Minneapolis police kill unresisting black man

[alexava 6,973]

10 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Welp. 

 

That’s a shock. My totally non medical mind wonders how he lasted 9 minutes. 

[AUDub 11,148]

25th Amendment. Now. 

 

[AURex 1,996]

21 hours ago, AUDub said:

You want a higher charge, intent is what you have to argue. 

According to the arrest report (I posted analysis above), they had him cuffed, put him in the back seat of the police car, then this cop pulled him out again and killed him. That looks like intent to me. Actually, kneeling on his neck for almost 9 minutes, even after he says he can't breath and is passive, sounds like intent. The prosecutors and medical examiner are doing everything they can to make sure this cop with a history of brutality gets off. Just like when Klobuchar was running the show there.

 

 

[AUDub 11,148]

6 hours ago, AUDub said:

 

AG Steve Marshall responded to Mayor Woodfin's promise to the protesters that the city would be removing the monument. Birmingham will be fined 25,000.

This is a win. Marshall is capitulating. The law requires he do something, and what he is saying is he will do the bare minimum. Down it comes.

And down it comes. ABC is livestreaming. 

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

And down it comes. ABC is livestreaming. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 hours ago, AUDub said:

And down it comes. ABC is livestreaming. 

Statue of Robert E. Lee was taken down in front of Lee High School in Montgomery tonight.  Was done so peacefully by the city I believe.  Should be noted that the school is attended by predominantly Black students.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Statue of Robert E. Lee was taken down in front of Lee High School in Montgomery tonight.  Was done so peacefully by the city I believe.  Should be noted that the school is attended by predominantly Black students.  

And the other big high school in Montgomery is Jeff Davis. Wild.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

And the other big high school in Montgomery is Jeff Davis. Wild.

There's five big public high schools there.  Lee, Lanier, Carver, JD, and Park Crossing.

I know the demographics of the first four are primarily Black.  Not sure about Park Crossing as it opened long after I moved away.

It's sad to say, but when I was younger, JD and Lee were the "White" schools while Carver and Lanier were the "Black" schools.  As time went on, more and more White people started sending kids to private school in Montgomery.  The city's educational system became re-segregated in many ways during the 90s.

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

There's five big public high schools there.  Lee, Lanier, Carver, JD, and Park Crossing.

I know the demographics of the first four are primarily Black.  Not sure about Park Crossing as it opened long after I moved away.

It's sad to say, but when I was younger, JD and Lee were the "White" schools while Carver and Lanier were the "Black" schools.  As time went on, more and more White people started sending kids to private school in Montgomery.  The city's educational system became re-segregated in many ways during the 90s.

Yup. I graduated from one of those private schools in the early 90s. At that time, JD and Lee were still probably 50% white, maybe more. Carver was almost exclusively black. Lanier was somewhere in between, I think. 

St. Jude was the black private school. Their band played a lot of other schools' homecoming games.

You're right, though. The people I knew who never moved away, all their kids go to private schools. My sister in law teaches at one. My nephew is only in public school because he got into the magnet program. And it seems like every community that has sprung up east of town has their own private school now. It's weird explaining to people from other parts of the country that private school in Montgomery isn't what they think of as private school, other than than MA, Trinity and St. James (which wasn't quite on par with the first two back then but looks like a private college now). 

I've heard it's the same in New Orleans. Anyone with any affluence goes to Catholic school.

 

[SocialCircle 570]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:25 AM, cole256 said:

Just look at history.....this country literally wouldn't be here taking that approach. Then on the other hand look at blacks and the native Americans.....damn near eradicated doing that turn the other cheek philosophy. 

It's always easier to tell somebody what they should do after getting kicked in the face opposed to having to feel the pain yourself

A Civil War was fought largely by whites here in this country and it freed mostly black slaves. MLK Jr. led great change through peaceful protests.  The employment percentage and wages for blacks were both indeed increasing in recent years until Covid-19. The trend of all police brutality has actually been trending down....against whites and blacks. There has recently been criminal justice reform.  There is no doubt things aren't perfect and together we can always improve more. However, things overall have been improving.  I think too many have lost sight of these facts. Much work still needs to be done in the area of our too often tiered justice system.  Those with money and power tend to have much better results in our justice system than those without power and money.  

However, the biggest problem facing us is our culture. There is too little regard for life.  There are way too many broken families. There are way too many completely irresponsible people.  How do we heal our culture?  

[DKW 86 7,419]

Alabama Private ALL-WHITE Schools.

Understanding it is really not that hard at all. My high school team goes to competitions all over the South East and Mid West. We competed with teams from Maine to Silicon Valley. I have watched in shear awe how most of these Private Schools across the nation are integrated. But in Alabama, go to competitions and you will see Private Schools with just white kids. When the high school played the private schools in Bham, I was shocked. In Alabama, some did not have one black nor latino kid on their teams from local bases of as much as 400K. In Alabama, the public schools are integrated and some of them are extremely good schools. But go to the Private schools...in Alabama, that means almost every time, All-White, and even some questionable academics.  

[AUDub 11,148]

DA has charged the offending officer with murder in the 2nd degree, and the others with aiding and abetting. 

[bigbird 60,523]

5 minutes ago, AUDub said:

...and the others with aiding and abetting. 

