Rhett leaves AU / New OC discussion (Merged)

[Strychnine 1,802]

12 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

Not arguing here, the point is Gus' boss is the only one that can "officially" tell him what to do.  In any organization there are certain power brokers that will alway have oversight in the way you run your organization, but the person that will fire you is your boss.  He may not want to fire you, but the boss will fire you, not the power broker (see Gus and Rhett this year).

In my OP I posed the question; I wonder if Gus is being set up to fail?  That would not be all JJ as I don't think has that kind of foresight or power, but JJ would be the one to fire Gus.

 

That is the way it should be.  However, the reality is that unless they are wildly successful, coaches are little more than mercenaries to the program.  If the big money donors or BOT members want you gone, you will be gone.  They may lack the authority to pick up the phone and do it directly, but they can apply sufficient pressure to make it happen.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

3 hours ago, bigbird said:

I think Gus is a good coach that has lost his way. The play calling and predictability can not be assigned to anyone but him. He is stubborn and needs help retooling his scheme, but I don't think he needs to be replaced...yet. That said, this search and the circus that is happening(not on boards but behind closed doors) is not Gus' fault. He had his guy...and the guy after that. There are power plays being made and agendas being pushed my many. That is what is causing this thing to become a cluster. I say that not out of contempt from the staff but my cynicism and the ineptitude by those in charge. 

If this is the case,  and I've said it for days, why are we even keeping him? As I've posted a few times hamstringing our HCs OC hire is setting him up to fail... You don't slowly remove a band-aid, you just rip the sucker off. 

2 hours ago, Strychnine said:

 

You know, Alabama and the REC gets a lot of blame from our fanbase, but I often think Auburn can be a worse enemy to Auburn than Alabama ever can be.

Exactly. As long as we are worried more about what others think, we will never excel and always be Bamas redheaded stepchild. 

2 hours ago, AUDevil said:

Do you think we are treated differently by the media in a way that causes us to have to be more careful?  I think when Auburn makes the bold decision we usually do pretty well, despite the media backlash.  Sometimes we worry to much about perception.

Thing is it's only local media... The Alabama media... We certainly are not viewed negatively nationally. 

2 hours ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

Bird, I heard this morning from a guy who is loosely connected to the athletic department that Lashlee was in fact fired and that Gus is looking to put in place a "great" OC who will have total control to the point of changing systems if that's what is deemed necessary.  This may be old news as I haven't sifted through all 100+ pages of this topic, but I was encouraged by this "information".  If we think back to the Steele hire it was seemingly delayed and somewhat out of left field but was, in my opinion, a good and thoughtful hire.

I posted a link a while back... Either the day it happened or the day after, but I posted an article that said the very same thing. It said we had fired Lashlee. I asked about it, and not a single person responded to it. I can tell you the media here said we fired him... You really just see it on message boards saying otherwise. Maybe some local articles... But i posted an article that wasn't from the SEC... 

1 hour ago, MadtownTiger said:

I disagree.  I don't think they were fair or favorable during the Cam Newton saga and the HBO Real Sports segment was a hit piece.

WDE!

Who really cares? Do you think Bama cares about perception? Do you think the Miami Hurricanes cared about perception in the 80s to 90s? Think USC cared about perception back in the Pete Carroll days? Winners win and don't care what the media has to say. Pandering to the media, and letting people who have NOTHING to do with our coaching staff blocking our coach from hiring who he wants... Well it's no wonder we have won 10 games in back to back seasons once in our entire history. 

1 hour ago, imaolgatiger said:

Well if they don't want Gus to do HIS thing, then they should fire him immediately and pay the man! THIS IS B.S.! What's next, Wayne Bolt as the extra coach? 

I agree 1000%. I think saying he cannot hire who he wants is setting him up to fail, and I don't understand. If you don't trust him to save his own job... We should fire him immediately and hand Chip Kelly a blank check

[AUwent 3,754]

^Chip Kelly's not an Auburn man! Something something Auburn creed...

