Payton Thorne

[cole256 17,084]

33 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

I’m not doubting that it wasn’t being said and negatively impacting Auburn.   And being used against Auburn.    All I’m saying is that if there was clear evidence and documented proof, does anyone really believe that Auburn wouldn’t have fired him for cause?  
I believe you that talk was going around but I just don’t know if a disgruntled player started that and then it spread out into the ranks of the public.   

No there isn't clear evidence or proof,  but if it was as easy as player get mad so he says racism because he's disgruntled don't you think you'd see more situations like this? 

Contrary to popular belief that rarely happens and you can actually see at a few other schools now coaches can lean on players and do a bunch to them because players are scared to step out of line.  I think it's sad that people would naturally assume a player would get mad and lie before they believe a coach is abusing his power, because when you think about it what have we actually seen more of? 

But I don't want to talk about race on here because I know what that leads to my point was this particular decline in recruiting wasn't normal.  It was more than a couple of guys saying it.  Guys told of particular actions, situations, and events and said this is how they are doing things there and of course talented recruits were thinking there's no way I'm going to walk into that. 

Now we have Freeze whose a better man, and he's changing that culture

[cole256 17,084]

5 minutes ago, JuscAUse! said:

No you didn't imply anything. Unless you wrote the article I was referencing. I was agreeing with you, FWIW. But I'm a bit sorry I did now. 

  

Well you said I implied so I just wanted to address that.  I don't understand why you get mad when u reply to your statement.  I agree if it was evidence and all of that stuff Auburn would have done something.  But that doesn't mean nothing happened.  That's all I'm saying

[cole256 17,084]

14 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

I guess the rest of the team loved him (especially the guy with the broken jaw ( all hearsay so maybe I don’t know the real story just outcome)). 

Did you see signs that they didn't love them? Did you play sports? If you did you didn't ever see a fight? Jason kelce is known as one of the best men in football....he's also known to fight.... my point is if he did get into a fight so what? That doesn't define a person, you don't even know what the fight was about.  How many fights do you know nothing about? 

But you prove my point many Auburn fans don't even like alpha personalities, or alpha players but here we are talking about these young freshmen guys who are going to come in and be aggravated if the qb isn't good at getting them the ball.

Only reason we beat Oregon that year was Seth Williams but I guess the behavior that we don't know anything about Trump that. As opposed those guys that we do love huh

[JuscAUse! 1,495]

30 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Well you said I implied so I just wanted to address that.  I don't understand why you get mad when u reply to your statement.  I agree if it was evidence and all of that stuff Auburn would have done something.  But that doesn't mean nothing happened.  That's all I'm saying

I never said you implied anything. I said the author of the ARTICLE in the flywareagle post implied this. Let's give it a rest and get back to Payton Thorne. 

[CR 2,447]

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I don’t want to create an argument, but….do the QB’s in that game have any D1 offers?  Asking for a friend.

The Thompson QB is only a 9th grader and already being recruited by basically everyone, including Au and Bama.

[cole256 17,084]

1 hour ago, JuscAUse! said:

I agree with baseball and a few others that AU can't prove what you are implying about mistreated black players by Harsin. And I, for one, wish that we COULD prove what you believe and have stated in the past. I do believe that you heard something from a couple or a few players, but AU lawyers and the administration would have had to be complete fools to pay him when they could have fired him for cause. They could absolutely do so if what was implied in the article was provable.

 

 

Edit: Just saw baseballs post above.

First sentence

[I_M4_AU 8,048]

11 minutes ago, CR said:

The Thompson QB is only a 9th grader and already being recruited by basically everyone, including Au and Bama.

Good to know.  9th grade, goodness.

[JuscAUse! 1,495]

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

First sentence

My bad. I didn't mean it that way but I darn sure typed it that way.

[gman87 398]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

There's no doubt everybody has a bunch of work to do to be a top tier team.  You quoted me, and I just replied because like I said it was a rebuttal and you insinuated that to being harsh when on this board people have been much much worse for better play. 

So cool, you keep doing you too I guess?

War eagle friend, honestly we probably aren't that far apart on opinion. I'm just saying give Thorne a year in the system, better OL and WRs, the coaches game planning a LOT better than this year and he should play at a higher level...like a decent SEC QB. He isn't going to be Joe Burrows 2.0 but hopefully able to get us a few more wins than this year. We are rebuilding and if you look at places like FSU and UT it takes a couple of years.

Conversely, if a rock star transfer would come in, then of course you bring him in but our needs are great across the board and the funds have to be used judiciously.

[cole256 17,084]

Just now, JuscAUse! said:

My bad. I didn't mean it that way but I darn sure typed it that way.

