Looking on to 2017 (Merged)

[Mikey 16,617]

According to many of the "wise ones" here, 2016 was the put up or shut up year. "Eight wins or else!" We got eight wins. Gus put up, so now y'all can shut up.

[cole256 17,084]

51 minutes ago, Mikey said:

According to many of the "wise ones" here, 2016 was the put up or shut up year. "Eight wins or else!" We got eight wins. Gus put up, so now y'all can shut up.

I tell you what if you'll shut up about basketball I'll go against everybody on here that's talking about firing Gus

[Rednilla 5,391]

2 hours ago, Mikey said:

According to many of the "wise ones" here, 2016 was the put up or shut up year. "Eight wins or else!" We got eight wins. Gus put up, so now y'all can shut up.

That changes nothing about next season. The biggest reason only 8 wins was deemed acceptable preseason was the difficulty of the schedule, which flips to favorable with UGA and UAT coming here, and the consternation left over from the losses this year is what makes next year so important for Gus. 9 wins in the regular season are the minimum to keep his seat from getting awfully hot.

One other thing to put out there for the board: STOP with the comparisons to Mark Richt, okay? I get where you're going with that and all, but in 15 years Richt won 10 games or more 9 times at Georgia, while winning less than 8 only once. So far Gus has one double digit win season and one below 8. If we win 10 games for the next three years and only 7 or 8 the year after that, THEN you can tell those calling for his head to tone it down and remember that having a consistently good coach isn't a given.

If we go 8-4 (or worse) again next season, it's time to start questioning if Malzahn has what it takes to be a better-than-mediocre coach...and I'm not willing to settle for mediocre.

[Eagle-1 3,821]

3 hours ago, Rednilla said:

That changes nothing about next season. The biggest reason only 8 wins was deemed acceptable preseason was the difficulty of the schedule, which flips to favorable with UGA and UAT coming here, and the consternation left over from the losses this year is what makes next year so important for Gus. 9 wins in the regular season are the minimum to keep his seat from getting awfully hot.

One other thing to put out there for the board: STOP with the comparisons to Mark Richt, okay? I get where you're going with that and all, but in 15 years Richt won 10 games or more 9 times at Georgia, while winning less than 8 only once. So far Gus has one double digit win season and one below 8. If we win 10 games for the next three years and only 7 or 8 the year after that, THEN you can tell those calling for his head to tone it down and remember that having a consistently good coach isn't a given.

If we go 8-4 (or worse) again next season, it's time to start questioning if Malzahn has what it takes to be a better-than-mediocre coach...and I'm not willing to settle for mediocre.

Also, some here need to remember why they said they would be satisfied with 8 wins. Is it because Gus could only manage to win 7 the previous year?  The SEC is what it's all about. Hope Gus turns it around, but as I said, in the last 20 SEC games he is 8-12 with three straight losses to UAT, and to pitiful UGA teams.

[Mikey 16,617]

In spite of a serious rash of injuries at key positions, Auburn won 8 games and finished second in what is generally considered to be the toughest division in college football. We are going to the Sugar Bowl. Yet some here are giving ultimatums to "put up o shut up next year!"? As I noted above, Gus has already put up. He did it this year.

6 hours ago, Rednilla said:

That changes nothing about next season. The biggest reason only 8 wins was deemed acceptable preseason was the difficulty of the schedule, which flips to favorable with UGA and UAT coming here, .....

We have a better record vs. UGA in Athens than we do in Auburn. Auburn is 5-3 in our last 8 trips to Tuskaloser. If anything, next year will be easier when we get to go to our "homes away from home".

If all this whining about a season and coach that most schools would love to have accomplishes anything, it's only in the heads of the whiners. The whining does nothing positive for Auburn.

[PUB78 1,358]

All the pieces of the puzzle should be in place for 2017 especially if AU closes strong with some quality DL recruits. No excuses if Gus doesn't go at least 9-3 or 10-2

[Rednilla 5,391]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

In spite of a serious rash of injuries at key positions, Auburn won 8 games and finished second in what is generally considered to be the toughest division in college football. We are going to the Sugar Bowl. Yet some here are giving ultimatums to "put up o shut up next year!"? As I noted above, Gus has already put up. He did it this year.

We have a better record vs. UGA in Athens than we do in Auburn. Auburn is 5-3 in our last 8 trips to Tuskaloser. If anything, next year will be easier when we get to go to our "homes away from home".

If all this whining about a season and coach that most schools would love to have accomplishes anything, it's only in the heads of the whiners. The whining does nothing positive for Auburn.

