Pettway Out for Peach Bowl

[DAG 33,982]

6 hours ago, Mikey said:

How many do you think is necessary? We went into this season with the SEC's leading rusher returning, plus a fine versatile back in K. Johnson. Behind those two were a normal group of youngsters. What would you have done differently? (No 20-20 hindsight allowed)

I think most schools should have 3 RBs readily available at any time. No questions asked. Doesn't mean all three have to be stars, but they need to be ready to go. We had two, but clearly, both got hurt. 

[Tiger 8,823]

28 minutes ago, DAG said:

I think most schools should have 3 RBs readily available at any time. No questions asked. Doesn't mean all three have to be stars, but they need to be ready to go. We had two, but clearly, both got hurt. 

I feel like Gus would've given up in the 2002 Iron Bowl with Caddy and Ronnie out. But Tubs rolled with what he had and it was a big upset win for AU that day with no FB either. There seems to be too many games in Gus' tenure where he feels we have no chance at all and basically throws the game away before it even started. And honestly just 1 of those games is too many. The man has accumulated nationally ranked top 10 talent and feels like he has a mid-major roster behind his starters or something...I don't get it

[DAG 33,982]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I feel like Gus would've given up in the 2002 Iron Bowl with Caddy and Ronnie out. But Tubs rolled with what he had and it was a big upset win for AU that day with no FB either. There seems to be too many games in Gus' tenure where he feels we have no chance at all and basically throws the game away before it even started. And honestly just 1 of those games is too many. The man has accumulated nationally ranked top 10 talent and feels like he has a mid-major roster behind his starters or something...I don't get it

Well he won’t have any choice if KJ hasn’t healed up by January 1st either...we will see

[Mikey 16,583]

8 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Especially after last season- it was just last season!- it's breathtakingly ignorant and naive to suggest that 2 RBs are enough to count on for a full season. And I'm being very kind with the words "ignorant" and "naive". It's as "ignorant" and "naive" as thinking that the key to beating Clemson or keeping a 20 point lead on the road is to avoid dangerous, risky things like first downs and points. 

We didn't have two, we had five. I'll repeat, how many do you think is necessary? Do you give five RB's equal reps in practice? If the coaching staff thinks #3, 4 and 5 can't perform adequately do you put them in anyway and offer up prayers? Can you predict in August that the top two will be out for various reasons? What's your solution to five RB's not being enough?

[Mikey 16,583]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

I feel like Gus would've given up in the 2002 Iron Bowl with Caddy and Ronnie out. But Tubs rolled with what he had and it was a big upset win for AU that day with no FB either. There seems to be too many games in Gus' tenure where he feels we have no chance at all and basically throws the game away before it even started. And honestly just 1 of those games is too many. The man has accumulated nationally ranked top 10 talent and feels like he has a mid-major roster behind his starters or something...I don't get it

He didn't give up in the 2013 UGA and UAT games. What makes you think he'd have given up in 2002?

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 hours ago, Mikey said:

We didn't have two, we had five. I'll repeat, how many do you think is necessary? Do you give five RB's equal reps in practice? If the coaching staff thinks #3, 4 and 5 can't perform adequately do you put them in anyway and offer up prayers? Can you predict in August that the top two will be out for various reasons? What's your solution to five RB's not being enough?

Except the problem wasn't that 5 wasn't enough. The problem was that we had 5 and only 2 were counted upon to do anything important. 

[lala 327]

On 12/13/2017 at 5:23 PM, corchjay said:

I mentioned in another thread that I think Malik is a little over weight.  Some guys can carry extra weight and some can't.  I think he's probably 10-15 pounds to heavy.  Let him get down to 210-215 and you'll see him get some of his burst back.  He was a very talented back in high school not that it translates always to D1 football but he's a better back then he's shown.  He still has a chance to be a very good back.  These are just my opinions but I think he was trying to be the 2nd big back, he and Bubba, and let KMart and Barrett be the change of pace backs with KJ mixed in as a do it all but Malik is just to heavy to be the same back he was prior.  

