Roc Thomas transferring to JSU

[80Tiger 899]

Guys, if this is true, then this is just bad. Yes, I know he hasn't performed the way we wanted yet, but the kid is a talent and can be successful in the SEC. This really leaves us thin at RB. But worse than anything, this is a 5 star player that is leaving along with 11 others that have left. This is the same kind of thing that happened during the end of the Chizik era. I really, really hope that Gus is not losing this team.

But, if it is any consolation, we still have Rhett Lashlee. :gofig:/>

This one isn't on Gus. Putting Roc into the slot more was the best way to utilize Roc. Best for his future in the NFL and in big time college ball. Roc wants to be the man. And his high school coach is now at JSU and has been in Roc's ear for over a year trying to get Roc to transfer. Moving Roc more to the slot was the right call. Gus did nothing wrong here. All on Roc not wanting to move over from the RB position.

I heard differently...

Apparently, Roc was open to playing anywhere on the field... he just wanted the ball in his hands.

That's what Gus was telling him as well. The plan was to work him into a more productive role. Gus had all spring to show what he wanted out of Roc (after convincing him to stay). It didn't happen! His role in the A-Day game was about the same as his role in practice... non exhistant.

So, Roc obviously doesn't trust Gus when he says he's gonna find a way to get him the ball.

Oh well...

Y'all can try to put this all on Roc, but this is on Gus, too...

I agree with this and mentioned it in the Irvin thread. I do think Gus has some blame b/c this new role for Roc should've been put into action last year at some point. It wouldn't have been a difficult adjustment b/c we were already running some of those plays just with a different player -- Ricardo. I felt like some of those touches should've been touches for Roc but we were so stuck on running them with Ricardo. I don't think Roc would've had a problem with the role if he saw some touches last year b/c he'd know his role would likely increase in it this coming season. I do think Roc may be a bit stubborn but i agree that this is on Gus as well b/c he was never utilized correctly.

Well with Ricardo in the game the D has no tip off between pass and run. I think if you start putting Roc in the game in place of Ricardo the D would be focusing on the run to Roc; especially when the likelihood of the QB keeping the ball on a potential fake was non existent.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

Guys, if this is true, then this is just bad. Yes, I know he hasn't performed the way we wanted yet, but the kid is a talent and can be successful in the SEC. This really leaves us thin at RB. But worse than anything, this is a 5 star player that is leaving along with 11 others that have left. This is the same kind of thing that happened during the end of the Chizik era. I really, really hope that Gus is not losing this team.

But, if it is any consolation, we still have Rhett Lashlee. :gofig:/>

This one isn't on Gus. Putting Roc into the slot more was the best way to utilize Roc. Best for his future in the NFL and in big time college ball. Roc wants to be the man. And his high school coach is now at JSU and has been in Roc's ear for over a year trying to get Roc to transfer. Moving Roc more to the slot was the right call. Gus did nothing wrong here. All on Roc not wanting to move over from the RB position.

I heard differently...

Apparently, Roc was open to playing anywhere on the field... he just wanted the ball in his hands.

That's what Gus was telling him as well. The plan was to work him into a more productive role. Gus had all spring to show what he wanted out of Roc (after convincing him to stay). It didn't happen! His role in the A-Day game was about the same as his role in practice... non exhistant.

So, Roc obviously doesn't trust Gus when he says he's gonna find a way to get him the ball.

Oh well...

Y'all can try to put this all on Roc, but this is on Gus, too...

I agree with this and mentioned it in the Irvin thread. I do think Gus has some blame b/c this new role for Roc should've been put into action last year at some point. It wouldn't have been a difficult adjustment b/c we were already running some of those plays just with a different player -- Ricardo. I felt like some of those touches should've been touches for Roc but we were so stuck on running them with Ricardo. I don't think Roc would've had a problem with the role if he saw some touches last year b/c he'd know his role would likely increase in it this coming season. I do think Roc may be a bit stubborn but i agree that this is on Gus as well b/c he was never utilized correctly.

