The great “What if?”

[NCAubs 377]

Watching Ole Miss play tonight and started thinking…

 

What if Flanagan stayed?  He is averaging over 16 this year for the pretenders in Oxford.  Would he be doing that at Auburn?  Would we have gotten the transfers we did?  
 

I think this team is better without him. I always liked him as a player but my opinion was that he could also be selfish.  That would not fly with this team.  
 

Feel free to opine.  Or ignore this.  Not going to hurt my feelings.  

[arktiger1975 518]

I agree, we are better off without him.

[AURex 2,011]

I'm happy that he found a new home. Wish him well. Bye!

 

[1auburn1 1,120]

Never liked his actions and demeanor on the floor.  We now have the most unselfish, enjoyable AU team to watch that I can recall.   I must conclude he was a negative.  Glad he moved on. 

[Mikey 16,625]

While we don't miss Flan, Ole Miss looks like a very good team.

[cole256 17,084]

There was a bunch of selfish ball the past couple of years but to say it was him is crazy.

Really just depends on the style of ball you like I think. I feel like this is more of an ol skool board where many have a hard time accepting change. If you don't like more of an alpha personality you probably didn't like him.

If you are more into everybody touch the ball, make 5 passes every possession everybody on the team average double digits there aren't any stars type of basketball you probably don't care for him.

But he did ALOT for this program, especially when we weren't that talented. He was never celebrated the way he should have been. I think it's kinda sad personally, but that's just my opinion.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

I think his defense would be very valued, as he’s still the closest thing to a prototypical 3/SF defender we have. Chad’s length does a lot for him, and he’s showed good hands, but Flanigan has the weight for the role + was a smarter defender. We also had a real rebounding problem for a while there (still looks to be a problem now based on that A&M game) and he’s about as good a rebounder at the 3 as you can find.

As far as everything else, I don’t think his general makeup fits the current roster, which may or may not matter. I don’t know about the whole locker room cancer thing some on here believed in, but he generally doesn’t appear to be a wild, rah rah guy, which these dudes mostly all appear to be now. 
He’s been a very inefficient guy FG% wise, but isn’t shooting many 3s (shooting them at a good clip) and is drawing a pretty healthy amount of free throws while shooting at a 80% clip. Appears that’s he’s at least working much more around the rim and using his athleticism, which is what we wanted. 
 

I definitely think he COULD help the team - we have a starting PG who’s a non-factor inside the 3 pt line, a starting SG who is mainly just getting in cardio every game, and starting SF who isn’t remotely a threat to score - but it would just be about his buy-in. Would he try to be the main offensive cog with this team that’s more democratic, would he let himself be mainly a 2 pt savant, would it even be good to let him be a 2 pt savant with the overlap with Jaylin and Brooke’s skill set, etc etc 

Tl;dr we could definitely use him, and he’d probably still be one of the best 4 or so players on the team, but it’s probably for the best for both parties he moved on

[phillyeagle 130]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

There was a bunch of selfish ball the past couple of years but to say it was him is crazy.

Really just depends on the style of ball you like I think. I feel like this is more of an ol skool board where many have a hard time accepting change. If you don't like more of an alpha personality you probably didn't like him.

If you are more into everybody touch the ball, make 5 passes every possession everybody on the team average double digits there aren't any stars type of basketball you probably don't care for him.

But he did ALOT for this program, especially when we weren't that talented. He was never celebrated the way he should have been. I think it's kinda sad personally, but that's just my opinion.

I loved Flan's defense and poise generally. What I didn't like was him dribbling the ball off his foot out of bounds on every fast break. I didn't see any behavior issues but I'm not privy to what happened behind the scenes.

 

Overall, I'm loving the whole-team effort of our current bunch and haven't missed any of our players from last year TBH.

[arktiger1975 518]

3 hours ago, Mikey said:

While we don't miss Flan, Ole Miss looks like a very good team.

Ole Miss is just a mid tier SEC team. I'm not even sure they are the best team in Mississippi. Record is definitely inflated. I would rank UK, UT, Auburn, Alabama, and A & M ahead of them for sure. Teams like MSU, USC, Georgia, and LSU are probably at least as good as them.

[HAPvsOA 287]

I still don't know if Pearl didn't know how to get the most out of Flan as a SG/SF with so many options on the team? if Flan wasn't back to being fully healthy? Or if Flan didn't want to be a role player? But a fresh start was probably the best thing for him.  

I really liked Flan, will always root for him, and really hope he can make it to the NBA. I was shocked that he improved so much from his recruit rank through his Freshman and Soph years to the point where he was going in the 2nd round of some mock drafts pre-injury. He was playing like an Okoro-lite after Okoro left.

Regardless, I think our team is better than Ole Miss and that we'll prove it on the court.