This isn't just a Malik Miller issue though there are several young players that need to change their bodies going into next year if they want to be major contributors.  I might make a topic about it on one of these slow football days

Corch, would like to see your thoughts on others.  At this point I do not see good things for Malik, hope I am wrong but just my opinion from what I have witnessed.  I know people wanted him to play more but he shouldn’t have been in any rotation.   

[corchjay 5,311]

47 minutes ago, lala said:

Corch, would like to see your thoughts on others.  At this point I do not see good things for Malik, hope I am wrong but just my opinion from what I have witnessed.  I know people wanted him to play more but he shouldn’t have been in any rotation.   

Who else would you like to have my insight on?  Fire away...    

[Tiger 8,823]

4 hours ago, Mikey said:

He didn't give up in the 2013 UGA and UAT games. What makes you think he'd have given up in 2002?

There are literally zero parallels between 2002 Iron Bowl and 2013 UGA/Bama games

[DAG 33,982]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

There are literally zero parallels between 2002 Iron Bowl and 2013 UGA/Bama games

Yeah talk about a reeaaaaaachhhhh

[Mikey 16,583]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

There are literally zero parallels between 2002 Iron Bowl and 2013 UGA/Bama games

You're the one that said Gus would give up. I just gave you two quick instances when he didn't give up. You, on the other hand, cannot possibly have any idea of what Gus would or wouldn't have done in 2002.

[Mikey 16,583]

30 minutes ago, DAG said:

Yeah talk about a reeaaaaaachhhhh

The reach was claiming Gus would have given up in 2002 when it's not possible to know what Gus might have done in 2002.

[DAG 33,982]

58 minutes ago, Mikey said:

The reach was claiming Gus would have given up in 2002 when it's not possible to know what Gus might have done in 2002.

This is true. We don’t know. It is a clear hypothetical, but I think the point he was making was that CGM probably wouldn’t have had a plan for the unexpected in 2002. There were no curveballs in 2013, therefore , that was an apples to oranges comparison. Adversity? Sure but we had all the horses in the stable to push through . What if this isn’t the case? Again, my assumption of Tiger’s point.

[Tiger 8,823]

10 hours ago, DAG said:

This is true. We don’t know. It is a clear hypothetical, but I think the point he was making was that CGM probably wouldn’t have had a plan for the unexpected in 2002. There were no curveballs in 2013, therefore , that was an apples to oranges comparison. Adversity? Sure but we had all the horses in the stable to push through . What if this isn’t the case? Again, my assumption of Tiger’s point.

Thank you. We are on the same page. 

[EclecticTiger 146]

On 12/14/2017 at 1:09 PM, Tiger said:

The way I saw KP decleat defenders this year as a pass blocker, and how my Panthers suck at pass blocking I'd be all in on KP to Carolina. I'm just a novice fan so I have no idea how he projects at the next level at RB but Mccaffery and KP's contrasting styles could be pretty solid. Stewart is only going to get worse and CAP, as much as I love him, can barely get on the active gameday squad and there are no power runners on the team outside of Stew and CAP. As mentioned before by others he could also try to fit into the Tolbert role.

What about Alex Armah?

[Gowebb11 9,320]

21 hours ago, lala said:

Corch, would like to see your thoughts on others.  At this point I do not see good things for Malik, hope I am wrong but just my opinion from what I have witnessed.  I know people wanted him to play more but he shouldn’t have been in any rotation.   

Not @corchjay but a RB has to get some carries under his belt and allowed to get into a rhythm to fairly judge them. I remember not being impressed at all with P Barber his first few carries as a freshman. Same for Kerryon. He was widely criticized as a freshman on message boards for being too slow and not being decisive enough. I believe Malik can be a really good one but needs game reps. 

[Tiger 8,823]

42 minutes ago, EclecticTiger said:

What about Alex Armah?