Well with Ricardo in the game the D has no tip off between pass and run. I think if you start putting Roc in the game in place of Ricardo the D would be focusing on the run to Roc; especially when the likelihood of the QB keeping the ball on a potential fake was non existent.

Not in replace of Ricardo just add in Roc. Just saying i think Roc would've been more effective running some of those plays but wasn't looking to replace Ricardo on the field.

[aujeff11 6,243]

If that was a promise made to a player that was either not mentally prepared or woefully inadequate in the Football IQ department, then that IS on the coaches.

He hadn't shown anything up to that point that would indicate such a brainfart was forthcoming. And they teach players from junior high age on up to jump on a loose ball just in case, particularly on laterals and passes in the flat.

Yes he had shown a knack to make mistakes. He had at least 3 fumbles, losing two in the short amount of carries that he had in 2014.These fumbles other than the big one were late in the game though.

The question is, would Gus have played Roc against Bama if there was no recruiting promise? If he wouldn't have, then yes, the fumble is on the coaches. And I know that Gus wants his most trusted players in big games which leads me to doubt that Roc would've played.

[lutzcammed 469]

War damn, interesting, info. I wish I would have now that when it happened. Then again, I would have said a lot of words not suitable for the children around me.

[alexava 6,973]

If I was recruiting the premier in state 5* rb and it took the promise of ONE DAMN PLAY to land him, I would so absolutely do it. How folks are dumping this on Gus I don't know. I liked Roc over Barber too. It just didn't shake out. I still had hope it would eventually as a uniquely different position for him. Not much more we can add to this.

[steeleagle 2,945]

We do lose that one talent of RT...the ability to take it all the way to the EZ. No one on this team has that speed. We have Jovon and Miller as power backs, Petway and Cox as FBs who will now run some at TB too i think, and Kerryon J, who will be our quickest back, but i dont think has the speed of Roc to take it all the way on one carry.

But true Roc was not going to get many carries, but be the slot WR and swing back out of the backfield.

ANd i wouldnt doubt that his old high school HC, who is now the HC and Jax St told him he would be the feature back now. He will get more exposure..and hope he does well...

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

If that was a promise made to a player that was either not mentally prepared or woefully inadequate in the Football IQ department, then that IS on the coaches.

He hadn't shown anything up to that point that would indicate such a brainfart was forthcoming. And they teach players from junior high age on up to jump on a loose ball just in case, particularly on laterals and passes in the flat.

Yes he had shown a knack to make mistakes. He had at least 3 fumbles, losing two in the short amount of carries that he had in 2014.These fumbles other than the big one were late in the game though.

The question is, would Gus have played Roc against Bama if there was no recruiting promise? If he wouldn't have, then yes, the fumble is on the coaches. And I know that Gus wants his most trusted players in big games which leads me to doubt that Roc would've played.

No question Roc would have played in the uat game. Just don't think Roc would have got the first touch. Just a story I thought was interesting.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

If I was recruiting the premier in state 5* rb and it took the promise of ONE DAMN PLAY to land him, I would so absolutely do it. How folks are dumping this on Gus I don't know. I liked Roc over Barber too. It just didn't shake out. I still had hope it would eventually as a uniquely different position for him. Not much more we can add to this.

Seriously. He hadn't been spectacular, but that's a pretty low risk play. Simply pass in the flat to Roc to possible get him open in space. Cadillac played as a true freshman too. Do you think Carnell has a brainfart like that?

Look at the play again. The issue with Roc wasn't that he fumbled the lateral, it was that he didn't even really attempt to fall on the ball.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11955890

That is not on the coaches.

[aujeff11 6,243]

If I was recruiting the premier in state 5* rb and it took the promise of ONE DAMN PLAY to land him, I would so absolutely do it. How folks are dumping this on Gus I don't know. I liked Roc over Barber too. It just didn't shake out. I still had hope it would eventually as a uniquely different position for him. Not much more we can add to this.

