2016 3* DE David Marshall (UGA flip 2/3/16)

[McLoofus 35,182]

So what does Garner get credit for...nothing? So he has been collecting a check for nothing the past 10 years of his career? ..year one the DL played really well with Ford and Lawson on the ends...without those 2 performance across the board was down. Let's see how things work with CWM at the helm, I don't think he would have kept Garner around if he was not up to his standards as a DL coach...jmo

To be fair, meta said that Garner's recruiting acumen has declined. So you kind of have to separate the last few years from 8, 9, 10 years ago to address his actual comment.

You mentioned it yourself. Year one, Garner had Ford and Lawson. One is in the NFL and the other will be. He also had Wright and Blackson, who are now in the NFL. He also had Adams, who will be soon. He also had Elijah Daniel, who came in a 5* and should have been NFL bound. Year two, he lost 2 of those guys and the DL became the worst unit on the football team.

I'm not saying that Garner deserves zero credit. I'm not saying that he deserves all the credit, either. I'm loathe to get into this debate. But let's have an honest conversation, at least.

I'm not ready to write the guy off, but he is currently losing his recruiting battles. I gather that opinion 100% from what I've read from trusted opinions on this board. And if you cite Muschamp keeping him as a major vote of confidence, then you have to also cite which DL coaches Muschamp chose not to pursue instead. I honestly don't know whether there were better, available candidates out there or not (clearly there were at the other coaching positions that we jettisoned in the regime change).

Slow day here at the office. I'm straight up just typing for the hell of it. War Damn David Marshall.

[gman87 398]

Garner's big deal was his relationships with all the DL recruits for this season. IMO, this is the year he either fishes or cuts bait with recruiting. And again, not totally sucking on defense will help him out in that regard.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Personal opinion, I think classifying Garner as "average" is ridiculous. I believe there are better defensive line coaches, but that's only true if you're comparing him to the elite of the elite. I think Tracy Rocker is a better position coach, but I also think Rocker is the best defensive line coach in the SEC, which is home to 14 of the best defensive line coaches in college football. Garner is "average" only if you drop out about 80 of the 100+ college programs from the discussion.

He, like a lot of guys before him, is dependent on recruiting. He certainly does better working with more talented guys than less talented guys. Duh. He's still a very good recruiter. I know that no one wants to give him credit for any guy we've ever signed. Either they were the previous staff's guy or they were Muschamp's guy. All of that is complete bull**** to me. No kid is signing with Auburn because he liked the old coaches, and very few kids are going to sign with a program if they don't like the position coach. He played major role in landing every defensive lineman we've signed in 2013, 2014, and 2015. Is he slipping? Maybe. But he's still really good.

I would put him somewhere in the middle of the conference in terms of position coaching and upper third in terms of recruiting (behind a guy like Orgeron but well ahead of a guy like Rocker).

I've never said that Garner deserves all the credit for developing any player. I don't think Tracy Rocker deserves even the majority of the credit for Nick Fairley's development, but tons of people are willing to give it to him. Coaches provide fundamentals, and I saw our guys get better in that department from Pelton to Garner. Nearly every player we've had has improved a great deal in this department under Garner. Coaches recruit, and I see the guys we've signed in the last 3 cycles as evidence that Garner pretty decent at it. Coaches provide an overall philosophy, and I haven't seen this gibe between the DL and defense lately. I'm glad our LB coach is spending time with the DL to help build that rapport between the two units that depend on each other so much. Coaches provide an overall attitude, which is what Rocker is so good at but might be Garner's weakest point.

And coaches make personnel decisions. Unfortunately for Garner, last season was the island of misfit toys. Zero pass rushers pushed useful players into roles that either didn't fit (Gabe, Monty at times, even Lambert to a degree) or exceeded their current ability (President and Daniel). There were no answers. There was no magic bullet. Without a threat on the edge, doubles were the norm on the interior, which killed what should have been a team strength. It was a mess. That's partly on Garner but not for his bad personnel moves. It goes to recruiting. We didn't have the pieces we needed. If that's rectified with the return of Lawson, progress by Lambert, development of Williams, Thornton, President, and/or Kennion, and arrival of Cowart, Holland, and Tega, the DL is all of the sudden going to fit together again. To me, that doesn't make Garner brilliant any more than last year makes him a moron.

