I want Mario Cristobal

[McLoofus 35,182]

Gus had a 1st round draft pick at QB for 2 years, too. Turned him into a 4th rounder, though.

Funny how suddenly strength of schedule and such matters. Just a minute ago, all-time record was the only thing that mattered, without any regard for the historical strength of the program, the condition of the program when the given coach took over, etc.

Hope nobody stumbled into this conversation without their waders on.

 

[TitanTiger 20,499]

5 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Fleck has faced the weakest schedule imaginable, thus his team's low ranking in spite of their record. Then there's a question of why on earth he would take the AU job.

Cristobal has faced a similar schedule to Fleck, with the exception of losing to AU. He's had an NFL 1st round draft pick at QB for the past two years. Lets see what he does without that resource.

In other words, you wish to hold any potential Auburn coach to a standard that we've never held anyone to prior.  Not Dye, not Tuberville, not anyone.  Circumstances or what program they coached at don't matter.  Having a losing record at FIU is no different than a losing record at Ohio State I suppose.

Given what I'm surmising from your criteria, I'm struggling to come up with almost any coach that you would accept as a good replacement for Gus.  I mean, at least ones who are gettable.  We aren't floating theories about guys like Bill Belichick, Dabo Swinney, or Nick Saban here after all.  Of the available coaches, and reading your arguments against various guys mentioned, I'm hard pressed to identify one that you'd be willing to go with over Gustav.

[Mikey 16,633]

6 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Yes, let's waste more time while our regional recruiting foes get stronger and stronger. 

If you're scared, just say you're scared. 

Now the gripe is recruiting? Nobody's scared, just reluctant to do something that ends up being stupid. Three years from now you want to look back and say that firing Malzahn was "Just another case of Auburn being Auburn"?

[selias 2,398]

2 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Now the gripe is recruiting? Nobody's scared, just reluctant to do something that ends up being stupid. Three years from now you want to look back and say that firing Malzahn was "Just another case of Auburn being Auburn"?

Hiring Gus as the HC was a case of JABA. Without a flash in the pan talent at QB, he's an average to below average FBS P5 HC

[Mikey 16,633]

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm hard pressed to identify one that you'd be willing to go with over Gustav.

The whiners are equally hard pressed to identify one that has a realistic chance of being better and might accept the AU job.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Just now, Mikey said:

The whiners are equally hard pressed to identify one that has a realistic chance of being better and might accept the AU job.

No, we have, you just make stupid rebuttals about them.

But regardless, don't dodge.  Others have put forth reasonable arguments as to why they believe this or that candidate would be better.  Thus far all you can do is say who you think won't be good.  Give us an example of someone we can realistically get that you think would meet the criteria of being a better option than Gus.

[leglessdan 1,934]

22 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Fleck has faced the weakest schedule imaginable, thus his team's low ranking in spite of their record. Then there's a question of why on earth he would take the AU job.

Cristobal has faced a similar schedule to Fleck, with the exception of losing to AU. He's had an NFL 1st round draft pick at QB for the past two years. Lets see what he does without that resource.

Faced weaker schedule with far weaker talent than Auburn. And let's not kid ourselves,  we beat Oregon on a desperation pass with seconds to play and don't forget Auburn is one of , if not the best Defense in the country. Everywhere Fleck has gone there has been consistent improvement across the board. The way you throw around schedule strength as an argument makes it sound like is a MAC team facing SEC teams. Auburn is talented enough to beat the tough teams,  yet we can never get a consistent product onto the field. There's always a piece of the puzzle missing and our Offensive staff doesn't seem to know or care to adjust and develop the offense around the talent we do have. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

12 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Now the gripe is recruiting? Nobody's scared, just reluctant to do something that ends up being stupid. Three years from now you want to look back and say that firing Malzahn was "Just another case of Auburn being Auburn"?

There are myriad reasons that Gus is not a great HC and yes, recruiting for need is one of the reasons he is a poor program developer.  Worst case scenario we're sitting at 8-5 in 3 years, which most any mid-level HC can get to at Auburn.

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, selias said:

Hiring Gus as the HC was a case of JABA. Without a flash in the pan talent at QB, he's an average to below average FBS P5 HC

Isn't it funny to watch somebody breathlessly, desperately, obnoxiously try to make a case for keeping a guy who had all of 1 year of head coaching experience...

...at a small time program...

...that was in fantastic shape when he got there...

...to include returning the star QB who had already been mentored by a far superior offensive mind...