I don't fault Gus for the promise. He can do it as much as he wants but when he does, and when the recruiting promise goes bad, it all leads back to Gus.

[aujeff11 6,243]

If I was recruiting the premier in state 5* rb and it took the promise of ONE DAMN PLAY to land him, I would so absolutely do it. How folks are dumping this on Gus I don't know. I liked Roc over Barber too. It just didn't shake out. I still had hope it would eventually as a uniquely different position for him. Not much more we can add to this.

Seriously. He hadn't been spectacular, but that's a pretty low risk play. Simply pass in the flat to Roc to possible get him open in space. Cadillac played as a true freshman too. Do you think Carnell has a brainfart like that?

Look at the play again. The issue with Roc wasn't that he fumbled the lateral, it was that he didn't even really attempt to fall on the ball.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11955890

That is not on the coaches.

Caddilac came in late and had less freshman mistakes too. There is a difference. Same with Dyer, he played pretty well. Roc had about 38 carries all season and three fumbles, two lost.

[tigeraddikt 1,611]

I always saw Roc as a clone of Cadillac. A bit undersized as a featured back, 5-star, had the moves, good speed, great vision. The difference in Cadillac producing and Roc not producing is the coaching philosophy and execution of the respective offenses. Cadillac played under Mazzone, Nallsminger, and Borges, all 3 OC's who were under the Tuberville directive to pound-pound-pound the ball. With big beefus O-lines and the COMMITMENT to feed him the ball 20-30 x per game when healthy, Cadillac ultimately flourished and set records. However, I believe the same commitment was not made to Roc because of Gus's HUNH system. I think Gus has been flummoxed big-time the last couple of years for a laundry list of reasons, and unfortunately, the lack of commitment to feature Roc has kinda been collateral damage to the flummoxiness.

Then again, maybe Roc has just been too injury prone and/or had too many turnovers to gain coaches' trust?? Either way, Godspeed Mr. Thomas! Stay healthy and clean up D1AA.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

If I was recruiting the premier in state 5* rb and it took the promise of ONE DAMN PLAY to land him, I would so absolutely do it. How folks are dumping this on Gus I don't know. I liked Roc over Barber too. It just didn't shake out. I still had hope it would eventually as a uniquely different position for him. Not much more we can add to this.

Seriously. He hadn't been spectacular, but that's a pretty low risk play. Simply pass in the flat to Roc to possible get him open in space. Cadillac played as a true freshman too. Do you think Carnell has a brainfart like that?

Look at the play again. The issue with Roc wasn't that he fumbled the lateral, it was that he didn't even really attempt to fall on the ball.

http://espn.go.com/v...lip?id=11955890

That is not on the coaches.

Caddilac came in late and had less freshman mistakes too. There is a difference. Same with Dyer, he played pretty well. Roc had about 38 carries all season and three fumbles, two lost.

There are mistakes and then there are MISTAKES.

A mistake is not moving the ball to your outside hand away from the defense. Or carrying it like a loaf of bread away from your body and getting it poked out. Or misreading your blocking assignment on a pass play.

This was a lack of game and field awareness and a lack of effort. Even if he'd lost the fumble anyway, he's not in the doghouse if he busts ass to jump on that ball.

[Tiger 8,827]

If I was recruiting the premier in state 5* rb and it took the promise of ONE DAMN PLAY to land him, I would so absolutely do it. How folks are dumping this on Gus I don't know. I liked Roc over Barber too. It just didn't shake out. I still had hope it would eventually as a uniquely different position for him. Not much more we can add to this.

Seriously. He hadn't been spectacular, but that's a pretty low risk play. Simply pass in the flat to Roc to possible get him open in space. Cadillac played as a true freshman too. Do you think Carnell has a brainfart like that?