Edited January 11 by HAPvsOA

[HAPvsOA 287]

The greater "What if" in my opinion is what would have happened if Sharife Cooper would have stayed another year to play with Jabari & Kessler. How far would have AU made it then? And would Sharife have landed in a better spot in the NBA? Would Thor have even played much if he had been on a team with Jabari, JWill and Flan? 

I mean, look at this scholly dist. chart. Not sure how Purifoy still is on the list, but that's some amazing top end talent if those full senior and junior classes could have all played together. 

 

Edited January 11 by HAPvsOA

[mustache eagle 2,406]

20 minutes ago, HAPvsOA said:

The greater "What if" in my opinion is what would have happened if Sharife Cooper would have stayed another year to play with Jabari & Kessler. How far would have AU made it then? And would Sharife have landed in a better spot in the NBA? Would Thor have even played much if he had been on a team with Jabari, JWill and Flan? 

I mean, look at this scholly dist. chart. Not sure how Purifoy still is on the list, but that's some amazing top end talent if those full senior and junior classes could have all played together. 

 

I think we were a no brainer final 4 team if cooper had stayed.

 

as far as flan goes … I’ve been a Moore defender within the confines of this current team.  If flan could have played within this team then I definitely would have wanted flan.  His upside on both ends of the court are high.

[NCAubs 377]

Lots of good discourse here.  We’ll never know but I really think the main reason he left was to be with his dad.  We’ll also never know if this team would be better if he had stayed.  He might have been the stone cold killa we may need in some close game In the future.  Or Jaylin may already fit that bill.  
 

Just a good topic for discussion.  Thank you to everyone who participated amicably.  

[AU Is Gold 410]

Flannigan couldn't mold into his own strengths. He was always trying to do more than his skill set allowed. He was a hell of defender and could make plays in comfortable situations, but his miscomings affected his overall value for the team.

[AU Is Gold 410]

22 hours ago, HAPvsOA said:

The greater "What if" in my opinion is what would have happened if Sharife Cooper would have stayed another year to play with Jabari & Kessler. How far would have AU made it then? And would Sharife have landed in a better spot in the NBA? Would Thor have even played much if he had been on a team with Jabari, JWill and Flan? 

I mean, look at this scholly dist. chart. Not sure how Purifoy still is on the list, but that's some amazing top end talent if those full senior and junior classes could have all played together. 

 

Does anyone know how Purifoy could still be qualified as a Junior? This has got to be a mistake. 

[JwgreDeux 1,279]

On 1/11/2024 at 8:40 AM, cole256 said:

There was a bunch of selfish ball the past couple of years but to say it was him is crazy.

Really just depends on the style of ball you like I think. I feel like this is more of an ol skool board where many have a hard time accepting change. If you don't like more of an alpha personality you probably didn't like him.

If you are more into everybody touch the ball, make 5 passes every possession everybody on the team average double digits there aren't any stars type of basketball you probably don't care for him.

But he did ALOT for this program, especially when we weren't that talented. He was never celebrated the way he should have been. I think it's kinda sad personally, but that's just my opinion.

I just don't think he was good enough to be an alpha. Didn't have the shot or the handle. What he does have is elite athleticism at his size which this team does not have. Looks like he found a good fit and Pearl found some good fits as well. Wish him all the best, except we when play them. 

[Nontoxic 37]

Addition by subtraction...

My what if would be what would we have looked like with Scoot Henderson on the above mentioned team? Who stops those three?

[OfficiatingExpert 126]

On 1/10/2024 at 9:24 PM, NCAubs said:

Watching Ole Miss play tonight and started thinking…

 

What if Flanagan stayed?  He is averaging over 16 this year for the pretenders in Oxford.  Would he be doing that at Auburn?  Would we have gotten the transfers we did?  
 

I think this team is better without him. I always liked him as a player but my opinion was that he could also be selfish.  That would not fly with this team.  
 

Feel free to opine.  Or ignore this.  Not going to hurt my feelings.  

Bruce was a fool to try and start Chris Moore over Flanny. We lost one of the more talented players on our team. Wendell Greene also did a truly terrible job of running the offense last year so half of Al’s possessions were late clock heroics. Flanigan is finally getting the minutes he deserves and he’s a big reason Ole Miss is climbing the rankings. They’re giving him the ball unlike us. If we hadn’t picked up CBM you’d really feel the absence of Flanigan. I don’t know if we’d be better. I do know that Allen is a talented ball player and we didn’t do a great job of putting him in position to succeed. 

[OfficiatingExpert 126]

On 1/11/2024 at 11:41 AM, phillyeagle said:

I loved Flan's defense and poise generally. What I didn't like was him dribbling the ball off his foot out of bounds on every fast break. I didn't see any behavior issues but I'm not privy to what happened behind the scenes.

