Driving while black

[homersapien 11,377]

Well then you should also understand how that can be aggravating, especially if this is the third or fourth time but then there's the chance of getting shot because you are "angry" and a threat. You're a threat when you were minding your own business. But that's part of the game. It's a crap shoot you don't have control of, better just hope it's a good cop that pulls you over and hope for the best. Don't show any emotion, don't ask questions, do or don't make eye contact because either way you're screwed, give up your dignity, and you get to live another day to probably go through it again (if it's a bad cop)

Hell, a police officer isn't safe putting gas in his police cruiser!! You realize the VERY, VERY, VERY small percentage of deaths from arrest?? According to FBI stats, 461 died during arrest or while in custody in 2013. Now 9,014,635 were arrested in 2013. So, 0.00005114 or 0.005114 % of ALL arrests resulted in a death. I would bet a lot of those are while affecting an arrest or while suspect is actively resisting, and Federal or state LE agency rules it justifiable. In comparison, there were 49,851 LEOs killed or assaulted in 2013, total LEO population of 533,895 officers, or 9.3% of LEOs.

Yes, I know there are times when a death is not justifiable and flat out murder, i.e. the SC case, but the vast majority are justified. Just don't make it out like there is some raging epidemic happening when there is not. Bottom line is, ALL people, LEOs and citizens need to act right. More and better training is needed in LE, they do a lot, but so much more is needed. All the training can definitely help with an officers response, but it can never simulate what the real deal is like. The stress and fear of real life scenarios can't be adequately simulated, but the training can help officers learn tactics and techniques to possibly better handle the situation.

People need to do the right thing, if you're not involved in criminal activity then you won't have any worries, if you break a traffic law then own up to it and let the officer write it or not, arguing on the side of the road, no matter how right you might be, is not worth it. IF, big if, you are falsely arrested, you will have an opportunity for recourse.

I know there have been and probably are LEOs, even black ones, who racially profile, even in the backwoods, where the common meth head is not black. When I policed, if it was 2 or 3 am and a car of white kids, I'd look for a traffic violation to stop them, i judged on time and location as much as anything. I think most officers do the same, they KNOW the crime trends in their areas, they KNOW the criminals in their areas, they KNOW the drug dealers, the burglars, the sex offenders, and they watch for them too. I don't believe any officer starts off his/her shift out looking to hurt or kill anyone.

The biggest problem needs to be how to address the violence in America's poorest communities. LEAs are grossly under funded and even more understaffed than ever. I think a lot of this translates to the thread about Carson's article about poverty and education. There is significant link b/t those things and crime, and not just in the poor black communities. There is a cataclysm of many factors that leads to unnecessary and unwanted violence everywhere.

I realize it's unintentional but that really comes across as some sort of excuse for the unethical behavior of a few cops.

First, no one has ever suggested there is a "raging epidemic happening". In fact I expect it's just the opposite. I suspect such behavior occurs much less frequency now than it has in the past. It's certainly not a new thing. But that doesn't mean it's non-existent. And probably such incidents get more attention now due to media.

And no one suggests LEO don't have a demanding and occasionally dangerous job. But you can't justify police abuse on the basis of statistics. Measure it maybe, but not justify it.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

[Weegle777 78]

There is no point to it PT.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Good, then I didn't miss anything worthwhile

[japantiger 4,051]

Well then you should also understand how that can be aggravating, especially if this is the third or fourth time but then there's the chance of getting shot because you are "angry" and a threat. You're a threat when you were minding your own business. But that's part of the game. It's a crap shoot you don't have control of, better just hope it's a good cop that pulls you over and hope for the best. Don't show any emotion, don't ask questions, do or don't make eye contact because either way you're screwed, give up your dignity, and you get to live another day to probably go through it again (if it's a bad cop)

Hell, a police officer isn't safe putting gas in his police cruiser!! You realize the VERY, VERY, VERY small percentage of deaths from arrest?? According to FBI stats, 461 died during arrest or while in custody in 2013. Now 9,014,635 were arrested in 2013. So, 0.00005114 or 0.005114 % of ALL arrests resulted in a death. I would bet a lot of those are while affecting an arrest or while suspect is actively resisting, and Federal or state LE agency rules it justifiable. In comparison, there were 49,851 LEOs killed or assaulted in 2013, total LEO population of 533,895 officers, or 9.3% of LEOs.

