Brandon Strikes Again

[KansasTiger 3,256]

16 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

If the country votes for Trump, the experiment is over and it failed. Had a decent run, though.

Personally, I think it failed already.

[auburnatl1 5,084]

2 hours ago, KansasTiger said:

Perhaps. But I've seen moderate politicians get us into this mess in the first place. It's moderate Republicans I might have the most distrust and hatred for. Neocons who for the last 30 years traded the lives of our soldiers and gave up our freedoms in the name of endless wars, corruption, backroom deals, and money laundering schemes with foreign countries and the military industrial complex. I may not directly support Trump, but I know how his supporters think. The appetite for moderate conservatives was also soured by their inaction on the things that mattered.

But I'm not naive enough to think there's any politician that can get elected at that level that can right this ship. So I'm just enjoying the ride and wherever it ends.

Neocons (I assume you mean Bush type policies) and moderates are not the same.  At all. The point is the massive ideological back and forths are getting us no where. Ie if Trump is elected I guarantee a progressive in 2028 and if Biden is elected, a desantis’ish 2028. Immune system wild swings. No balance. Strategically I believe moderate leadership (that looks at both individual rights with societal considerations) is the only healthy path forward. Compromise vs current scorched  earth.

Ps ironically - The one thing maga and progressives have in common is passion about the misuse of the military and distrust of being the worlds policeman. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by auburnatl1

[KansasTiger 3,256]

2 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Neocons (I assume you mean Bush type policies) and moderates are not the same.  At all. The point is the massive ideological back and forths are getting us no where. Ie if Trump is elected I guarantee a progressive in 2028 and if Biden is elected, a desantis’ish 2028. Immune system wild swings. No balance. Strategically I believe moderate leadership (that looks at both individual rights with societal considerations) is the only healthy path forward. Compromise vs current scorched  earth.

Ps ironically - The one thing maga and progressives have in common is passion about the misuse of the military and distrust of being the worlds policeman. 

Im curious, who was the last moderate President? 

[KansasTiger 3,256]

9 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Neocons (I assume you mean Bush type policies) and moderates are not the same.  At all. The point is the massive ideological back and forths are getting us no where. Ie if Trump is elected I guarantee a progressive in 2028 and if Biden is elected, a desantis’ish 2028. Immune system wild swings. No balance. Strategically I believe moderate leadership (that looks at both individual rights with societal considerations) is the only healthy path forward. Compromise vs current scorched  earth.

Ps ironically - The one thing maga and progressives have in common is passion about the misuse of the military and distrust of being the worlds policeman. 

Also, I'm not sure the rest of the country is so thirsty for moderate politicians as you think. I know I am not. Compromise has done nothing but cede ground to progressive ideology and policies accross the gamut for the last 30+ years. A growing number of conservatives want to try something different, and I agree.

[auburnatl1 5,084]

Just now, KansasTiger said:

Im curious, who was the last moderate President? 

Clinton last 1st and  2nd term. Forgetting the silly stuff - he and newt stuck deals to achieve the greatest economic growth without foreign wars in the past 50 years. You could also go earlier with Truman and Eisenhower (but there was the Cold War.)

[KansasTiger 3,256]

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

Clinton last 1st and  2nd term. Forgetting the silly stuff - he and newt stuck deals to achieve the greatest economic growth without foreign wars in the past 50 years. You could also go earlier with Truman and Eisenhower (but there was the Cold War.)

Clinton would be a conservative today by the left's standards. A pretty hard right conservative.

[TexasTiger 13,048]

29 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

Personally, I think it failed already.

Seems to be, that would seal the deal.

[TexasTiger 13,048]

4 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

Clinton would be a conservative today by the left's standards. A pretty hard right conservative.

Hardly, unless you’re referring to the Twitter left.

[auburnatl1 5,084]

Just now, auburnatl1 said:

Clinton last 1st and  2nd term. Forgetting the silly stuff - he and newt stuck deals to achieve the greatest economic growth without foreign wars in the past 50 years. You could also go earlier with Truman and Eisenhower (but there was the Cold War.)

Democracy is meeting in the middle. Happy wife happy life. She’s not the “enemy”, she thinks different.  It’s why you go along and watch a romantic comedy vs John wick sometimes. If the country is incapable of that maturity and mentality anymore than it’s maga/progressive back and forths forever.  With an unhappy ending.