I just think we see a lot of recency bias. Whatever happened two minutes ago erases everything else. That's not true. Garner is a solid fundamentals teacher and a very good recruiter. We saw that at UGA. We saw that in 2013. We didn't see it in 2014 for a variety of reasons, but it's not because he's suddenly a bad coach. If it turns around and the DL is amazing this year, I won't see him any differently than I did when we brought him back or last year. He's a very good coach. There are better; there are a LOT worse.

[imaolgatiger 523]

Personal opinion, I think classifying Garner as "average" is ridiculous. I believe there are better defensive line coaches, but that's only true if you're comparing him to the elite of the elite. I think Tracy Rocker is a better position coach, but I also think Rocker is the best defensive line coach in the SEC, which is home to 14 of the best defensive line coaches in college football. Garner is "average" only if you drop out about 80 of the 100+ college programs from the discussion.

He, like a lot of guys before him, is dependent on recruiting. He certainly does better working with more talented guys than less talented guys. Duh. He's still a very good recruiter. I know that no one wants to give him credit for any guy we've ever signed. Either they were the previous staff's guy or they were Muschamp's guy. All of that is complete bull**** to me. No kid is signing with Auburn because he liked the old coaches, and very few kids are going to sign with a program if they don't like the position coach. He played major role in landing every defensive lineman we've signed in 2013, 2014, and 2015. Is he slipping? Maybe. But he's still really good.

I would put him somewhere in the middle of the conference in terms of position coaching and upper third in terms of recruiting (behind a guy like Orgeron but well ahead of a guy like Rocker).

I've never said that Garner deserves all the credit for developing any player. I don't think Tracy Rocker deserves even the majority of the credit for Nick Fairley's development, but tons of people are willing to give it to him. Coaches provide fundamentals, and I saw our guys get better in that department from Pelton to Garner. Nearly every player we've had has improved a great deal in this department under Garner. Coaches recruit, and I see the guys we've signed in the last 3 cycles as evidence that Garner pretty decent at it. Coaches provide an overall philosophy, and I haven't seen this gibe between the DL and defense lately. I'm glad our LB coach is spending time with the DL to help build that rapport between the two units that depend on each other so much. Coaches provide an overall attitude, which is what Rocker is so good at but might be Garner's weakest point.

And coaches make personnel decisions. Unfortunately for Garner, last season was the island of misfit toys. Zero pass rushers pushed useful players into roles that either didn't fit (Gabe, Monty at times, even Lambert to a degree) or exceeded their current ability (President and Daniel). There were no answers. There was no magic bullet. Without a threat on the edge, doubles were the norm on the interior, which killed what should have been a team strength. It was a mess. That's partly on Garner but not for his bad personnel moves. It goes to recruiting. We didn't have the pieces we needed. If that's rectified with the return of Lawson, progress by Lambert, development of Williams, Thornton, President, and/or Kennion, and arrival of Cowart, Holland, and Tega, the DL is all of the sudden going to fit together again. To me, that doesn't make Garner brilliant any more than last year makes him a moron.

I just think we see a lot of recency bias. Whatever happened two minutes ago erases everything else. That's not true. Garner is a solid fundamentals teacher and a very good recruiter. We saw that at UGA. We saw that in 2013. We didn't see it in 2014 for a variety of reasons, but it's not because he's suddenly a bad coach. If it turns around and the DL is amazing this year, I won't see him any differently than I did when we brought him back or last year. He's a very good coach. There are better; there are a LOT worse.

This

[metafour 4,969]

Megadour for FIFA President! He knows all and can solve any problem!

Do you ever post anything of substance, or are you here to collect 10,000+ posts of s***ty one-liners? Seriously?

[metafour 4,969]

I don't think he would have kept Garner around if he was not up to his standards as a DL coach...jmo

I'm not sure that Muschamp (a short-term hire) had the authority to make that move (canning an "Auburn great" who just came back from a rival school) even if he wanted to. I'm not saying that Garner sucks; he's a decent coach which is why Muschamp likely has no problem with him sticking around, but his worth has always been tied up to his recruiting ability which seems to be slipping. While Muschamp didn't replace Garner, he did bring in Lance Thompson who is a former DL coach...and Thompson has been working with the DE's/"Bucks", which is what I had a feeling would happen when we brought him in.

[metafour 4,969]

Personal opinion, I think classifying Garner as "average" is ridiculous. I believe there are better defensive line coaches, but that's only true if you're comparing him to the elite of the elite. I think Tracy Rocker is a better position coach, but I also think Rocker is the best defensive line coach in the SEC, which is home to 14 of the best defensive line coaches in college football. Garner is "average" only if you drop out about 80 of the 100+ college programs from the discussion.