Yes, I know there are times when a death is not justifiable and flat out murder, i.e. the SC case, but the vast majority are justified. Just don't make it out like there is some raging epidemic happening when there is not. Bottom line is, ALL people, LEOs and citizens need to act right. More and better training is needed in LE, they do a lot, but so much more is needed. All the training can definitely help with an officers response, but it can never simulate what the real deal is like. The stress and fear of real life scenarios can't be adequately simulated, but the training can help officers learn tactics and techniques to possibly better handle the situation.

People need to do the right thing, if you're not involved in criminal activity then you won't have any worries, if you break a traffic law then own up to it and let the officer write it or not, arguing on the side of the road, no matter how right you might be, is not worth it. IF, big if, you are falsely arrested, you will have an opportunity for recourse.

I know there have been and probably are LEOs, even black ones, who racially profile, even in the backwoods, where the common meth head is not black. When I policed, if it was 2 or 3 am and a car of white kids, I'd look for a traffic violation to stop them, i judged on time and location as much as anything. I think most officers do the same, they KNOW the crime trends in their areas, they KNOW the criminals in their areas, they KNOW the drug dealers, the burglars, the sex offenders, and they watch for them too. I don't believe any officer starts off his/her shift out looking to hurt or kill anyone.

The biggest problem needs to be how to address the violence in America's poorest communities. LEAs are grossly under funded and even more understaffed than ever. I think a lot of this translates to the thread about Carson's article about poverty and education. There is significant link b/t those things and crime, and not just in the poor black communities. There is a cataclysm of many factors that leads to unnecessary and unwanted violence everywhere.

Too many facts and too logical...surprised this didn't get deleted...

[aubearcat 2,137]

The one area where you guys and most people absolutely fail with these threads where you, having never left your homes and families wondering if today will be the day that some thug idiot with an agenda will take your family's breadwinner away, is that you forget that these men and women are HUMAN BEINGS, that have every bit the capacity to mess up, do things wrong, have a bad day and treat someone badly, say the wrong thing, pass judgment too quickly, and behave in a bad manner just like YOU do, and you want to come home from your mundane, safe little 9-5 office job in your khakis and buttondown, driving your little car, and want to act like you know better than these guys on how to do their job while you peck away on your Macbook?

JUST STOP POSTING THESE IDIOTIC THREADS VILIFYING THE VERY PEOPLE WHO ALLOW YOU TO LIVE YOUR SAFE LITTLE LIVES BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE STONES TO DO WHAT THEY DO.

You guys don't have a clue what it's like to do what they do.

One cophugger nostrum that really needs to go away in order to save lives is the "just trying to make it to the end of their shift/ never know if I'll see muh wife agin/ do what I have to do to make it home" tripe. It is actively placing the lives of police officer and citizen alike in greater danger by making cops behave more on edge in spite of the fact that statistically it has NEVER BEEN SAFER to be a cop. Garbagemen, commercial fishermen, construction workers, extraction workers, truck drivers; each of these occupations are more dangerous and suffer from a higher number of injuries and deaths on the job than police officers, and that's without even taking into account that more cops die on the job due to heart attacks or car wrecks than from murder. None of those occupations have colored lines in their honor, none of them are unquestioningly held up as heroes by the "anti-cop"media, and none of them are allowed to cut corners nor are their on the job mistakes rubber stamped in their favor because they have tough jobs.

1787, the statistics you are using, while true, are misleading. I'm fairly certain that the trash the garbage men are collecting aren't trying to kill or hurt them during collection, other drivers, in most situations, aren't intentionally trying to hurt truck drivers, etc... I understand that you've had some personally bad experiences with the police. So have I. However, policemen do have occasions where the people they interact with, do try to hurt and kill the policeman. Is it often? Thankfully no, but because the death rate of other industries may be higher does not mean that job is inherently more dangerous.