Blah, blah blah, blah blah. In his 7 seasons at Auburn (including as a coordinator), Gus is 4-10 in Amen Corner. Only one of those victories came on the road, and that required a historic comeback led by the eventual Heisman winner in the midst of perhaps the greatest single season for a player in college football history. It's the only time we have ever beaten Saban in Turdville. And you have to go back more than a decade to find an AU victory between the hedges. That's not whining, it's just facts. I'm sorry they don't fit your narrative.

Furthermore, I said nothing about firing him, I said his seat will be hot. If we go 8-4 or worse next season, it will be the fourth straight such season under Malzahn. That's mediocre. Period. He might survive another year, particularly because of Jacobs and the necessity of bringing in a new AD to hire the next HC, but Gus will truly be coaching for his job in 2018 if he does. Isn't that what "put up or shut up" means?

Now, make no mistake about it, I'm still on the Gus Bus, and I think he deserves next season. I also think we'll be better next year, specifically because of the depth we'll have at pretty much every position on the field. I still think the main thing that has gone wrong for Malzahn as HC here is that Jeremy Johnson didn't pan out, which happens sometimes. I also recognize how much injuries hurt us this season, and I'm willing to give him a pass there because of it (despite the heart wrenching loss in what should have been an easy win against UGA).

And I would rather the message boards not be crawling with the woe-is-me crap that has been going on, too, but it's pretty hard to defend a coach at this level and with his salary making some of the asinine mistakes he made this season, even if the SEC is down so we get to go to the Sugar Bowl with 4 losses. (Side note: did anyone in "the toughest division in college football" win a non-SEC game against a Power 5 team besides Bama?)

You and I have interacted enough through the years that you know I'm not a Debbie Downer. Not sure if you saw the comment, but I'm the one who pointed out the fact that Gus has had Auburn in the top ten at some point during the second half of the season 3 of his 4 years here. However, there does come a point in time where we, the Auburn Family, have to stand up and say, "It isn't good enough for this program." When do you think that will be?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

13 hours ago, oracle79 said:

IF the AD doesn't change, we can't replace GM.  Another JJ hire will put us down to Mississippi's (both) and Arkansas level fighting out for last place in SEC.

GM should be replaced if he wins fewer than 9 regular season games with at least one of the wins being UGA or Bama.

GM should be replaced if he runs the Cox whirlybird and Cox touches a direct snap from center.

GM should be replaced if he doesn't have a viable option at QB by the first game of the season.

But, with so many accepting of mediocrity, I'm not holding my breath.

Interesting opinion.  Maybe true in most cases.  However, given the context of what  "mediocrity" in the SEC west means, I'm not so sure.

[1auburn1 1,120]

"If we go 8-4 (or worse) again next season, it's time to start questioning if _______ has what it takes to be a better-than-mediocre coach...and I'm not willing to settle for mediocre."

Sounds a lot like what lead up to Jetgate.

[Rednilla 5,391]

1 minute ago, 1auburn1 said:

"If we go 8-4 (or worse) again next season, it's time to start questioning if _______ has what it takes to be a better-than-mediocre coach...and I'm not willing to settle for mediocre."

Sounds a lot like what lead up to Jetgate.

I was thinking the same thing as I was typing it. Couple of big differences though: Tubs beat Alabama in 03, which kept the natives happy and caused the uproar about replacing him (an example of when the fan base had a say-so in what happened, btw). That was also his third straight mediocre season after winning the West in 2000, which is where we're at now. I didn't think Tubs needed to be fired after that year, just like I don't think Malzahn should be fired for this one (particularly when we're going to the Sugar Bowl).

Oh, and Tubs was coaching for his job in 04, too. What would have happened to him if we went 7-4 in 2004, instead of unbeaten? Do you think he would have deserved another season, or no?

I get what Mikey is saying about nothing positive for Auburn coming out of all the degradation, and he does have a solid point there. But that takes nothing away from the validity of some of the negative points, and rather than acknowledge them and then trying to tone down the negativity, he's straight telling people they're wrong for not being okay with what has happened the past three seasons. That's all I'm taking issue with here.

[bigbird 60,562]

To me, the SEC West is by far the toughest group of teams in the nation. Period. To coach in it you have to be one of the better coaches in the nation. The fact that there are so many good teams and coaches, coaching the best talent, means teams are going to have losses. Its just the nature of being in the West. If you took Auburn and Gus and put them in the ACC or TAMU and sumlin and put them in the Pac 10 or LSU and O into the BiG 12 you would see a lot of conference championships and title runs. Just because a record shows that they might be "mediocre" doesn't mean they are. When things are so close to equal, as they are in the SEC west, the smallest of ripples can have large effects. A lot of fans take these as excuses rather than what they are, real mitigating factors that have true causation to outcomes of games and seasons. 