[Strychnine 1,802]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

It wouldn't surprise me. They certainly did their best to do that with Tubbs, because he wouldn't play ball, and it's been said Gus is similar in that regard. It also wouldn't surprise me if they pushed Gus too far at some point and he told them where to stick it and quit.  If he quits without going to another school, he doesn't owe Auburn any money, and he certainly has made plenty to live comfortably.  Imagine how much fun it would be to fill a position after a coach outright quits because he's sick of dealing with the bureaucracy.

I love Auburn, but I really do wish someone would have the guts to tell certain people to go away.

 

One would think that at some point it would become obvious to supposedly intelligent people that meddling is less likely to produce positive results than just allowing people to do their jobs as they see fit.  Given what Auburn pays these coaches, you would think it even more obvious.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, AUwent said:

^Chip Kelly's not an Auburn man! Something something Auburn creed...

I think the correct title is "cheating a**"

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

One would think that at some point it would become obvious to supposedly intelligent people that meddling is less likely to produce positive results than just allowing people to do their jobs as they see fit.  Given what Auburn pays these coaches, you would think it even more obvious.

Funny how money is blinding.  To make it worse, Auburn is in Alabama... a state that has perfected the art of the "good ol boy" network. If it were only as simple as applying logic.

My great hope is that Auburn will bring in an outsider president who brings in an outsider AD who knows how to raise funds and has the guts to tell the "Son's of Dye" to go kick rocks.

[KMR4AU 2]

1 hour ago, imaolgatiger said:

Well if they don't want Gus to do HIS thing, then they should fire him immediately and pay the man! THIS IS B.S.! What's next, Wayne Bolt as the extra coach? 

Well he does live in town now and is probably bored of drinking cold beer and playing golf all day at AU Club.

[MadtownTiger 363]

28 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Young in the college game. Only been at the college level just over 4 years now.

This has no real bearing on anything, so don't feel like you need to respond.  Other fish to fry and all.....

I think I heard on the radio yesterday that CCL is 42 (I thought he was a lot closer to Rhett's age), and as you said he's been a college coach for four years, so he might be easily influenced.  For no reason other than curiosity I looked at CGM's bio.  At age 41 he was in his first year as a college coach working for Nutt.  Obviously that wasn't a healthy relationship, but I wonder how much of that failure was due to CGM being a young coach on the rise and Nutt being a stubborn ego maniac.  I also though it was moderately interesting that when CGM was the same age as Lindsey he was working for Todd Graham at Tulsa, who is now Lindsey's HC at ASU. Further, prior to joining Graham and Malzahn at Tulsa, Hand was at WVU with Curtis Magee who has been Rich Rodriguez's spread option OC through pretty much his career as a HC, except for the one year he worked for Todd Graham at Pittsburgh.  

Man, I wish they would hire somebody so I can let this mess go.....

WDE!

[gctiger 934]

If the power brokers are meddling again then they should break out their bill folds and make Gus hire a top caliber OC.  If the power brokers want to buy a place at the table, then they need to ante up, stop being cheap as hell and pay whatever it takes to straighten out this mess   Otherwise, they should cut Gus loose and hit the restart.

I'm honestly about to start hoping for a train wreck of epic proportion hoping that it will shine a bright light on the micro management that is taking place and force some changes for the better. 

[keesler 5,924]

19 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

Not arguing here, the point is Gus' boss is the only one that can "officially" tell him what to do.  In any organization there are certain power brokers that will alway have oversight in the way you run your organization, but the person that will fire you is your boss.  He may not want to fire you, but the boss will fire you, not the power broker (see Gus and Rhett this year).

In my OP I posed the question; I wonder if Gus is being set up to fail?  That would not be all JJ as I don't think has that kind of foresight or power, but JJ would be the one to fire Gus.