[AUFAN78 3,906]

Well then you should also understand how that can be aggravating, especially if this is the third or fourth time but then there's the chance of getting shot because you are "angry" and a threat. You're a threat when you were minding your own business. But that's part of the game. It's a crap shoot you don't have control of, better just hope it's a good cop that pulls you over and hope for the best. Don't show any emotion, don't ask questions, do or don't make eye contact because either way you're screwed, give up your dignity, and you get to live another day to probably go through it again (if it's a bad cop)

Hell, a police officer isn't safe putting gas in his police cruiser!! You realize the VERY, VERY, VERY small percentage of deaths from arrest?? According to FBI stats, 461 died during arrest or while in custody in 2013. Now 9,014,635 were arrested in 2013. So, 0.00005114 or 0.005114 % of ALL arrests resulted in a death. I would bet a lot of those are while affecting an arrest or while suspect is actively resisting, and Federal or state LE agency rules it justifiable. In comparison, there were 49,851 LEOs killed or assaulted in 2013, total LEO population of 533,895 officers, or 9.3% of LEOs.

Yes, I know there are times when a death is not justifiable and flat out murder, i.e. the SC case, but the vast majority are justified. Just don't make it out like there is some raging epidemic happening when there is not. Bottom line is, ALL people, LEOs and citizens need to act right. More and better training is needed in LE, they do a lot, but so much more is needed. All the training can definitely help with an officers response, but it can never simulate what the real deal is like. The stress and fear of real life scenarios can't be adequately simulated, but the training can help officers learn tactics and techniques to possibly better handle the situation.

People need to do the right thing, if you're not involved in criminal activity then you won't have any worries, if you break a traffic law then own up to it and let the officer write it or not, arguing on the side of the road, no matter how right you might be, is not worth it. IF, big if, you are falsely arrested, you will have an opportunity for recourse.

I know there have been and probably are LEOs, even black ones, who racially profile, even in the backwoods, where the common meth head is not black. When I policed, if it was 2 or 3 am and a car of white kids, I'd look for a traffic violation to stop them, i judged on time and location as much as anything. I think most officers do the same, they KNOW the crime trends in their areas, they KNOW the criminals in their areas, they KNOW the drug dealers, the burglars, the sex offenders, and they watch for them too. I don't believe any officer starts off his/her shift out looking to hurt or kill anyone.

The biggest problem needs to be how to address the violence in America's poorest communities. LEAs are grossly under funded and even more understaffed than ever. I think a lot of this translates to the thread about Carson's article about poverty and education. There is significant link b/t those things and crime, and not just in the poor black communities. There is a cataclysm of many factors that leads to unnecessary and unwanted violence everywhere.

Too many facts and too logical...surprised this didn't get deleted...

Deleted? No. Distorted?

[tgr4lfe 220]

Well then you should also understand how that can be aggravating, especially if this is the third or fourth time but then there's the chance of getting shot because you are "angry" and a threat. You're a threat when you were minding your own business. But that's part of the game. It's a crap shoot you don't have control of, better just hope it's a good cop that pulls you over and hope for the best. Don't show any emotion, don't ask questions, do or don't make eye contact because either way you're screwed, give up your dignity, and you get to live another day to probably go through it again (if it's a bad cop)

Hell, a police officer isn't safe putting gas in his police cruiser!! You realize the VERY, VERY, VERY small percentage of deaths from arrest?? According to FBI stats, 461 died during arrest or while in custody in 2013. Now 9,014,635 were arrested in 2013. So, 0.00005114 or 0.005114 % of ALL arrests resulted in a death. I would bet a lot of those are while affecting an arrest or while suspect is actively resisting, and Federal or state LE agency rules it justifiable. In comparison, there were 49,851 LEOs killed or assaulted in 2013, total LEO population of 533,895 officers, or 9.3% of LEOs.