 

...but then try to say that a guy who currently has a P5 program ranked 6th in the country isn't qualified?

 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

Just now, McLoofus said:

Isn't it funny to watch somebody breathlessly, desperately, obnoxiously try to make a case for keeping a guy who had all of 1 year of head coaching experience...

...at a small time program...

...that was in fantastic shape when he got there...

...to include returning the star QB who had already been mentored by a far superior offensive mind...

 

...but then try to say that a guy who currently has a P5 program ranked 6th in the country isn't qualified?

 

 

[Mikey 16,633]

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

No, we have, you just make stupid rebuttals about them.

But regardless, don't dodge.  Others have put forth reasonable arguments as to why they believe this or that candidate would be better.  Thus far all you can do is say who you think won't be good.  Give us an example of someone we can realistically get that you think would meet the criteria of being a better option than Gus.

There aren't many out there. If, say, Gus resigned and I was the AD I'd call Bob Stoops and probably get laughed off the phone. Then it would be time to make a list of ten or so names and conduct interviews. I'd make a hire, probably one from among the many names that have been mentioned here over the past few years. That doesn't mean that I think the new guy would do better than Gus, I'd just have picked the guy who seemed likely to do the best under the circumstances.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

1 minute ago, Mikey said:

There aren't many out there. If, say, Gus resigned and I was the AD I'd call Bob Stoops and probably get laughed off the phone. Then it would be time to make a list of ten or so names and conduct interviews. I'd make a hire, probably one from among the many names that have been mentioned here over the past few years. That doesn't mean that I think the new guy would do better than Gus, I'd just have picked the guy who seemed likely to do the best under the circumstances.

Bob's going to FSU and will be yet another threat we'll face on the recruiting trail. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Bob's going to FSU and will be yet another threat we'll face on the recruiting trail. 

And Stephen Leath should never have to pay for his own drinks in Tallahassee. 

[I_M4_AU 7,862]

11 minutes ago, Mikey said:

There aren't many out there. If, say, Gus resigned and I was the AD I'd call Bob Stoops and probably get laughed off the phone. Then it would be time to make a list of ten or so names and conduct interviews. I'd make a hire, probably one from among the many names that have been mentioned here over the past few years. That doesn't mean that I think the new guy would do better than Gus, I'd just have picked the guy who seemed likely to do the best under the circumstances.

After reading your rebuttals to the *fire Gus* crowd, it seems you have a very low opinion of Auburn as you believe a lot of the candidates would not even entertain the prospect of becoming the HC at Auburn.  Is this true?

[TitanTiger 20,499]

17 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

There are myriad reasons that Gus is not a great HC and yes, recruiting for need is one of the reasons he is a poor program developer.  Worst case scenario we're sitting at 8-5 in 3 years, which most any mid-level HC can get to at Auburn.

Just to clarify this point on recruiting though, the issue is not that we don't have highly ranked classes.  We do.  The aggregate look is a good one.  The problem is recruiting with a eye toward roster management.  On the defensive side, Steele and Co. have their s*** together.  They recruit for every position each class.  They might emphasize one position over another class to class based on the current roster, but they don't have complete whiffs at any position, which is why we can lose guys and always seem to have good talented dudes ready to go the following year on that side of the ball.

The offense on the other hand, which Gus has a far bigger hand in, has been a mess.  We'll sign 4, 5, or 6 highly rated WRs, but whiff on good offensive linemen (tackles especially).  Or we have a couple of years where we don't sign any SEC caliber RBs or QBs.  Thus we end up with a year like this with 5 senior linemen cobbled from 3-stars and grad transfers that can't consistently even be SEC average in terms of effectiveness.  Or we lose one good RB to injury and the offense goes to s*** because there's no one worth a damn backing him up.  The RB thing is rounding into shape.  The OL thing is still up in the air.

Part of the problem is simply not planning properly on when to emphasize a particular position over another so you have guys in the pipeline as the current guys go pro or graduate.  But also, there's been a tendency to put all our eggs in a few baskets - pinning all our hopes on some 5-stars that we have to beat out Bama, UGA, Ohio State, Clemson, LSU or whoever on while not really paying attention to that next tier down of talented 4-stars who we could much more easily get.  By the time we realize we aren't going to win the battles on the 5-stars, the 4-stars feel unwanted by us and have either committed elsewhere or feel more comfortable with other schools and we can't swoop in and steal them at the last minute.  So we end up signing a low rated 4-star, a 3-star project, a DL we think we can convert to OL, or having to troll the JUCO and grad transfers to just fill in the gaps.