He's been pretty solid that's for sure

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,666]

23 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

Not @corchjay but a RB has to get some carries under his belt and allowed to get into a rhythm to fairly judge them. I remember not being impressed at all with P Barber his first few carries as a freshman. Same for Kerryon. He was widely criticized as a freshman on message boards for being too slow and not being decisive enough. I believe Malik can be a really good one but needs game reps. 

yeah being used as literally a plan C/D his entire career here, and not only that, but being the short yard back, there's not much you can show. I wont hold the last drive of that atrocity a couple weeks ago against him, that offense and every player on it was done playing a long time before hand 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Here's the thing I don't get. Why is it that so many people think the ability of a player to compete lies solely at the feet of coaches? Have any of you throwing our depth issues at Gus's feet even considered that maybe the players who aren't ready to carry a significant load just aren't picking up what they are being taught fast enough? Not every player is destined for greatness. And where did the concept that game reps magically make a player better come from? Finally, the craziest thing I read of all, do some of you really think it was a coaching failure that a true freshman wasn't ready to step in when our seasoned backs went down?

If you look at our roster, backs 3-5 had a similar number of carries as every other team's backs 3-5. Next year, either Miller or Barret will step up (my money is on Barrett). Our issue with running backs is injury prevention, not roster management... and no... the main injuries suffered had nothing to do with too many carries.

Just for kicks, tell me who the #2 back who got significant carries behind Tate was? How about Irons? Davis? Johnson? Bostic? Heck, in 2003, Cadillac had nearly 3 times as many carries as Ronnie. For the past 30 years, Auburn has always had a back that carries over 200 times, supported by a number of backs that usually carry less than 100 times each, often a lot less.

[Gowebb11 9,320]

4 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

If you look at our roster, backs 3-5 had a similar number of carries as every other team's backs 3-5. Next year, either Miller or Barret will step up (my money is on Barrett). Our issue with running backs is injury prevention, not roster management... and no... the main injuries suffered had nothing to do with too many carries.

 

I agree with this whole post. I posted a list of carries by top college RBs a few days proving the point. So I’m not upset about Gus overworking a RB. I do think it was clear for all to see that KJ was far short of 100% in the SECCG. After the 1st quarter, I feel like Gus had 2 choices: keep running an indeffective KJ out there because he’s a veteran, or put the ball in the hands of the backups and hope they’re ready for the moment. He chose the former and UGA changed their defense because they didn’t have to respect the run. Gus took major steps forward this season in so many ways. His next step is to learn to trust younger players when you have to.  

Regarding Pettway,  I hate that he was injured this year. But if reports are true that he is now missing time due to bad choices, that is disappointing and an upperclassman should know better. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Here's the thing I don't get. Why is it that so many people think the ability of a player to compete lies solely at the feet of coaches?

Nobody has said it lies solely at the feet of the coaches. That's more "love him or hate him" hyperbole from you. 

Quote

Not every player is destined for greatness.

5 guys. Only 2 of them are even adequate? Coaching, recruiting, enabling players to succeed. Our coaches have failed 2 seasons in a row at some combination of these. 

Quote

And where did the concept that game reps magically make a player better come from?

Back to the "experience doesn't matter" thing. I really don't understand how that became such a popular stance this season. 

Quote

Finally, the craziest thing I read of all, do some of you really think it was a coaching failure that a true freshman wasn't ready to step in when our seasoned backs went down?

Yup. Pettway went down pretty early. We should've had someone ready to go by December. 

Quote

If you look at our roster, backs 3-5 had a similar number of carries as every other team's backs 3-5.

That's the whole problem, Lion. Our backups playing behind injured guys had a similar number of carries to backups playing behind healthy guys.

Quote

Our issue with running backs is injury prevention, not roster management... 

We have issues with both. 

Quote

For the past 30 years, Auburn has always had a back that carries over 200 times, supported by a number of backs that usually carry less than 100 times each, often a lot less.