[KansasTiger 3,256]

Just now, auburnatl1 said:

Democracy is meeting in the middle. Happy wife happy life. She’s not the “enemy”, she thinks different.  It’s why you go along and watch a romantic comedy vs John wick sometimes. If the country is incapable of that maturity and mentality anymore than it’s maga/progressive back and forths forever.  With an unhappy ending.

I had that mentality 15 years ago. Truly. Then I saw what compromise did to the country, with a left that takes a mile every time you give an inch, and I changed my mind. 

[KansasTiger 3,256]

6 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Hardly, unless you’re referring to the Twitter left.

Let's compare a typical left candidate today to these policies:

1. Abortions should be RARE
2. Don't ask, Don't tell, no gay marriage recognition
3. Back Capital Punishment and tough on Crime
4. Refusing to Apologize for offending Jesse Jackson
5. Cut taxes for small business and actually cut deficit spending
6. 1996 Immigration reform that increased amount of immigrants that were deportable

I know he had some left leaning policies, but heck, conservatives get grief for having some of these positions now, much less democrats.

[auburnatl1 5,084]

Just now, KansasTiger said:

I had that mentality 15 years ago. Truly. Then I saw what compromise did to the country, with a left that takes a mile every time you give an inch, and I changed my mind. 

I’m sorry that happened. If thats systemic - we’re screwed.  Democracies can’t work that way. It’s why I disagree with @icanthearyou the most.  It’s not that he’s a European socialist - which I disagree with - it’s that he belittles and attacks anything that doesn’t fit his beliefs. Instantly.  People are going to disagree and debating/arguing is fine. But it cant  constantly devolve to the other side is just an idiot or evil. 

Might be why divorces are up.

[KansasTiger 3,256]

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

I’m sorry that happened. If thats systemic - we’re screwed.  Democracies can’t work that way. It’s why I disagree with @icanthearyou the most.  It’s not that he’s a European socialist - which I disagree with - it’s that he belittles and attacks anything that doesn’t fit his beliefs. Instantly.  People are going to disagree and debating/arguing is fine. But it cant  constantly devolve to the other side is just an idiot or evil. 

Might be why divorces are up.

I definitely don't disagree with your sentiment. I just worry it's not currently achievable in today's climate. Both sides feel pushed and attacked constantly, and that if they let off the gas for an instant they'll be run over. We have to diffuse that before we can find that middle ground again. And I don't think either side is doing a good job of that. 

I've argued before, my personal values have not changed in the last 20 years. Yet I blinked and somehow I went from being a right leaning moderate myself to a hard right extremist. The middle has moved only in one direction, and that doesn't happen with just meeting in the middle and compromising unless one side is trying to run over the other.

[auburnatl1 5,084]

1 minute ago, KansasTiger said:

I definitely don't disagree with your sentiment. I just worry it's not currently achievable in today's climate. Both sides feel pushed and attacked constantly, and that if they let off the gas for an instant they'll be run over. We have to diffuse that before we can find that middle ground again. And I don't think either side is doing a good job of that. 

I've argued before, my personal values have not changed in the last 20 years. Yet I blinked and somehow I went from being a right leaning moderate myself to a hard right extremist. The middle has moved only in one direction, and that doesn't happen with just meeting in the middle and compromising unless one side is trying to run over the other.

I understand. The problem is both parties are producing  mtg/aoc  militants. Low talent individuals who don’t think and don’t try to understand the other sides pov.

To your point. The issue is trust.  And I’m not bright enough to know how to reinvigorate it but I am looking for a person who speaks of country before party.

Btw I actually know manchin. He’s not amazing but what does intrigue me is that he’s survived this long in the reddest state as a democrat. 

[KansasTiger 3,256]

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

I understand. The problem is both parties are producing  mtg/aoc  militants. Low talent individuals who don’t think and don’t try to understand the other sides pov.

To your point. The issue is trust.  And I’m not bright enough to know how to reinvigorate it but I am looking for a person who speaks of country before party.

Btw I actually know manchin. He’s not amazing but what does intrigue me is that he’s survived this long in the reddest state as a democrat. 