Absolutely fine no apology needed just wanted you to see I wasn't being a dick to you I was just responding to what was written.  We're cool

[cole256 17,084]

13 minutes ago, gman87 said:

War eagle friend, honestly we probably aren't that far apart on opinion. I'm just saying give Thorne a year in the system, better OL and WRs, the coaches game planning a LOT better than this year and he should play at a higher level...like a decent SEC QB. He isn't going to be Joe Burrows 2.0 but hopefully able to get us a few more wins than this year. We are rebuilding and if you look at places like FSU and UT it takes a couple of years.

Conversely, if a rock star transfer would come in, then of course you bring him in but our needs are great across the board and the funds have to be used judiciously.

That's a very good point.  I think I said that about tj so I'd be a hypocrite not to say the same for PT.  I guess when it comes down to it that what makes his case so hard.  Pretty much was he getting better because he was getting comfortable or was it just beating up on lesser competition type thing.  I think both perspectives have viable points now that you help me to think a little more on it.  We all should probably just talk to each other instead of attacking each other even if it's something we don't agree with.  

It's frustrating to be in the same spot

[SaltyTiger 7,899]

2 hours ago, gman87 said:

I'm just saying give Thorne a year in the system, better OL and WRs, the coaches game planning a LOT better than this year and he should play at a higher level...like a decent SEC QB. He isn't going to be Joe Burrows 2.0 but hopefully able to get us a few more wins than this year. We are rebuilding and if you look at places like FSU and UT it takes a couple of years.

Conversely, if a rock star transfer would come in, then of course you bring him in but our needs are great across the board and the funds have to be used judiciously.

Pretty much the sentiment of most Auburn people. Thread turned into something not intended by the OP

[HAYinthemiddleoftheBARN 204]

I hope Payton morphs into a true stud SEC QB during this off season. Maybe Stidham-to-Davis type abilities and beyond. He runs harder than Stid did. I've seen this guy pour all into being QB 1 and I hope he shows us all he's worthy of being QB 1. 

[Mims44 1,896]

6 hours ago, gman87 said:

War eagle friend, honestly we probably aren't that far apart on opinion. I'm just saying give Thorne a year in the system, better OL and WRs, the coaches game planning a LOT better than this year and he should play at a higher level...like a decent SEC QB. He isn't going to be Joe Burrows 2.0 but hopefully able to get us a few more wins than this year. We are rebuilding and if you look at places like FSU and UT it takes a couple of years.

Conversely, if a rock star transfer would come in, then of course you bring him in but our needs are great across the board and the funds have to be used judiciously.

5 hours ago, cole256 said:

That's a very good point.  I think I said that about tj so I'd be a hypocrite not to say the same for PT.  I guess when it comes down to it that what makes his case so hard.  Pretty much was he getting better because he was getting comfortable or was it just beating up on lesser competition type thing.  I think both perspectives have viable points now that you help me to think a little more on it.  We all should probably just talk to each other instead of attacking each other even if it's something we don't agree with.  

It's frustrating to be in the same spot

Not to but into your convo but I was like that for quite a few QBs and don't think it's hypocritical to no longer have faith in a big improvement by a QB during offseason as much as it's... just being beaten down by reality.  

Just seems like with the vast majority what you see is what you get. Only a select few make any big turnaround given more time.

Thorne is Auburns QB so obviously I WANT him to improve a ton. But it's a lot like if I go buy a lotto ticket right now.

I WANT to win 500M but I don't expect it.

[Gowebb11 9,424]

PT needs to return to form. The guy had a lot of success at MSU. A lot of his critics are judging him entirely on one rough season with an Auburn team transitioning personnel, coaches, and culture, but there’s a bigger body of work to assess him on. It’s fair to criticize him and he must perform better next season. But he has proven he can do the job at a pretty high level. I think Hugh believes he can get him back to where he was. 

[autan 753]

If PT had been here in the spring it could have made the difference in a couple of the close games. Who knows?

[woodford 3,676]

This was tweeted from CFBNumbers, highly recco if you're into this stuff. Interesting analysis to see the correlation between the pressure to getting sacked and Success Rates on Dropbacks while being pressured. So, if you get pressured, how do you perform?

Here's the tweet: "Paired pressure to sack rate with success rate on pressured dropbacks to see if avoiding sacks meant throwing the ball away/-EPA plays or successful plays. Bo Nix was rarely pressured but when he was he was elite at mitigating it"

So top right shows Bo Nix had Pressure to Sack rate below 10% and his Dropback Success Rate While Pressured was well above 40%. Youn will see Payton Thorne is sort of the opposite as he's down in the bottom left-hand quartile. He was pressured to sack on over 30% of his drop backs and when he was pressured, he had a success rate slightly over 20%. So, Payton was pressured a lot and when he was pressured, he wasn't able to contribute to success plays.

This could mean a few things like the OL had issues at time handling penetration or PT could not escape pressure. I know we saw many times where PT would stay inside a collapsed pocket and not escape it. That seemed to be earlier in the season but it happened throughtout IIRC.