Yes, I know there are times when a death is not justifiable and flat out murder, i.e. the SC case, but the vast majority are justified. Just don't make it out like there is some raging epidemic happening when there is not. Bottom line is, ALL people, LEOs and citizens need to act right. More and better training is needed in LE, they do a lot, but so much more is needed. All the training can definitely help with an officers response, but it can never simulate what the real deal is like. The stress and fear of real life scenarios can't be adequately simulated, but the training can help officers learn tactics and techniques to possibly better handle the situation.

People need to do the right thing, if you're not involved in criminal activity then you won't have any worries, if you break a traffic law then own up to it and let the officer write it or not, arguing on the side of the road, no matter how right you might be, is not worth it. IF, big if, you are falsely arrested, you will have an opportunity for recourse.

I know there have been and probably are LEOs, even black ones, who racially profile, even in the backwoods, where the common meth head is not black. When I policed, if it was 2 or 3 am and a car of white kids, I'd look for a traffic violation to stop them, i judged on time and location as much as anything. I think most officers do the same, they KNOW the crime trends in their areas, they KNOW the criminals in their areas, they KNOW the drug dealers, the burglars, the sex offenders, and they watch for them too. I don't believe any officer starts off his/her shift out looking to hurt or kill anyone.

The biggest problem needs to be how to address the violence in America's poorest communities. LEAs are grossly under funded and even more understaffed than ever. I think a lot of this translates to the thread about Carson's article about poverty and education. There is significant link b/t those things and crime, and not just in the poor black communities. There is a cataclysm of many factors that leads to unnecessary and unwanted violence everywhere.

I realize it's unintentional but that really comes across as some sort of excuse for the unethical behavior of a few cops.

First, no one has ever suggested there is a "raging epidemic happening". In fact I expect it's just the opposite. I suspect such behavior occurs much less frequency now than it has in the past. It's certainly not a new thing. But that doesn't mean it's non-existent. And probably such incidents get more attention now due to media.

And no one suggests LEO don't have a demanding and occasionally dangerous job. But you can't justify police abuse on the basis of statistics. Measure it maybe, but not justify it.

Nothing in there at making excuses or justifying "police abuse", what I'm saying is "police abuse" happens MUCH less than some on here and the media and others make it out to be. Yes, today's media and social media make things much worse and construe incidents out of context WAY before all the facts are known, but it doesn't stop some from spewing off at the mouth with false statements or false mantras to rally around. It doesn't even matter if the subject was in the act of committing a felony and tried to shot police, they still rant and rave, ignoring the fact of a 9 year old girl innocently shot while in her grandma's house.

I'm not justifying "police abuse" but rather showing what the stats show, that contrary to what the liberal media and special interests groups tell everyone, that a VERY small percentage of people die during arrest or while in custody.

I KNOW that there are "bad cops", if they mess up, or a good cop makes a mistake they should be punished. The mantra of lumping all police into the bad apple cart is just as wrong as officer lumping all black males into a negative light.

My point was tied into Carson's article, the original OP, that lack of education and poverty are tied into violence.

[JoeBags7277 734]

Well then you should also understand how that can be aggravating, especially if this is the third or fourth time but then there's the chance of getting shot because you are "angry" and a threat. You're a threat when you were minding your own business. But that's part of the game. It's a crap shoot you don't have control of, better just hope it's a good cop that pulls you over and hope for the best. Don't show any emotion, don't ask questions, do or don't make eye contact because either way you're screwed, give up your dignity, and you get to live another day to probably go through it again (if it's a bad cop)

People need to do the right thing, if you're not involved in criminal activity then you won't have any worries, if you break a traffic law then own up to it and let the officer write it or not, arguing on the side of the road, no matter how right you might be, is not worth it. IF, big if, you are falsely arrested, you will have an opportunity for recourse.

Demonstrably and laughably false.

[cole256 17,083]

Funny thing about it is I myself speak from MY experiences with the police. You can't tell me what happens to me is far less no matter what statistics you bring up. That's what's funny to me though, I'm a minority. I'm telling you what has happened to me so far and I'm young but who really listens?? Nobody on this forum has lumped policemen together. Nobody on this forum talked down on a policeman who was shot at. You talk about a particular case and this is what you get. How is a video is taken out of context?