I just don't see how they will get a conviction for that. I could absolutely see Deliberate Indifference or Failure to Intervene but aiding and abetting is a stretch and will be difficult to prove

[homersapien 11,372]

17 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I just don't see how they will get a conviction for that. I could absolutely see Deliberate Indifference or Failure to Intervene but aiding and abetting is a stretch and will be difficult to prove

I looked to me like at least one of the other officers was intervening between the offender and the crowd.   That looks like aiding and abetting to me.

It make me wonder what would have happened if someone in the crowd actually tried to stop it.

[bigbird 60,523]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

I looked to me like at least one of the other officers was intervening between the offender and the crowd.   That looks like aiding and abetting to me.

It make me wonder what would have happened if someone in the crowd actually tried to stop it.

Not trying to be rude, but do you understand what aiding and abetting is?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

3 hours ago, bigbird said:

I just don't see how they will get a conviction for that. I could absolutely see Deliberate Indifference or Failure to Intervene but aiding and abetting is a stretch and will be difficult to prove

I tend to agree.  I hope the wrong charge doesn't let these guys off the hook.

[bigbird 60,523]

6 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

I tend to agree.  I hope the wrong charge doesn't let these guys off the hook.

Exactly!

[Gowebb11 9,321]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

It make me wonder what would have happened if someone in the crowd actually tried to stop it.

Sadly, I think we know what would’ve happened if a black person in the crowd had tried to stop it. It would’ve been forceful and ugly. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, Gowebb11 said:

Sadly, I think we know what would’ve happened if a black person in the crowd had tried to stop it. It would’ve been forceful and ugly. 

Based on what we now know of Chauvin, I think the same would happen if a white person had tried to intervene. 

[SaltyTiger 7,796]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

It make me wonder what would have happened if someone in the crowd actually tried to stop it.

Thought about that several times. Do not know that I could stand seeing that. Results of intervention would have more than likely not been good. Obviously some horribly sick policemen. At the same time I feel like the larger majority of police attempt to do their best. 

According to some Auburn police officers it is standard procedure to put a knee on the back while handcuffing. After being handcuffed and subdued get the person afoot as quickly as possible. 

[bigbird 60,523]

5 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I tend to agree.  I hope the wrong charge doesn't let these guys off the hook.

The other four officers will be charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter.

You can read the charges here

The 2019 Minnesota Statutes for "Liability for crimes of another" defines aiding and abetting as, 

Subdivision 1.Aiding, abetting; liability.

A person is criminally liable for a crime committed by another if the person intentionally aids, advises, hires, counsels, or conspires with or otherwise procures the other to commit the crime.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.05

I think this charge is an overreach based in emotion and not logic. I don't see anyway the other officers should be convicted on this charge. They are guilty, in as much as they all failed in their duty to "protect and serve".  As stated earlier, charges against the other officers such as Deliberate Indifference or Failure to Intervene would be, IMO, the correct charges and would unequivocally end with convictions. I'm not sure if Minnesota has statutes similar to those though. 

 

[Gowebb11 9,321]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

I don't see anyway the other officers should be convicted on this charge

If you were on the jury and these charges stand, would you vote to acquit due to the technicalities you’re pointing out?

[Gowebb11 9,321]

8 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

According to some Auburn police officers it is standard procedure to put a knee on the back while handcuffing.

That’s interesting, and needs to change in my opinion. I would be curious to know if they have that policy in place for all situations and crimes or just some? Is the misdemeanor arrest for shoplifting treated the same as a felony arrest for armed robbery and is that technique applied uniformly whether or not the suspect is resisting? I hope all of these policies get reviewed as a result of this tragedy. 

[bigbird 60,523]

24 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

If you were on the jury and these charges stand, would you vote to acquit due to the technicalities you’re pointing out?

They aren't technicalities. It's the law.

So to your question...if I was on the jury and they were on trial for aiding and abetting, then yes, I would have to vote to acquit. That's not because I think they are innocent but because, IMO, their actions didn't meet the criteria they were being tried for.

I would absolutely vote to convict if they were charged with violating a statute that I thought fit their crime. Unfortunately, to me, based on the Minnesota criminal statutes, the other officers inaction doesn't fulfill the criteria for aiding and abetting.

Just because I see potential issues arising from these charges doesn't mean I think they aren't culpable. They absolutely failed to intervene and protect Floyd. There was a definite crime of omission. 

[Gowebb11 9,321]

45 minutes ago, bigbird said:

They aren't technicalities. It's the law.

So to your question...if I was on the jury and they were on trial for aiding and abetting, then yes, I would have to vote to acquit. That's not because I think they are innocent but because, IMO, their actions didn't meet the criteria they were being tried for.

I would absolutely vote to convict if they were charged with violating a statute that I thought fit their crime. Unfortunately, to me, based on the Minnesota criminal statutes, the other officers inaction doesn't fulfill the criteria for aiding and abetting.

Just because I see potential issues arising from these charges doesn't mean I think they aren't culpable. They absolutely failed to intervene and protect Floyd. There was a definite crime of omission. 

If someone is choking you out, and I’m sitting on your legs am I not aiding? Not quibbling with you, but I think a good lawyer has plenty to work with.