I believe Gus is a good coach but has had some very perplexing desicions in his tenure. I also believe that he has had some bad breaks that have forced some of those decisions. Some, however, are all on him, like his stubborness, lack of passing attack, the Clemson debacle and the JF3 experiment.

[Rednilla 5,391]

15 minutes ago, bigbird said:

To me, the SEC West is by far the toughest group of teams in the nation. Period. To coach in it you have to be one of the better coaches in the nation. The fact that there are so many good teams and coaches, coaching the best talent, means teams are going to have losses. Its just the nature of being in the West. If you took Auburn and Gus and put them in the ACC or TAMU and sumlin and put them in the Pac 10 or LSU and O into the BiG 12 you would see a lot of conference championships and title runs. Just because a record shows that they might be "mediocre" doesn't mean they are. When things are so close to equal, as they are in the SEC west, the smallest of ripples can have large effects. A lot of fans take these as excuses rather than what they are, real mitigating factors that have true causation to outcomes of games and seasons. 

I believe Gus is a good coach but has had some very perplexing desicions in his tenure. I also believe that he has had some bad breaks that have forced some of those decisions. Some, however, are all on him, like his stubborness, lack of passing attack, the Clemson debacle and the JF3 experiment.

I agree. And, again, I'm still feeling good about the future of Auburn football with Gus at the helm. But if he doesn't evolve as a coach and move past some of those bad decisions you pointed out as being all on him, then does he deserve to be called one of the better coaches in the nation? Isn't learning from mistakes a requisite for holding such a title?

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,303]

5 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

...But if he doesn't evolve as a coach and move past some of those bad decisions you pointed out as being all on him, then does he deserve to be called one of the better coaches in the nation? Isn't learning from mistakes a requisite for holding such a title?

I believe we saw that this year. Evolution. Maybe not all at once, but he's learning. Which- again- is why 2017 is the year he MUST produce. If he doesn't get it now, he probably won't and Auburn deserves better than that.

[oracle79 3,569]

11 hours ago, Mikey said:

According to many of the "wise ones" here, 2016 was the put up or shut up year. "Eight wins or else!" We got eight wins. Gus put up, so now y'all can shut up.

I thought Gus only had daughters?

[Rednilla 5,391]

3 minutes ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

I believe we saw that this year. Evolution. Maybe not all at once, but he's learning. Which- again- is why 2017 is the year he MUST produce. If he doesn't get it now, he probably won't and Auburn deserves better than that.

We saw some evolution, yes, but it can't stop. We've gotta put a solid offense on the field consistently next season, or there HAS to be new blood. I could withstand 8-4 next year without calling for his head, but he'll have to bring in a new OC to develop the passing game, AND the heat will be on full broil for that season, so he'll still have to be evolving while that's going on.

[WarTim 3,456]

6 hours ago, Mikey said:

In spite of a serious rash of injuries at key positions, Auburn won 8 games and finished second in what is generally considered to be the toughest division in college football. We are going to the Sugar Bowl. Yet some here are giving ultimatums to "put up o shut up next year!"? As I noted above, Gus has already put up. He did it this year.

We have a better record vs. UGA in Athens than we do in Auburn. Auburn is 5-3 in our last 8 trips to Tuskaloser. If anything, next year will be easier when we get to go to our "homes away from home".

If all this whining about a season and coach that most schools would love to have accomplishes anything, it's only in the heads of the whiners. The whining does nothing positive for Auburn.

Great post Mikey. Thanks!!!

[creed 1,640]

Here's a reverse "Put up or Shut up" directed at those who don't give annually to Auburn (this does not include cost of tickets). SHUT UP, otherwise PUT UP by giving.

[AURex 2,006]

Most everyone agrees that the SEC was down this year. It was not a season of monsters beating on monsters. It was a weak season except for Bama.

I don't expect that to be the case next season. UGA returns with an even stronger defense, with both Chubb and Michel returning, and their WRs and a more mature Eason. Season 2 is usually the bump year for a new coach, so I expect UGA to be back in contention next season. Bama ain't gonna decline as long as Saban is coaching that team.  Will TA&M and LSU be competitive? Methinks yep.