A cell phone video has more integrity than anything because face it bad cops will edit videos or erase them all together. I'm ALWAYS going to want to know what happened and why. It may be a small few and far between number to you but if it can possibly be my life that's a risk I don't like. I'm sure the number is low of probability that someone would break in my house and attack me, that doesn't mean I don't take precautions for it...

[JoeBags7277 734]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

But an isolated case of a cop buying a loaf of bread for a broke mother would be worthy of a 10 page thread in your eyes...

That's what you guys will never understand about folks like Cole and I. Its not isolated anymore when YOU OR YOUR FAMILY is the one in the crosshairs, the "statistic." You can talk about how isolated police brutality/ color of law crime is until you're blue in the face. There are real people affected by it, and we don't have to wait until the situation reaches "epidemic" proportions (whatever your subjective definition may be) before we do something about it.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

But an isolated case of a cop buying a loaf of bread for a broke mother would be worthy of a 10 page thread in your eyes...

That's what you guys will never understand about folks like Cole and I. Its not isolated anymore when YOU OR YOUR FAMILY is the one in the crosshairs, the "statistic." You can talk about how isolated police brutality/ color of law crime is until you're blue in the face. There are real people affected by it, and we don't have to wait until the situation reaches "epidemic" proportions (whatever your subjective definition may be) before we do something about it.

You are right and we agree....I will never understand guys like you and cole.

[cooltigger21 0]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

But an isolated case of a cop buying a loaf of bread for a broke mother would be worthy of a 10 page thread in your eyes...

That's what you guys will never understand about folks like Cole and I. Its not isolated anymore when YOU OR YOUR FAMILY is the one in the crosshairs, the "statistic." You can talk about how isolated police brutality/ color of law crime is until you're blue in the face. There are real people affected by it, and we don't have to wait until the situation reaches "epidemic" proportions (whatever your subjective definition may be) before we do something about it.

we get it. You and Cole hate cops.

[homersapien 11,377]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

But an isolated case of a cop buying a loaf of bread for a broke mother would be worthy of a 10 page thread in your eyes...

That's what you guys will never understand about folks like Cole and I. Its not isolated anymore when YOU OR YOUR FAMILY is the one in the crosshairs, the "statistic." You can talk about how isolated police brutality/ color of law crime is until you're blue in the face. There are real people affected by it, and we don't have to wait until the situation reaches "epidemic" proportions (whatever your subjective definition may be) before we do something about it.

You are right and we agree....I will never understand guys like you and cole.

You don't have the imagination for it.

[Weegle777 78]

This is the fourteenth thread talking about this crap.

[homersapien 11,377]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

But an isolated case of a cop buying a loaf of bread for a broke mother would be worthy of a 10 page thread in your eyes...

That's what you guys will never understand about folks like Cole and I. Its not isolated anymore when YOU OR YOUR FAMILY is the one in the crosshairs, the "statistic." You can talk about how isolated police brutality/ color of law crime is until you're blue in the face. There are real people affected by it, and we don't have to wait until the situation reaches "epidemic" proportions (whatever your subjective definition may be) before we do something about it.

we get it. You and Cole hate cops.

Congratulations Tigger. You've reached a new low.

[Weegle777 78]

I do find it odd though, that the potus came out and made a public statement on a known criminal but refuses to even acknowledge the Sheriff from Texas who was killed by an absolute COWARD who didn't even have the stones to face the guy when he shot him.

[homersapien 11,377]

I do find it odd though, that the potus came out and made a public statement on a known criminal but refuses to even acknowledge the Sheriff from Texas who was killed by an absolute COWARD who didn't even have the stones to face the guy when he shot him.

HOUSTON (AP) — A man charged with murder in the ambush of a suburban Houston sheriff's deputy had a history of mental illness and was once declared mentally incompetent, according to authorities and his former attorney....