And last year, we had our 2 top guys go down with injury and it contributed to us losing an extremely important game in November (Gus also played a clearly injured, incapable QB in that game). And right about the same time this year, it happened again. Meanwhile, each of our main rivals had a 3rd RB who was a meaningful contributor throughout the season, and each of them are in the playoffs and we are notdue largely in part to not having a 3rd RB who could or was allowed to contribute. 

Recruiting, development, enabling kids to succeed. We're failing somewhere. 

 

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

58 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Nobody has said it lies solely at the feet of the coaches. That's more "love him or hate him" hyperbole from you. 

Several people have said it. I can't count the number of times that I've read the equivalent of "Gus isn't getting them ready to play".

58 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

5 guys. Only 2 of them are even adequate? Coaching, recruiting, enabling players to succeed. Our coaches have failed 2 seasons in a row at some combination of these. 

I don't know where you are getting the "only two of them are adequate". Our 3 reserve backs combined for 115 carries and 15 receptions.  That's 20 more carries and 6 more receptions than Ronnie Brown had in 2003. It's not like they are sitting on the bench.

Martin is Gus's classic "change of pace" back like O-Mac and Grant, etc. He only had 68 carries, but a lot of that is because he gave up 27 to Stove. Take those back from Stove and he has the equivalent of a #2 back's carries in a standard Auburn offense.

As for Kerryon and Kam... both are game changers. Both were the #1 back in the SEC when they were healthy. That's not easy to replace.

58 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Back to the "experience doesn't matter" thing. I really don't understand how that became such a popular stance this season.

Experience does matter, but where I come from, you earn playing time on the practice field. If you can't do what is asked in practice, you don't play.

58 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

That's the whole problem, Lion. Our backups playing behind injured guys had a similar number of carries to backups playing behind healthy guys.

My argument is that our back-ups are freshmen and sophomores and are likely as far along in their seasoning as the back-ups on other teams, thus the number of carries they are getting. It's not like we landed the top running backs in the country, the past several years. Barrett has serious promise, as does Asa. I expect to see both play more, earlier, than their predecessors. I fully expect Barrett to jump Miller and Asa may jump both. I also think Worm could jump Martin in 2019, if not before the end of 2018.

58 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Meanwhile, each of our main rivals had a 3rd RB who was a meaningful contributor throughout the season, and each of them are in the playoffs and we are notdue largely in part to not having a 3rd RB who could or was allowed to contribute. 

Are you saying Martin didn't meaningfully contribute? I recall him spelling Kerryon and picking up some solid, middle of the game, yardage, as well as a couple of touchdowns. Miller was our mop-up duty back.

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

29 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Are you saying Martin didn't meaningfully contribute? I recall him spelling Kerryon and picking up some solid, middle of the game, yardage, as well as a couple of touchdowns. 

4 carries in the SECCG. 4.

Edit: And to save you the trouble, our "mop up" back had 2, and the freshman had 0. 6 total carries from 3 guys in a championship game when our starter wasn't 100%. Pettway got hurt in mid-September. The coaching staff mismanaged the running back position this season. 

[Tiger 8,823]

Deleted my post and changing to:

 

if you don't think Gus mismanaged the RB rotation, and has for a few years now, you're just not using your eyes. No way one RB should be getting all the carries from the RB spot. 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

I have no problem with how the coaches handled the RB situation up until the SECCG. KJ should have NEVER played a down. He was at less than 50%, looked gimpy, and he fumbled (which he rarely does). I know he was the rock to this team but we had to come up with an alternative for that game. We knew going into the game he was not going to be able to "bring it". 

Honestly the whole entire game plan in the SECCG was mind boggling considering that the UGA game and AL game a few weeks earlier had the best game plans I have seen from AU in years. 

But I digress. This topic is about Pettway and he is a mystery for sure. What an odd situation - is he still hurt hurt, wants to go pro, or some other thing? Looks like he just wants out? Just odd.