When I say "average", I obviously mean by SEC standards.

[AuburnNTexas 7,154]

Will you at least give Coach Garner credit for having a good eye for Talent. The latest semi-meltdowns are over the chance that we might not get D Marshall and Q Williams. Both were 3* players other programs initially overlooked until we showed interest in them.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

I'll not only give him a nod for scouting, I'll not that in his three years, we've signed: Lawson, Adams, Bradley, Daniel, Lambert, Thornton, Williams, Kennion, Russell, Lawrence, Cowart, Swain, and Johnson. That's a group loaded with top-shelf guys and targets that we prioritized over other teams. Again, no player commits if he thinks his position coach is a bum.

[TexasTiger 12,953]

Personal opinion, I think classifying Garner as "average" is ridiculous. I believe there are better defensive line coaches, but that's only true if you're comparing him to the elite of the elite. I think Tracy Rocker is a better position coach, but I also think Rocker is the best defensive line coach in the SEC, which is home to 14 of the best defensive line coaches in college football. Garner is "average" only if you drop out about 80 of the 100+ college programs from the discussion.

When I say "average", I obviously mean by SEC standards.

I think both of you are making sense. Good discussion.

[AUbritt 611]

Megadour for FIFA President! He knows all and can solve any problem!

Do you ever post anything of substance, or are you here to collect 10,000+ posts of s***ty one-liners? Seriously?

50/50

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

Will you at least give Coach Garner credit for having a good eye for Talent. The latest semi-meltdowns are over the chance that we might not get D Marshall and Q Williams. Both were 3* players other programs initially overlooked until we showed interest in them.

Q Williams was all Lance Thompson. FWIW.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

I don't think he would have kept Garner around if he was not up to his standards as a DL coach...jmo

I'm not sure that Muschamp (a short-term hire) had the authority to make that move (canning an "Auburn great" who just came back from a rival school) even if he wanted to. I'm not saying that Garner sucks; he's a decent coach which is why Muschamp likely has no problem with him sticking around, but his worth has always been tied up to his recruiting ability which seems to be slipping. While Muschamp didn't replace Garner, he did bring in Lance Thompson who is a former DL coach...and Thompson has been working with the DE's/"Bucks", which is what I had a feeling would happen when we brought him in.

I do believe CWM had the authority to fire or hire anyone he wanted. And I also think CWM will be here at least 4 years. IMO.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

I'll not only give him a nod for scouting, I'll not that in his three years, we've signed: Lawson, Adams, Bradley, Daniel, Lambert, Thornton, Williams, Kennion, Russell, Lawrence, Cowart, Swain, and Johnson. That's a group loaded with top-shelf guys and targets that we prioritized over other teams. Again, no player commits if he thinks his position coach is a bum.

Way too many JUCO DT's in this group. Thornton & Kennion are projects. Daniel is gone. Russell is going to be a STUD.

[Randman5000 4,229]

I'll not only give him a nod for scouting, I'll not that in his three years, we've signed: Lawson, Adams, Bradley, Daniel, Lambert, Thornton, Williams, Kennion, Russell, Lawrence, Cowart, Swain, and Johnson. That's a group loaded with top-shelf guys and targets that we prioritized over other teams. Again, no player commits if he thinks his position coach is a bum.

Way too many JUCO DT's in this group. Thornton & Kennion are projects. Daniel is gone. Russell is going to be a STUD.

yep, and Cowart was CWM's recruit.

But Adams and Lawson could be great.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

I'll not only give him a nod for scouting, I'll not that in his three years, we've signed: Lawson, Adams, Bradley, Daniel, Lambert, Thornton, Williams, Kennion, Russell, Lawrence, Cowart, Swain, and Johnson. That's a group loaded with top-shelf guys and targets that we prioritized over other teams. Again, no player commits if he thinks his position coach is a bum.

Way too many JUCO DT's in this group. Thornton & Kennion are projects. Daniel is gone. Russell is going to be a STUD.

yep, and Cowart was CWM's recruit.

But Adams and Lawson could be great.

Adams, Lawson & Russell are all going to be great. Not worried a bit about this year. Next year? Yep.

[CameronCrazy 1,069]

WDE - what is your opinion on Andrew Williams? Will he move inside to help with depth? And do you think he'll see the field this year?