President Barack Obama on Monday said Goforth's killing was contemptible and "an affront to civilized society." Obama spoke with Goforth's wife, Kathleen, conveying his condolences and telling her he will keep highlighting the uncommon bravery of police officers.

http://www.huffingto...4b0aec9f3545d96

[cole256 17,083]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

But an isolated case of a cop buying a loaf of bread for a broke mother would be worthy of a 10 page thread in your eyes...

That's what you guys will never understand about folks like Cole and I. Its not isolated anymore when YOU OR YOUR FAMILY is the one in the crosshairs, the "statistic." You can talk about how isolated police brutality/ color of law crime is until you're blue in the face. There are real people affected by it, and we don't have to wait until the situation reaches "epidemic" proportions (whatever your subjective definition may be) before we do something about it.

we get it. You and Cole hate cops.

Not at all, I'm just not a so what if a couple of people are killed look at the numbers guy. Or a nothing I have to worry about so I don't care guy either. Guess I can't be like you

[cole256 17,083]

This is the fourteenth thread talking about this crap.

I know man, you know what makes that sad? It means it's like the fourteenth time a policeman has stomped on a person's rights are maybe even them literally.....I tell you what we need though, how bout another I hate Obama thread!!!

[Weegle777 78]

I do find it odd though, that the potus came out and made a public statement on a known criminal but refuses to even acknowledge the Sheriff from Texas who was killed by an absolute COWARD who didn't even have the stones to face the guy when he shot him.

HOUSTON (AP) — A man charged with murder in the ambush of a suburban Houston sheriff's deputy had a history of mental illness and was once declared mentally incompetent, according to authorities and his former attorney....

President Barack Obama on Monday said Goforth's killing was contemptible and "an affront to civilized society." Obama spoke with Goforth's wife, Kathleen, conveying his condolences and telling her he will keep highlighting the uncommon bravery of police officers.

http://www.huffingto...4b0aec9f3545d96

Oh well good for him. I stay away from news channels so I never saw that. Thanks!

[tgr4lfe 220]

Funny thing about it is I myself speak from MY experiences with the police. You can't tell me what happens to me is far less no matter what statistics you bring up. That's what's funny to me though, I'm a minority. I'm telling you what has happened to me so far and I'm young but who really listens?? Nobody on this forum has lumped policemen together. Nobody on this forum talked down on a policeman who was shot at. You talk about a particular case and this is what you get. How is a video is taken out of context?

A cell phone video has more integrity than anything because face it bad cops will edit videos or erase them all together. I'm ALWAYS going to want to know what happened and why. It may be a small few and far between number to you but if it can possibly be my life that's a risk I don't like. I'm sure the number is low of probability that someone would break in my house and attack me, that doesn't mean I don't take precautions for it...

I'm not denouncing or demeaning anything you've been through. I've said my peace about bad and good cops, and YES those on here do make leaping generalizations about LE as a whole.

No one has talked down about a LEO shot, but definitely not sympathizing. You don't think the cell phone videos of countless "police encounters" has not been doctored?? The supposed pic of the LEO "smiling" was nothing more than a well timed snap shot from a lengthier video at a point where that LEO along with others were pulling a man they were arresting away from an area where bottles were being flung. The point at which this still shot was taken the LEO was lifting the man. It was doctored and taken at a point so it looked like he was smiling. The media and others take the video out of context, doctor it, edit it all the time with no ramifications. If LEO does it to cover up something they should be punished. The truth always comes out. My biggest problem is how LEO are IMMEDIATELY condemned when the entire story is not out. IF they did something wrong then they will/should be punished, but if the officer didn't and was justified in his use of force, and have had their life and career obliterated b/c of some people who just want to bash LEO just for the sake of bashing, then that is just as wrong, but what recourse does that LEO have at that point.

[tgr4lfe 220]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

But an isolated case of a cop buying a loaf of bread for a broke mother would be worthy of a 10 page thread in your eyes...

That's what you guys will never understand about folks like Cole and I. Its not isolated anymore when YOU OR YOUR FAMILY is the one in the crosshairs, the "statistic." You can talk about how isolated police brutality/ color of law crime is until you're blue in the face. There are real people affected by it, and we don't have to wait until the situation reaches "epidemic" proportions (whatever your subjective definition may be) before we do something about it.

we get it. You and Cole hate cops.