Auburn could be better next season for sure. I don't see a lot of dropoff on defense, but the loss of Adams, Lawson, Holsey and Ford is not trivial. On offense, yes, two good QBs (maybe 3 if WB steps up) are better than one. More experienced receivers, except losing this years #1 target. Depth at RB may remain a problem (who knows if Miller will contribute much) and the OL with Kozan and Leff leaving could be shaky early in the season. In a run-heavy offense, those losses should not be ignored. Will CGM/CRL field a more balanced attack?

I'm not one for predicting the future. My football crystal ball broke years ago. But I'm optimistic that Auburn will have a better record next season than this season. As for championships and such, we all know what happens when Auburn is predicted to be a contender.

 

[OnthePlains 2,014]

So, I have been as critical of Gus since the UGA game as anyone and I believe with good reason.  However, with the signing of Stidham and the return of Pettway combined with the youthful receiving corps we have I feel confident our offense will return to a more consistent unit in 17.  The defense hopefully will continue to improve despite losing Adams, Lawson, Holsey and Ford.  We have some good young players on that side of the ball and some solid recruits coming to shore it up.  Despite my skepticism of Gus, I do feel 17 could be a great year. Great as in SEC West champs and possible playoff contender.  

That being said, I wonder what exactly it would take for some of the Gus supporters to finally turn on him? At what point is 7-5 and 8-4 not good enough?  If he does lose say just 3 games but loses to both uga and uat again, making him zero for his last 8 attempts, do we keep rolling with him because he managed 9 wins?  So a 9-3 season with losses to those teams again (and at home no less) and we go to say the Citrus Bowl...is that good enough?  Auburn pays him a lot of money not just to win but to win the big games.  And at Auburn they don't get bigger than those two every year. I'm not asking him to beat them every single year...heck at this point just beat one of them one time!  With all that though I will say I don't believe we lose to both this coming year and I certainly hope this time next year we are all talking about how much Gus grew as a HC and improved. 

I also wonder why some of you come to a message board in the first place.  I go to political boards to engage with those who have different ideas than me.  I go to religious boards to engage with those of different faiths and beliefs than me.  I come here to get the same.  Opinions of other AU fans matter to me.  Some of us see the last three years as average to mediocre.  Some of you see it differently.  Why does it have to be shout down the other guy?  For the love of AU I hope you sunshine pumpers turn out to be right!! I hope those of us who are down on Gus are proven wrong BIG TIME in the next couple of years but if we all came on here and discussed how great things are and how we all know AU is on the right track then whats the point of the board?  I love Auburn University.  Always have. Always will.  When I was a kid I was incredibly loyal to Coach Dye because he was the only coach I knew and to me he was Auburn.  I was crushed when he resigned.  I thought Auburn would never be the same.  Since then I have held no such loyalty to any coach but I have discovered that Auburn moves on either way.  I will always be loyal to the school and the young men and women who choose to wear the Orange and Blue.  I will also continue to express my opinion when I believe the coaches are wrong or struggling.  There will be a day when Gus is not the HC anymore whether he succeeds or not and I will still be pulling for Auburn like all of you and these same arguments will probably continue.  If I have insulted any sunshine pumpers in a previous post I apologize and again for the sake of AU I hope you all turn out to be right about him.  I respect your opinion on Gus, all I ask is you respect mine and others who feel the program may not be on the right track.  WDE 

[TigerOne 1,147]

Since Gus personally lost the Clemson, Georgia and helped lose the Texas A&M game this year was no excuses. 

We better see a crisp well executing machine, and it starts in two weeks.

[WarTim 3,456]

We BETTER?? Pretty strong words. JK

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

20 hours ago, Mikey said:

According to many of the "wise ones" here, 2016 was the put up or shut up year. "Eight wins or else!" We got eight wins. Gus put up, so now y'all can shut up.

Dang right Mikey. Those 8 wins showed everyone. 

[homersapien 11,386]

On 12/17/2016 at 1:31 PM, PoetTiger said:

I see your point....but I don't recall Gus making excuses or being mediocre. Not many teams will make the playoff getting their #1 QB and RB injured, especially in the crunch month of November...I just want to see the team come out with a defined offensive identity and not wait until game 4 or 5...the QB position looks good with JS and SW both in the fold....get UGA and Updyke U at home...no reason for another 8-4 season...

I agree.  

But more than that, I want to make at least one first down in the second half (against anybody) with our second (or third) string QB and our second (or third) string RB.

[AUsince72 11,084]

How 'bout 10-2 with the losses being uga and uat...

That a "put up" or a "shut up"?

[Mikey 16,617]

36 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

How 'bout 10-2 with the losses being uga and uat...

That a "put up" or a "shut up"?

Of course it is. Nothing short of 15-0 and a 30 point win over bammer is sufficient!