[leglessdan 1,934]

31 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Now the gripe is recruiting? Nobody's scared, just reluctant to do something that ends up being stupid. Three years from now you want to look back and say that firing Malzahn was "Just another case of Auburn being Auburn"?

🤣🤣🤣🤣Hiring Gus was JABA.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Just to clarify this point on recruiting though, the issue is not that we don't have highly ranked classes.  We do.  The aggregate look is a good one.  The problem is recruiting with a eye toward roster management.  On the defensive side, Steele and Co. have their s*** together.  They recruit for every position each class.  They might emphasize one position over another class to class based on the current roster, but they don't have complete whiffs at any position, which is why we can lose guys and always seem to have good talented dudes ready to go the following year on that side of the ball.

The offense on the other hand, which Gus has a far bigger hand in, has been a mess.  We'll sign 5 or 6 highly rated WRs, but whiff on good offensive linemen (tackles especially).  Or we have a couple of years where we don't sign any SEC caliber RBs or QBs.  Thus we end up with a year like this with 5 senior linemen cobbled from 3-stars and grad transfers that can't consistently even be SEC average in terms of effectiveness.  Or we lose one good RB to injury and the offense goes to s*** because there's no one worth a damn backing him up.  The RB thing is rounding into shape.  The OL thing is still up in the air.

Part of the problem is simply not planning properly on when to emphasize a particular position over another so you have guys in the pipeline as the current guys go pro or graduate.  But also, there's been a tendency to put all our eggs in a few baskets - pinning all our hopes on some 5-stars that we have to beat out Bama, UGA, Ohio State, Clemson, LSU or whoever on while not really paying attention to that next tier down of talented 4-stars who we could much more easily get.  By the time we realize we aren't going to win the battles on the 5-stars, the 4-stars feel unwanted by us and have either committed elsewhere or feel more comfortable with other schools and we can't swoop in and steal them at the last minute.  So we end up signing a low rated 4-star, a 3-star project, a DL we think we can convert to OL, or having to troll the JUCO and grad transfers to just fill in the gaps.

Well put.  That's been my contention for years now.  If you were paying attention to recruiting you saw this OL, RB, and QB situation coming for years.

[ToraGirl 5,498]

10 hours ago, Mikey said:

The schtick I'm providing isn't nearly as worn out as the whining of the posters who want change without having any reasonable assurance that change will result in improvement. When they shut up, I'll shut up.

Oh,  goodness. Needing the last word at our ages? Best of success, Mikey. 

[ToraGirl 5,498]

27 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

 

Been listening to Steely all week. Love, love, love!

[keesler 5,924]

38 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Now the gripe is recruiting? Nobody's scared, just reluctant to do something that ends up being stupid. Three years from now you want to look back and say that firing Malzahn was "Just another case of Auburn being Auburn"?

Reluctant, apprehensive, uneasy, concerned, troubled, nervous, uneasy, anxious are exactly what CGM looks like on a sideline.

He's a reluctant coach, an uneasy and nervous OC and lets be honest here - some of his decisions have looked stupid.

[Leftfield 2,616]

Bear with me on this.

As has been mentioned, I don’t think there’s a person on this board that doubts Gus is committed to making the team the best it can be. He is a good man, recruits (mostly) quality-character players, and genuinely cares about them.

The way I see it, there is no conscious decision on Gus’ part to be bull-headed and refuse to evolve his offense. Gus reminds me of the stereotyped engineer (I’ve worked with some over the years): They design something on paper and absolutely cannot understand when it doesn’t work in the real world. The failure could be because the design may require specific components that aren’t available or obtainable for whatever reason, so they have to make-do with what they can get, thinking it will be “good enough” or can be made to adapt. The failure could come from ignoring the limitations they have in implementing/building a design. It could be due to lack of anticipation of the severity of conditions in which the design will have to work, which they then dismiss as outliers. Whatever the reason, these engineers are so sure their design is correct that they will expect the rest of the company, or in some cases even their customers, to do what is necessary to get the conditions to match the design, rather than adapt the design to the conditions.

I really don’t believe the above trait is due to a large ego. Quite the contrary. As an engineer myself, lack of data is anathema to me. All I want is to find the solution to a problem, and when I fail, it’s bruising to my self-esteem. It’s taken me a long time to be more comfortable taking risks when I don’t have all the data, instead of staying in the comfort zone of what I know. Many engineers can never get past that, which is why by-and-large they aren’t well-suited for executive roles.