The AU Administration and the so-called "PTB" gave Gus the benefit of the doubt after the dismal 2015 season ended with AU finishing last in the division and landing in freaking Legion Field for the B'ham Bowl.  That was an embarrassing feat in and of itself for any AU supporter, and even more so for the big money men of Auburn.

So, they gave Gus carte blanc,  allowed him to hire "HIS" men to the staff, he brought in Herb Hand, Kodi Burns, etc.   He was allowed to bring in his staff, the men he trusted. 

Gus had all off season and all summer to get his plan in place, get his staff on board with his plans and fix the QB issue in an effort to put a better prepared and more productive offensive product on the field.

It was brutally apparent that Gus failed to do his job in the season opener.  And as the season progressed, he tried to change things somewhat but by the time the changes had a positive affect on the product on the field, untimely injuries accumulated and it became apparent yet again that Gus failed to do his job.  He failed to prepare a backup QB, or have a plan in place in the event of injuries to his starters.  In the meantime, we witnessed an ill prepared offense that was helter skelter with no rhyme or reason.  Head scratching play calling, lack of an offensive identity, etc.

Now, here we are at the conclusion of the 2016 season.  The AU Administration, the BOT, the PTB already gave Gus a chance to right the ship after 2015 - they apparently have zero trust in his ability to make a new hire on his staff.  Therefore, as a show of  "change", Rhett was allow to pursue coaching opportunities elsewhere and we are now witnessing a tug of war with the Head Coach and the PTB over Rhett's replacement.  Jay Jacobs is a puppet on the end of the PTB's strings, he does their bidding or he will be out on his ass.

Auburn is in a sad state of affairs, and they can only blame themselves. 

[Tiger 8,827]

I let my anger/disappointment towards Gus get in the way of rationally thinking about this hiring procedure. I've come around to thinking Gus needs to hire who he wants and sink or swim with him. I used to think Gus used up his entire leash by hiring Rhett and Kodi when it comes to making hires and needed someone to look over his shoulder because he has lost all trust of his judgement by those around him but the way this seems to be going it feels even messier than anticipated.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

7 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I let my anger/disappointment towards Gus get in the way of rationally thinking about this hiring procedure. I've come around to thinking Gus needs to hire who he wants and sink or swim with him. I used to think Gus used up his entire leash by hiring Rhett and Kodi when it comes to making hires and needed someone to look over his shoulder because he has lost all trust of his judgement by those around him but the way this seems to be going it feels even messier than anticipated.

And don't forget, he also hired Garner, Horton, Craig, Muschamp, Steele, & McGriff... I honestly blame Craig a little for the Hand and Kodi hires.  I think he created enough waves for Gus trying to run the offense that Gus decided he'd be better off removing conflict all together.

[Strychnine 1,802]

7 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Funny how money is blinding.  To make it worse, Auburn is in Alabama... a state that has perfected the art of the "good ol boy" network. If it were only as simple as applying logic.

My great hope is that Auburn will bring in an outsider president who brings in an outsider AD who knows how to raise funds and has the guts to tell the "Son's of Dye" to go kick rocks.

 

I have a difficult time understanding how people can rationalize such an environment being a good idea.  Power brokers working behind the scenes to accelerate the departure of an unsuccessful coach does at least make sense.  While I did not agree with the way they went about it, I completely understood why JetGate happened and even agreed with their motive.  The idiocy that was Nallsminger is the kind of thing that should cost a multi-million dollar head coach his job.  What does not make sense is trying to influence the hiring decisions of the head coach because you have been disappointed in results, or any meddling in program operations.  The head coach is the one that ultimately has to work with these people.  Let him succeed or fail based entirely on his own decisions.  If you lack faith in his ability to make competent decisions, then just get rid of him.  Buyouts are expensive, but they are certainly cheaper than losing attendance and fanbase buy-in.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, Strychnine said:

I have a difficult time understanding how people can rationalize such an environment being a good idea. 

You and me both. It's really a matter of "we've always done it that way" combined with some serious power behind some big money people.