I get it. I mean, you could look at Jon Tester in Montana, too. And here in Kansas, we have a two term democratic governor. That one is less interesting to me because I get to see it up close and I know how she pulls it off. But still, there's a few.

[auburnatl1 5,084]

11 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

I get it. I mean, you could look at Jon Tester in Montana, too. And here in Kansas, we have a two term democratic governor. That one is less interesting to me because I get to see it up close and I know how she pulls it off. But still, there's a few.

We agree. I’ve seen Tester speak. He’s impressive - one of few guys both cnn and Fox interview.

[KansasTiger 3,256]

2 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

We agree. I’ve seen Tester speak. He’s impressive - one of few guys both cnn and Fox interview.

I'm not sure he survives this round in Montana, but we'll see.

[auburnatl1 5,084]

15 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

I'm not sure he survives this round in Montana, but we'll see.

Which is the party problem. If you can’t give your base raw meat, you won’t survive to the general.

[TexasTiger 13,048]

Republicans like to act like Nancy Pelosi is an ideologue. She’s a pragmatic leader and a damn good one. She represents a liberal place and reflects them in her personal policy positions, but not in her leadership. She protected her more moderate members the best she could and focused on what mattered:

[TexasTiger 13,048]

1 hour ago, KansasTiger said:

Let's compare a typical left candidate today to these policies:

1. Abortions should be RARE
2. Don't ask, Don't tell, no gay marriage recognition
3. Back Capital Punishment and tough on Crime
4. Refusing to Apologize for offending Jesse Jackson
5. Cut taxes for small business and actually cut deficit spending
6. 1996 Immigration reform that increased amount of immigrants that were deportable

I know he had some left leaning policies, but heck, conservatives get grief for having some of these positions now, much less democrats.

All of those were the type of compromised positions being discussed.

[KansasTiger 3,256]

7 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

All of those were the type of compromised positions being discussed.

That's part of my argument. Where did compromise get the right on these issues? It got us major increase in abortions and abortion on demand in many places, no accountability on crime, no criticism allowed of things like BLM, out of control spending, and ridiculous immigration policies.

So...less compromise is better.

[I_M4_AU 8,010]

7 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

That's part of my argument. Where did compromise get the right on these issues? It got us major increase in abortions and abortion on demand in many places, no accountability on crime, no criticism allowed of things like BLM, out of control spending, and ridiculous immigration policies.

So...less compromise is better.

Conservatives have had enough of slowly losing arguments and are taking a stand.  Brandon has gone full tilt left with his EOs that are hurting America.  It’s long past time to take a stand, but here we are.  Unfortunately Trump is the leading Republican candidate, but hopefully most of America can see Brandon is not good for America.

[CoffeeTiger 5,181]

 

1 hour ago, auburnatl1 said:

 

Btw I actually know manchin. He’s not amazing but what does intrigue me is that he’s survived this long in the reddest state as a democrat. 

 

WV hasn't been so deeply red for too long. Has kind of slowly drifted that way since 2000 when it was a blue/purple state, and WV had also been electing Democrat governors right along side Manchin's senate career, so it's not like he was the only Democrat politician that west Virginians were electing during this time period.. Manchin probably survived by already having an existing  political career in West Virginia and by smart campaigning. 

I don't think Manchin was doing anything overly special or magical to stay in office. He was just the old guard that the states older and former Dem voters liked and were familiar with, and that allowed him to stay around through his states transition into a Republican stronghold. 

Before Manchin declared he wasn't running in 2024 for re-election, the polls were looking pretty bad for him. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by CoffeeTiger

[TexasTiger 13,048]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Conservatives have had enough of slowly losing arguments and are taking a stand.  Brandon has gone full tilt left with his EOs that are hurting America.  It’s long past time to take a stand, but here we are.  Unfortunately Trump is the leading Republican candidate, but hopefully most of America can see Brandon is not good for America.

Keep wondering what Republicans are gonna do when they go to the polls and no one named “Brandon” is on the ballot.

[CoffeeTiger 5,181]

18 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Conservatives have had enough of slowly losing arguments and are taking a stand.  

 

uh huh.....And if that doesn't work, Conservative might next want to try having better ideas and arguments that aren't so unpopular with a majority of Americans