it here before, it's not necessarily who we lose to but in what manner we lose. If we lose hard fought games, then there isn't an issue and he'll be back. If we go out, look unprepared, make inexcusable/inexplicable decisions (coxcat/5 QBs/17 dives), and get blown out and embarrassed, then there is a good chance he will be replaced.

The money is there but just like all of us, they don't want to have to spend it...Especially the one footing the major portion of it. 

[WalkingCarpet 1,379]

8 hours ago, JBiGGiE said:

I'll chime in one last time on the subject. I don't think we have a Gus problem. I think we have a Nick Saban, Kirby Smart, Jimbo Fisher, Ed Orgeron, etc problem. The fact that we recruit within the Top-5 to 15 range year in, year out should yield any team consistent success.

Do you think Lincoln Riley is just THAT much better than Malzahn? Or could it be that there's only one other team to compete with for talent out in the Midwest? Or how about Ryan Day or John Heupel who inherited their teams? Would you trade Malzahn for Jim Harbaugh? Or maybe Les Miles? Both of those coaches have pedigree and winning records at the position

My point is perspective. We're in a unique position in that under Gus we've been in Top-10 conversation every year and yet it takes a Herculean effort to win more than 8 a year. Plug Auburn into any other conference and do you think we're still having this conversation? Doubtful. 

And as I've said before, after the whirlwind season we had in 2017, Auburn was right (at the time) to extend Malzahn's contract regardless of how valid the Arkansas rumors were or weren't. And if you want Gus gone now you either: have to find a better coach, which means paying a King's ransom for Gus' and this new coach's buyouts... Or pay Gus' buyout and take a gamble on an unproven coach and run the risk of falling behind in recruiting and suffering losses as said coach gets "his guys" on the team (see Tennessee, S. Carolina, and Arkansas for instance). And I know we seem to be enamored with second chance Head Coaches and retirees but more often than not, those are just as big a gamble.

In conclusion I think Malzahn is a really good coach who recruits well, runs a clean program, and has consistently put us in title conversation despite some very volatile momentum swings and bad breaks. And I hope the powers that be are much more level headed than the fanbase because there are only a scant few individuals who could possibly perform above Malzahn in this current landscape and they are few and far between.

I agree with most everything you said, but at the same time you gotta put it together and win some football games against good teams eventually. When you read articles about how it dawned on Gus halfway into his seventh season to put our two best receivers on the field at the same time (who then immediately dominate the first game under this new plan) it makes you have uncomfortable thoughts about what's going on behind the scenes. It makes some more farsighted fans wonder what we might look like if we had one of these guys like Matt Campbell or Scott Satterfield who have made a career getting every ounce of football they can out of 2* and 3* players. 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

3 hours ago, WalkingCarpet said:

...but at the same time you gotta put it together and win some football games against good teams eventually. 

 You mean kind of like 2017 when our Tigers beat UGA and bammer to end the regular season before going into the SECCG short handed due to injuries?

Injury luck (or lack thereof) has played a big role in AU football fortunes at the end of the season several times in recent years. And Malzahn is the only active coach in the SEC to beat Saban more than once.  If Saban is so good and Malzahn so...whatever it is some on this board think that he is...how is it that AU coached by Malzahn had managed to stay in the stadium at all with Saban's bammer teams?  

Those hankering for a new coach might consider the adage "Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it."

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

You mean kind of like 2017

How many more years are y'all gonna keep going back to that well?

Can't believe we got a "But November 2017!" to go along with all the "But Tennessees!"s in this thread. 

[aubaseball 2,652]

19 hours ago, JBiGGiE said:

I'll chime in one last time on the subject. I don't think we have a Gus problem. I think we have a Nick Saban, Kirby Smart, Jimbo Fisher, Ed Orgeron, etc problem. The fact that we recruit within the Top-5 to 15 range year in, year out should yield any team consistent success.

Do you think Lincoln Riley is just THAT much better than Malzahn? Or could it be that there's only one other team to compete with for talent out in the Midwest? Or how about Ryan Day or John Heupel who inherited their teams? Would you trade Malzahn for Jim Harbaugh? Or maybe Les Miles? Both of those coaches have pedigree and winning records at the position

My point is perspective. We're in a unique position in that under Gus we've been in Top-10 conversation every year and yet it takes a Herculean effort to win more than 8 a year. Plug Auburn into any other conference and do you think we're still having this conversation? Doubtful. 

And as I've said before, after the whirlwind season we had in 2017, Auburn was right (at the time) to extend Malzahn's contract regardless of how valid the Arkansas rumors were or weren't. And if you want Gus gone now you either: have to find a better coach, which means paying a King's ransom for Gus' and this new coach's buyouts... Or pay Gus' buyout and take a gamble on an unproven coach and run the risk of falling behind in recruiting and suffering losses as said coach gets "his guys" on the team (see Tennessee, S. Carolina, and Arkansas for instance). And I know we seem to be enamored with second chance Head Coaches and retirees but more often than not, those are just as big a gamble.

In conclusion I think Malzahn is a really good coach who recruits well, runs a clean program, and has consistently put us in title conversation despite some very volatile momentum swings and bad breaks. And I hope the powers that be are much more level headed than the fanbase because there are only a scant few individuals who could possibly perform above Malzahn in this current landscape and they are few and far between.

Just to break down some of this post.   Why was there a rush to extend his contract prior to the end of the season?   Some say it was because of Arkansas was looking.   A good AD and President would have said we will visit the contract negotiations after the season.   

Besides 2013, 2017 and this year, when has Auburn been in the Top 10 conversation after playing half of the season.   Preseason rankings mean nothing.  

And the position of (If he were in another conference argument) is weak at best.   He is the coach of Auburn and in the SEC because someone thought he was the best man for the job at the time.   If he were at another school, to be completely accurate, you would have to put him on a team like TCU.  Do you really think he would beat Texas and Oklahoma while coaching TCU?   I don’t.   

As far as Lincoln Riley, if you took a poll of fans, I bet it would say they would take Riley over Gus.  

And not sure what you meant by very volatile momentum swings and bad breaks.   If you are referring to K.J. getting injured prior to SEC championship game, he has consistently shown that he plays one guy at Running Back and gives no one else the carries needed to be ready to step in.  I would also add that with his reputation as being a power run first team, where are the 4 and 5 star running backs?

[JMassie11 1,610]

This thread is actually still up?

[The Freak 2,528]

Just now, JMassie11 said:

This thread is actually still up?

Just wait until December.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

6 hours ago, McLoofus said:

How many more years are y'all gonna keep going back to that well?

Can't believe we got a "But November 2017!" to go along with all the "But Tennessees!"s in this thread. 

Ya know, that was only the season before last...