We’ve seen rare occasions where Gus is capable of adapting, and the promise of that is what has been so maddening. Unfortunately those occasions were when his back was against the wall and he was forced out of his comfort zone, which is a horrible way to run a consistent program. Good coaches have the drive to force themselves to adapt. If a head coach has to have that pressure applied externally, it’s unsustainable.

This is all to say that, while I believe Gus is capable of evolving, we’re well past the point we can continue to wait. We are stagnating and that could be crippling to the health of the program. For those who say there are no candidates with a resume superior to Gus, you have to realize we’ll never have all the necessary data to make a sure-thing hire. If we don’t like where we are, we have to step out of our comfort zone to achieve something better.

And now that I’ve completely trashed my own profession, I’ll hang up and listen.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

1 hour ago, keesler said:

Reluctant, apprehensive, uneasy, concerned, troubled, nervous, uneasy, anxious are exactly what CGM looks like on a sideline.

He's a reluctant coach, an uneasy and nervous OC and lets be honest here - some of his decisions have looked stupid.

Some... that's very generous of you. 

[ToraGirl 5,498]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

Bear with me on this.

As has been mentioned, I don’t think there’s a person on this board that doubts Gus is committed to making the team the best it can be. He is a good man, recruits (mostly) quality-character players, and genuinely cares about them.

The way I see it, there is no conscious decision on Gus’ part to be bull-headed and refuse to evolve his offense. Gus reminds me of the stereotyped engineer (I’ve worked with some over the years): They design something on paper and absolutely cannot understand when it doesn’t work in the real world. The failure could be because the design may require specific components that aren’t available or obtainable for whatever reason, so they have to make-do with what they can get, thinking it will be “good enough” or can be made to adapt. The failure could come from ignoring the limitations they have in implementing/building a design. It could be due to lack of anticipation of the severity of conditions in which the design will have to work, which they then dismiss as outliers. Whatever the reason, these engineers are so sure their design is correct that they will expect the rest of the company, or in some cases even their customers, to do what is necessary to get the conditions to match the design, rather than adapt the design to the conditions.

I really don’t believe the above trait is due to a large ego. Quite the contrary. As an engineer myself, lack of data is anathema to me. All I want is to find the solution to a problem, and when I fail, it’s bruising to my self-esteem. It’s taken me a long time to be more comfortable taking risks when I don’t have all the data, instead of staying in the comfort zone of what I know. Many engineers can never get past that, which is why by-and-large they aren’t well-suited for executive roles.

We’ve seen rare occasions where Gus is capable of adapting, and the promise of that is what has been so maddening. Unfortunately those occasions were when his back was against the wall and he was forced out of his comfort zone, which is a horrible way to run a consistent program. Good coaches have the drive to force themselves to adapt. If a head coach has to have that pressure applied externally, it’s unsustainable.

This is all to say that, while I believe Gus is capable of evolving, we’re well past the point we can continue to wait. We are stagnating and that could be crippling to the health of the program. For those who say there are no candidates with a resume superior to Gus, you have to realize we’ll never have all the necessary data to make a sure-thing hire. If we don’t like where we are, we have to step out of our comfort zone to achieve something better.

And now that I’ve completely trashed my own profession, I’ll hang up and listen.

You said it all, and very well, too. Truly, humbly, truthfully.  If you keep a critical eye on yourself (without going to the paranoiacal extreme), seldom will anyone else ever need to. 

[aubiefifty 16,819]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:00 PM, Gowebb11 said:

I think the pocket presence thing is system based. Gus’s offense tends to cluster receivers in one area and has few safety outlets incorporated. I would get antsy in the pocket if that were the case, too. Time will tell if the pocket thing follows JS in the NFL, or if it was our system. 

hey man i just wanted to say i have been binge watching breaking bad on netflix. i am halfway into the second season.awesome show. i would have watched it long before no but i hate commercials.........now back to our regularly scheduled program........

[aubiefifty 16,819]

4 hours ago, Mikey said:

The whiners are equally hard pressed to identify one that has a realistic chance of being better and might accept the AU job.

i have a question for the board? many would take urbie in a heartbeat at auburn. do we really want to take chance of turning our beloved auburn  into thug u like urb did florida to win two or three or more games a year? not this geezer. rape, assault, robbery, and all kinds of crap went on down there and was becoming the norm. i would be freaking horrified. but i would take cristobal. he is a great coach. and on another site it was stated he told a writer { i think } he would take the auburn job in a heartbeat