Not at all, I'm just not a so what if a couple of people are killed look at the numbers guy. Or a nothing I have to worry about so I don't care guy either. Guess I can't be like you

Something's wrong then? IF you are so outraged by those dying during arrest or in custody, then i guess your head is about to explode over black on black violence? 461 (mostly justified) compared to over 6,000

Look, I get it, you've been done wrong by some LEOs and you are skeptical. I'm not a what if a couple of people are killed b/c numbers are low, I'm a don't make a mountain out of mole hill type guy. Life matters, whether it is a young black male, a veteran police officer, a small child just spending time with grandma, or whoever else.

Wrong is wrong, criminal act is a criminal act, I can't relate to what you have experienced, no more than you can relate to what I experienced as a police officer, but I will do my best to understand where you are coming from. Having been on the other side from and worked with men and women in LE, I can honestly say that 98-99% of them are good, honest people trying to do the best job they can. Most become jaded, most suffer from continual PTSD (highest divorce rate in America and highest suicide rate), most truly want to make a difference in society. Yes, there are some who are bad, even crooked, taking part of criminal acts. I don't believe that any officer goes out on patrol thinking about shooting someone, most don't want to have to fire their weapon. Look at the video of the black police officer who shoots the older white guy, that officer broke down crying and I think the old guy was unarmed or I'm confusing stories and merging them. When I was policing, if I saw a car of white kids in the wrong area, I would look for a traffic violation to stop them to investigate further why they are in that area. I've always been more interested in the underlying reasons for crime, and repeated activity, nowadays almost always connected to drugs, stealing to get money to buy or trade, but there are those few possibly doing it b/c of poverty, need for money, then those doing it for the thrill, i.e. gang ties to prove themselves. Just seems like society is going to hell. The racial fighting has gotten out of control and to the detriment of society causing tension. Plenty of blame to go around. It frustrates me to see LE immediately thrown under the bus when the facts aren't there and crucified in the media and court of public opinion, just like it frustrates you to feel scrutinized if stopped while out late or something.

Happy to talk with you via PM, but I'm done on here.

[autigeremt 6,633]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

But an isolated case of a cop buying a loaf of bread for a broke mother would be worthy of a 10 page thread in your eyes...

That's what you guys will never understand about folks like Cole and I. Its not isolated anymore when YOU OR YOUR FAMILY is the one in the crosshairs, the "statistic." You can talk about how isolated police brutality/ color of law crime is until you're blue in the face. There are real people affected by it, and we don't have to wait until the situation reaches "epidemic" proportions (whatever your subjective definition may be) before we do something about it.

we get it. You and Cole hate cops.

Not at all, I'm just not a so what if a couple of people are killed look at the numbers guy. Or a nothing I have to worry about so I don't care guy either. Guess I can't be like you

Something's wrong then? IF you are so outraged by those dying during arrest or in custody, then i guess your head is about to explode over black on black violence? 461 (mostly justified) compared to over 6,000

Look, I get it, you've been done wrong by some LEOs and you are skeptical. I'm not a what if a couple of people are killed b/c numbers are low, I'm a don't make a mountain out of mole hill type guy. Life matters, whether it is a young black male, a veteran police officer, a small child just spending time with grandma, or whoever else.