That's why, as much as I love Auburn, I was totally ready to leave Alabama when I did... because this stuff was everywhere I turned down there.  Every company I worked for, no matter how big or small, had one of 3 big money families meddling in their business, and it hurts the economy, the moral, etc. 

[DAG 33,993]

3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

And don't forget, he also hired Garner, Horton, Craig, Muschamp, Steele, & McGriff... I honestly blame Craig a little for the Hand and Kodi hires.  I think he created enough waves for Gus trying to run the offense that Gus decided he'd be better off removing conflict all together.

1

You are out of your mind.

[AuburnNTexas 7,150]

No HC should be second guessed on his hires. Any program that does that is in trouble. If you don't trust the HC to pick the best staff then you shouldn't have hired him or you should fire him if already hired. It seems that the PTB along with JJ is the problem more than Gus.  I have been reading the Tuberville thread and those who are not totally enamored of him mention how at the end he seemed to have lost his fire. Probably after what the PTB did to him it caused him to lose interest a little at the end. It is hard to do a great job when you don't think your boss or bosses support you.

If like some said this year they gave Gus full range to clean up that means before that they were meddling. If that is the case they hung him out to dry.

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, DAG said:

You are out of your mind.

Thanks for that assessment, DAG, but have you ever worked in an environment where you were constantly butting heads with someone? 

[Beaker 2,457]

Seems like some dark conspiracy theories are springing up.  Good points mostly.  One new theory:  the PTB are trying to get a high flying OC that could be our HC in 2018 if needed and Gus isn't on board with that direction or the person they want him to pursue.  Someone who is one job away from being a HC....just a wild theory.

[DAG 33,993]

Just now, lionheartkc said:

Thanks for that assessment, DAG, but have you ever worked in an environment where you were constantly butting heads with someone? 

Yes! I have freaking ran a whole section of a hospital, where I have had nurses, therapists, food directors, housekeeping, etc under my tutelage. I also had to work hand and hand with medical directors aka DRs who are some of the hardest people to communicate with.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, Beaker said:

Seems like some dark conspiracy theories are springing up.  Good points mostly.  One new theory:  the PTB are trying to get a high flying OC that could be our HC in 2018 if needed and Gus isn't on board with that direction or the person they want him to pursue.  Someone who is one job away from being a HC....just a wild theory.

Interesting thought. I think that would piss a lot of people off since they are already upset that our current head coach is learning on the job.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

28 minutes ago, keesler said:

The AU Administration and the so-called "PTB" gave Gus the benefit of the doubt after the dismal 2015 season ended with AU finishing last in the division and landing in freaking Legion Field for the B'ham Bowl.  That was an embarrassing feat in and of itself for any AU supporter, and even more so for the big money men of Auburn.

So, they gave Gus carte blanc,  allowed him to hire "HIS" men to the staff, he brought in Herb Hand, Kodi Burns, etc.   He was allowed to bring in his staff, the men he trusted. 

Gus had all off season and all summer to get his plan in place, get his staff on board with his plans and fix the QB issue in an effort to put a better prepared and more productive offensive product on the field.

It was brutally apparent that Gus failed to do his job in the season opener.  And as the season progressed, he tried to change things somewhat but by the time the changes had a positive affect on the product on the field, untimely injuries accumulated and it became apparent yet again that Gus failed to do his job.  He failed to prepare a backup QB, or have a plan in place in the event of injuries to his starters.  In the meantime, we witnessed an ill prepared offense that was helter skelter with no rhyme or reason.  Head scratching play calling, lack of an offensive identity, etc.

Now, here we are at the conclusion of the 2016 season.  The AU Administration, the BOT, the PTB already gave Gus a chance to right the ship after 2015 - they apparently have zero trust in his ability to make a new hire on his staff.  Therefore, as a show of  "change", Rhett was allow to pursue coaching opportunities elsewhere and we are now witnessing a tug of war with the Head Coach and the PTB over Rhett's replacement.  Jay Jacobs is a puppet on the end of the PTB's strings, he does their bidding or he will be out on his ass.