 

Overall, I'm loving the whole-team effort of our current bunch and haven't missed any of our players from last year TBH.

The number of people who think Flanny was a turnover machine blows my mind. He averaged 33% less turnovers than Wendell Greene per game. I guess it’s a residual feeling from Al’s freshman year when he played out of position because we didn’t have a PG? Anyway, dude was a beast and helped us win a ton of games. Now he’s helping ole Miss win a bunch of games, no surprise. 

[AU Is Gold 410]

5 minutes ago, OfficiatingExpert said:

The number of people who think Flanny was a turnover machine blows my mind. He averaged 33% less turnovers than Wendell Greene per game. I guess it’s a residual feeling from Al’s freshman year when he played out of position because we didn’t have a PG? Anyway, dude was a beast and helped us win a ton of games. Now he’s helping ole Miss win a bunch of games, no surprise. 

Greene controlled the ball exceedingly more than Flannigan, and I'm glad he's gone as well. But Flannigan made crucial mistakes on offense and never learned to dribble off the pass. Once again, good on defense, but a liability on offense. 

[JwgreDeux 1,279]

14 minutes ago, OfficiatingExpert said:

Bruce was a fool to try and start Chris Moore over Flanny. We lost one of the more talented players on our team. Wendell Greene also did a truly terrible job of running the offense last year so half of Al’s possessions were late clock heroics. Flanigan is finally getting the minutes he deserves and he’s a big reason Ole Miss is climbing the rankings. They’re giving him the ball unlike us. If we hadn’t picked up CBM you’d really feel the absence of Flanigan. I don’t know if we’d be better. I do know that Allen is a talented ball player and we didn’t do a great job of putting him in position to succeed. 

Let's be accurate about observations here. Flan got 30, 24, and 27 minutes per game his So, Jr. and Sr. seasons at Auburn. How many minutes does he deserve? He is shooting more, his percentage is down, averaging almost double the amount of attempts and about 6 more points per game against a very weak rated schedule thus far. I agree he could have been better utilized, and the guards he played with didn't put him in good spots, but its not like he is suddenly a different guy who is setting the world on fire. 

8 minutes ago, OfficiatingExpert said:

The number of people who think Flanny was a turnover machine blows my mind. He averaged 33% less turnovers than Wendell Greene per game. I guess it’s a residual feeling from Al’s freshman year when he played out of position because we didn’t have a PG? Anyway, dude was a beast and helped us win a ton of games. Now he’s helping ole Miss win a bunch of games, no surprise. 

His assist to turnover margin was negative his entire career and is basically flat this year. He is not a ball handler. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,151]

Flanagin's 1st year and 2nd year where he was asked to much showed his value. After the injury he did not seem to be the same. This year he is both healthy and trusting his achiles and is looking good.

He would be a great piece on this team and could help us but the issue is who he would replace. The only player i could see him replace is Berman. 

If he wants a shot at pro ball NBA at some other country he is better off at Ole Miss as he would be a more integral part of the offense.

Edited January 12 by AuburnNTexas

[OfficiatingExpert 126]

1 hour ago, JwgreDeux said:

Let's be accurate about observations here. Flan got 30, 24, and 27 minutes per game his So, Jr. and Sr. seasons at Auburn. How many minutes does he deserve? He is shooting more, his percentage is down, averaging almost double the amount of attempts and about 6 more points per game against a very weak rated schedule thus far. I agree he could have been better utilized, and the guards he played with didn't put him in good spots, but its not like he is suddenly a different guy who is setting the world on fire. 

His assist to turnover margin was negative his entire career and is basically flat this year. He is not a ball handler. 

A lot of that’s the coaching staff’s fault for not having a decent ball handler. Zep Jasper/Wendell Greene was a substandard point guard room in the SEC and Flanny and JWill suffered for it. Pearl didn’t play Flanigan last season until Moore was unplayable, that was an error. They also trusted Wendell Greene to run an SEC offense. Looks like Pearl felt the same because he upgraded the point guard room and he brought in another wing. 

[AU Is Gold 410]

8 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Flanagin's 1st year and 2nd year where he was asked to much showed his value. After the injury he did not seem to be the same. This year he is both healthy and trusting his achiles and is looking good.

He would be a great piece on this team and could help us but the issue is who he would replace. The only player i could see him replace is Berman. 

If he wants a shot at pro ball NBA at some other country he is better off at Ole Miss as he would be a more integral part of the offense.

He looks good on a weak Ole Miss team just like he looked good on a weak Auburn team with Cooper.

[BustemBigBlue 176]

I’ve only seen him play once this year and that was against Tennessee. Not good. Looked like he wanted to be the one to shoot it every time down the floor  and he wasn’t hitting shots.