[JFDTiger80 790]

I don't think he would have kept Garner around if he was not up to his standards as a DL coach...jmo

I'm not sure that Muschamp (a short-term hire) had the authority to make that move (canning an "Auburn great" who just came back from a rival school) even if he wanted to. I'm not saying that Garner sucks; he's a decent coach which is why Muschamp likely has no problem with him sticking around, but his worth has always been tied up to his recruiting ability which seems to be slipping. While Muschamp didn't replace Garner, he did bring in Lance Thompson who is a former DL coach...and Thompson has been working with the DE's/"Bucks", which is what I had a feeling would happen when we brought him in.

I do believe CWM had the authority to fire or hire anyone he wanted. And I also think CWM will be here at least 4 years. IMO.

I personally think that Pruitt is hotter than CWM right now. I think right or wrong Pruitt will be getting head coaching offers from higher profile schools and will become an HC before CWM does again.

[augolf1716 21,213]

I don't think he would have kept Garner around if he was not up to his standards as a DL coach...jmo

I'm not sure that Muschamp (a short-term hire) had the authority to make that move (canning an "Auburn great" who just came back from a rival school) even if he wanted to. I'm not saying that Garner sucks; he's a decent coach which is why Muschamp likely has no problem with him sticking around, but his worth has always been tied up to his recruiting ability which seems to be slipping. While Muschamp didn't replace Garner, he did bring in Lance Thompson who is a former DL coach...and Thompson has been working with the DE's/"Bucks", which is what I had a feeling would happen when we brought him in.

I do believe CWM had the authority to fire or hire anyone he wanted. And I also think CWM will be here at least 4 years. IMO.

I personally think that Pruitt is hotter than CWM right now. I think right or wrong Pruitt will be getting head coaching offers from higher profile schools and will become an HC before CWM does again.

We should all get on our knees and pray that he is a head coach next.

[AuburnNTexas 7,154]

I don't think he would have kept Garner around if he was not up to his standards as a DL coach...jmo

I'm not sure that Muschamp (a short-term hire) had the authority to make that move (canning an "Auburn great" who just came back from a rival school) even if he wanted to. I'm not saying that Garner sucks; he's a decent coach which is why Muschamp likely has no problem with him sticking around, but his worth has always been tied up to his recruiting ability which seems to be slipping. While Muschamp didn't replace Garner, he did bring in Lance Thompson who is a former DL coach...and Thompson has been working with the DE's/"Bucks", which is what I had a feeling would happen when we brought him in.

I do believe CWM had the authority to fire or hire anyone he wanted. And I also think CWM will be here at least 4 years. IMO.

I personally think that Pruitt is hotter than CWM right now. I think right or wrong Pruitt will be getting head coaching offers from higher profile schools and will become an HC before CWM does again.

We should all get on our knees and pray that he is a head coach next.

Especially Outside of the SEC

[mcgufcm 4,107]

3 JUCO DTs in three years is "way too many"? We've inked Bradley (good signing), Lawrence (TBD), and Swain (TBD). Hell, we signed almost as many JUCO QBs in a three year stretch. I don't think 1 JUCO DT per year is a bad strategy if you get the right guys.

For the record, Alabama signed 2 JUCO DTs in the same stretch: Jonathan Taylor and Jarran Reed. So is that just "too many" or do we leap from just right to way to many with one additional signee?

Seriously though, I recognize that Williams was a Lance Thompson guy and Cowart was a Muschamp guy, etc., but again, no prospect signs without belief in his position coach. Every WR that signs is a Craig guy even if that's not his lead recruiter. Every DB that signs this year is buying in on Robinson. Same is true for Garner.

[AUIH1 1,515]

I'll not only give him a nod for scouting, I'll not that in his three years, we've signed: Lawson, Adams, Bradley, Daniel, Lambert, Thornton, Williams, Kennion, Russell, Lawrence, Cowart, Swain, and Johnson. That's a group loaded with top-shelf guys and targets that we prioritized over other teams. Again, no player commits if he thinks his position coach is a bum.

Way too many JUCO DT's in this group. Thornton & Kennion are projects. Daniel is gone. Russell is going to be a STUD.

yep, and Cowart was CWM's recruit.

But Adams and Lawson could be great.

Adams, Lawson & Russell are all going to be great. Not worried a bit about this year. Next year? Yep.

They will only be great with an above average coach. RG is not an above average coach. He has always been a recruiter 1st and last and right now his recruiting sucks.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Wonder this guy changed his after being committed to Auburn and saying he's ALL IN. Guess he really wasn't.

[RunInRed 16,432]

@dee_hooper35: Out here grinding representing AU #AuburnFamily

[au_bsci_04 407]

Mind blown!!!