Wrong is wrong, criminal act is a criminal act, I can't relate to what you have experienced, no more than you can relate to what I experienced as a police officer, but I will do my best to understand where you are coming from. Having been on the other side from and worked with men and women in LE, I can honestly say that 98-99% of them are good, honest people trying to do the best job they can. Most become jaded, most suffer from continual PTSD (highest divorce rate in America and highest suicide rate), most truly want to make a difference in society. Yes, there are some who are bad, even crooked, taking part of criminal acts. I don't believe that any officer goes out on patrol thinking about shooting someone, most don't want to have to fire their weapon. Look at the video of the black police officer who shoots the older white guy, that officer broke down crying and I think the old guy was unarmed or I'm confusing stories and merging them. When I was policing, if I saw a car of white kids in the wrong area, I would look for a traffic violation to stop them to investigate further why they are in that area. I've always been more interested in the underlying reasons for crime, and repeated activity, nowadays almost always connected to drugs, stealing to get money to buy or trade, but there are those few possibly doing it b/c of poverty, need for money, then those doing it for the thrill, i.e. gang ties to prove themselves. Just seems like society is going to hell. The racial fighting has gotten out of control and to the detriment of society causing tension. Plenty of blame to go around. It frustrates me to see LE immediately thrown under the bus when the facts aren't there and crucified in the media and court of public opinion, just like it frustrates you to feel scrutinized if stopped while out late or something.

Happy to talk with you via PM, but I'm done on here.

:starorange: :starorange:

[icanthearyou 4,463]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. If I want to find an isolated case for amost anything controversial it's usually pretty easy to do.

But an isolated case of a cop buying a loaf of bread for a broke mother would be worthy of a 10 page thread in your eyes...

That's what you guys will never understand about folks like Cole and I. Its not isolated anymore when YOU OR YOUR FAMILY is the one in the crosshairs, the "statistic." You can talk about how isolated police brutality/ color of law crime is until you're blue in the face. There are real people affected by it, and we don't have to wait until the situation reaches "epidemic" proportions (whatever your subjective definition may be) before we do something about it.

we get it. You and Cole hate cops.

Not at all, I'm just not a so what if a couple of people are killed look at the numbers guy. Or a nothing I have to worry about so I don't care guy either. Guess I can't be like you

Something's wrong then? IF you are so outraged by those dying during arrest or in custody, then i guess your head is about to explode over black on black violence? 461 (mostly justified) compared to over 6,000

Look, I get it, you've been done wrong by some LEOs and you are skeptical. I'm not a what if a couple of people are killed b/c numbers are low, I'm a don't make a mountain out of mole hill type guy. Life matters, whether it is a young black male, a veteran police officer, a small child just spending time with grandma, or whoever else.

Wrong is wrong, criminal act is a criminal act, I can't relate to what you have experienced, no more than you can relate to what I experienced as a police officer, but I will do my best to understand where you are coming from. Having been on the other side from and worked with men and women in LE, I can honestly say that 98-99% of them are good, honest people trying to do the best job they can. Most become jaded, most suffer from continual PTSD (highest divorce rate in America and highest suicide rate), most truly want to make a difference in society. Yes, there are some who are bad, even crooked, taking part of criminal acts. I don't believe that any officer goes out on patrol thinking about shooting someone, most don't want to have to fire their weapon. Look at the video of the black police officer who shoots the older white guy, that officer broke down crying and I think the old guy was unarmed or I'm confusing stories and merging them. When I was policing, if I saw a car of white kids in the wrong area, I would look for a traffic violation to stop them to investigate further why they are in that area. I've always been more interested in the underlying reasons for crime, and repeated activity, nowadays almost always connected to drugs, stealing to get money to buy or trade, but there are those few possibly doing it b/c of poverty, need for money, then those doing it for the thrill, i.e. gang ties to prove themselves. Just seems like society is going to hell. The racial fighting has gotten out of control and to the detriment of society causing tension. Plenty of blame to go around. It frustrates me to see LE immediately thrown under the bus when the facts aren't there and crucified in the media and court of public opinion, just like it frustrates you to feel scrutinized if stopped while out late or something.

Happy to talk with you via PM, but I'm done on here.

Should we not expect more from those who are charged with upholding the law?

To my knowledge, no one is indicting ALL police officers.

Is it fair to say that police departments in some areas of the south have been sympathetic to white supremacists in their ranks (recent stories from Alabama and Florida)?

I think your entire post is an attempt to distort the views of others and, distract attention from a genuine problem.

I appreciate you attempting to defend the police. However, not at the expense of undermining the integrity of the majority of good police officers by minimizing the actions of those who should be allowed to represent the citizenry.