Most of these QB's are clustered together. Nix is really the only elite positive outlier here.

 

[Mikey 16,777]

10 minutes ago, woodford said:

This was tweeted from CFBNumbers, highly recco if you're into this stuff. Interesting analysis to see the correlation between the pressure to getting sacked and Success Rates on Dropbacks while being pressured. So, if you get pressured, how do you perform?

Shhhhh! There are still a person (persons?) here who say Nix is no good and only started because of who his dad was.

[Gowebb11 9,424]

26 minutes ago, woodford said:

This was tweeted from CFBNumbers, highly recco if you're into this stuff. Interesting analysis to see the correlation between the pressure to getting sacked and Success Rates on Dropbacks while being pressured. So, if you get pressured, how do you perform?

Here's the tweet: "Paired pressure to sack rate with success rate on pressured dropbacks to see if avoiding sacks meant throwing the ball away/-EPA plays or successful plays. Bo Nix was rarely pressured but when he was he was elite at mitigating it"

So top right shows Bo Nix had Pressure to Sack rate below 10% and his Dropback Success Rate While Pressured was well above 40%. Youn will see Payton Thorne is sort of the opposite as he's down in the bottom left-hand quartile. He was pressured to sack on over 30% of his drop backs and when he was pressured, he had a success rate slightly over 20%. So, Payton was pressured a lot and when he was pressured, he wasn't able to contribute to success plays.

This could mean a few things like the OL had issues at time handling penetration or PT could not escape pressure. I know we saw many times where PT would stay inside a collapsed pocket and not escape it. That seemed to be earlier in the season but it happened throughtout IIRC.

Most of these QB's are clustered together. Nix is really the only elite positive outlier here.

 

Thanks for sharing this. I would add, PT was sacked 28 times this past season. While at MSU, he was sacked far less (21 times in 2021 and 18 times in 2022). Interesting because he attempted 150 more passes each of those seasons than he did at AU this year. It has been a long time since we have been really good at protecting our QBs. 

[fishepa 1,911]

Just now, Gowebb11 said:

Thanks for sharing this. I would add, PT was sacked 28 times this past season. While at MSU, he was sacked far less (21 times in 2021 and 18 times in 2022). Interesting because he attempted 150 more passes each of those seasons than he did at AU this year. It has been a long time since we have been really good at protecting our QBs. 

For sure.  Just from watching Auburn games it seems to me the QB has about literally 2 seconds max to make a decision before getting pressured on just about every play.  Meanwhile Milroe had 5-7 seconds on many attempts against us.  I don't watch their other games so not sure what that looks like.

[W.E.D 11,070]

44 minutes ago, woodford said:

This was tweeted from CFBNumbers, highly recco if you're into this stuff. Interesting analysis to see the correlation between the pressure to getting sacked and Success Rates on Dropbacks while being pressured. So, if you get pressured, how do you perform?

Here's the tweet: "Paired pressure to sack rate with success rate on pressured dropbacks to see if avoiding sacks meant throwing the ball away/-EPA plays or successful plays. Bo Nix was rarely pressured but when he was he was elite at mitigating it"

So top right shows Bo Nix had Pressure to Sack rate below 10% and his Dropback Success Rate While Pressured was well above 40%. Youn will see Payton Thorne is sort of the opposite as he's down in the bottom left-hand quartile. He was pressured to sack on over 30% of his drop backs and when he was pressured, he had a success rate slightly over 20%. So, Payton was pressured a lot and when he was pressured, he wasn't able to contribute to success plays.

This could mean a few things like the OL had issues at time handling penetration or PT could not escape pressure. I know we saw many times where PT would stay inside a collapsed pocket and not escape it. That seemed to be earlier in the season but it happened throughtout IIRC.

Most of these QB's are clustered together. Nix is really the only elite positive outlier here.

 

This is a negative on Thorne.  He took a lot of bad sacks.  Milroe did too and you see him down below the average too.  He negated that b/c he can push the ball down field

[LPTiger 5,202]

@woodford if Bo Nix wins the Heisman, in his acceptance speech, he needs to thank Auburn for allowing him to learn how to escape pressure...  Lord knows we gave him a lot of practice.

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Shhhhh! There are still a person (persons?) here who say Nix is no good and only started because of who his dad was.

Who?

[VicTree 143]

Looks like we should have put pressure on Milroe on 4th and forever.  Who woulda thunk?

[cbo 7,966]

2 hours ago, LPTiger said:

@woodford if Bo Nix wins the Heisman, in his acceptance speech, he needs to thank Auburn for allowing him to learn how to escape pressure...  Lord knows we gave him a lot of practice.

Of all his miraculous escapes (see LSU game), his greatest of all was escaping Bryan Harsin.