Auburn is in a sad state of affairs, and they can only blame themselves. 

While I normally fully agree with you... I can't say the same on this post. 

What you are saying is after the Birmingham Bowl embarrassment, they let Gus do this thing  and bring in who he wanted, and this season finished not with the Birmingham Bowl, but the Sugar Bowl... The highest bowl any SEC team that isn't in the playoffs can make. And now they don't trust him to bring in his OC? It's been said by those in the know (as close to in the know we can get) Gus had a blank and it's been blocked. 

Also, you cannot attribute the failure of backup QBs or the failure of a back up plan on QBs to Gus. Gus is the head coach. He isn't the OC/QB Coach. THAT is who deserves the blame for that failure. I mean Lashlee WAS the offensive coordinator as well as the QB coach. That's on Lashlee 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, DAG said:

Yes! I have freaking ran a whole section of a hospital, where I have had nurses, therapists, food directors, housekeeping, etc under my tutelage. I also had to work hand and hand with medical directors aka DRs who are some of the hardest people to communicate with.

And did you think to yourself, "I could do my job a lot better if I didn't have to deal with this crap?" That's where I think Gus's head was when he planned his offensive staff hires.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

6 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Seems like some dark conspiracy theories are springing up.  Good points mostly.  One new theory:  the PTB are trying to get a high flying OC that could be our HC in 2018 if needed and Gus isn't on board with that direction or the person they want him to pursue.  Someone who is one job away from being a HC....just a wild theory.

I don't think  this is the case, at all. I think there is zero chance we hire another coach who is learning on the job. 

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Interesting thought. I think that would piss a lot of people off since they are already upset that our current head coach is learning on the job.

Exactly 

[DAG 33,993]

Just now, lionheartkc said:

And did you think to yourself, "I could do my job a lot better if I didn't have to deal with this crap?" That's where I think Gus's head was when he planned his offensive staff hires.

 

No, I actually thought where did this stuff begin and how do I figure a way to make it a constructive environment. Maybe I did something wrong ? Who knows. I truly think it takes two to tango. I don't like the idea of the upper hand potentially blocking Gus's choice, which I've said probably 60 pages ago, however, CGM deserves some blame too. It has been rumored that he is very stubborn. I don't know the ends and out of what happened with CRL, but I don't think it was as easy as I am going to go find another job. I don't know the ends and out of the CDC situation, but  I would like to believe that he provided some devil's advocate suggestions that went on false ears. Either way, things don't just turn sour, especially with someone you've hired, particularly years later. If you walk into a toxic scenario that is one thing you have to deal with as a leader. If you create a toxic scenario, as a leader you also have to deal with it. If you choose to go a different direction, this is your choice as the leader and indirectly blaming someone else for it does not fly.

[Tiger 8,827]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

And don't forget, he also hired Garner, Horton, Craig, Muschamp, Steele, & McGriff... I honestly blame Craig a little for the Hand and Kodi hires.  I think he created enough waves for Gus trying to run the offense that Gus decided he'd be better off removing conflict all together.

True. But the Kodi hire was just inexcusable to me especially in a hot seat season -- which is what made it worse for me. We need/needed a sure thing badly, or as close to a sure thing you can get in some capacity. Whether the guy was accomplished in coaching WRs or an accomplished recruiter -- and we got neither. I know you won't agree but we can agree to disagree. I can't imagine another top power 5 program making a hire such as that one. It just seemed like another Lashlee type hire. And IMO the only reason that Travis Williams hire was ok to me was that our DC is a LB coach by trade and had great input on the linebackers.

But yes, the Horton, Craig, McGriff, and Muschamp hires were home runs. It has been said on here that JJ was behind the Garner hiring, and the Steele hiring....well I'm not ready to jump on his bandwagon yet I, personally, need to see another year. But thats just me.