Look at the play again. The issue with Roc wasn't that he fumbled the lateral, it was that he didn't even really attempt to fall on the ball.

http://espn.go.com/v...lip?id=11955890

That is not on the coaches.

Caddilac came in late and had less freshman mistakes too. There is a difference. Same with Dyer, he played pretty well. Roc had about 38 carries all season and three fumbles, two lost.

That is an alarmingly high fumble rate considering the small amount of touches he got IMO. I think losing Roc will be a huge hit actually. Moreso because it eliminates a weapon Gus needed to have his O running at full potential. Roc squirting free for a 20 yarder or more for a long TD is something Gus offenses need. If Gus starts calling too many plays in a row he starts to outsmart himself.

Does anyone think Truitt can possibly fill what Roc's role was supposed to be? Screens and sweeps?

[Tiger 8,827]

I always saw Roc as a clone of Cadillac. A bit undersized as a featured back, 5-star, had the moves, good speed, great vision. The difference in Cadillac producing and Roc not producing is the coaching philosophy and execution of the respective offenses. Cadillac played under Mazzone, Nallsminger, and Borges, all 3 OC's who were under the Tuberville directive to pound-pound-pound the ball. With big beefus O-lines and the COMMITMENT to feed him the ball 20-30 x per game when healthy, Cadillac ultimately flourished and set records. However, I believe the same commitment was not made to Roc because of Gus's HUNH system. I think Gus has been flummoxed big-time the last couple of years for a laundry list of reasons, and unfortunately, the lack of commitment to feature Roc has kinda been collateral damage to the flummoxiness.

Then again, maybe Roc has just been too injury prone and/or had too many turnovers to gain coaches' trust?? Either way, Godspeed Mr. Thomas! Stay healthy and clean up D1AA.

Caddy was very hard to tackle though. His ability to break tackles might be unmatched by anyone with his same size. Incredible balance and strength for a guy with his measurables. Roc never showed the ability to shake off defenders IMO. No slamming Roc here, as my opinion on him is posted in my above post. But I just think that Cadillac was in his own classification.

[oracle79 3,569]

Great potential, but in 2 years, he's scored 4 TD's and the longest was 56 yards (against Idaho). I'm not seeing what the big deal is. Good luck to him at JSU.

[aujeff11 6,243]

If I was recruiting the premier in state 5* rb and it took the promise of ONE DAMN PLAY to land him, I would so absolutely do it. How folks are dumping this on Gus I don't know. I liked Roc over Barber too. It just didn't shake out. I still had hope it would eventually as a uniquely different position for him. Not much more we can add to this.

Seriously. He hadn't been spectacular, but that's a pretty low risk play. Simply pass in the flat to Roc to possible get him open in space. Cadillac played as a true freshman too. Do you think Carnell has a brainfart like that?

Look at the play again. The issue with Roc wasn't that he fumbled the lateral, it was that he didn't even really attempt to fall on the ball.

http://espn.go.com/v...lip?id=11955890

That is not on the coaches.

Caddilac came in late and had less freshman mistakes too. There is a difference. Same with Dyer, he played pretty well. Roc had about 38 carries all season and three fumbles, two lost.

There are mistakes and then there are MISTAKES.

A mistake is not moving the ball to your outside hand away from the defense. Or carrying it like a loaf of bread away from your body and getting it poked out. Or misreading your blocking assignment on a pass play.

This was a lack of game and field awareness and a lack of effort. Even if he'd lost the fumble anyway, he's not in the doghouse if he busts ass to jump on that ball.

The mistake was that he automatically assumed it was a dead ball. Freshmen make them mistakes too.

[FoundationEagle 637]

^^^Agreed. I'd be shocked if Gus makes it to 2017. I just don't see him being the long term answer. Hopefully there's not too many coaching changes this offseason--less competition, and all.

It's amazing that for an "offensive genius" we have maybe one big star on offense (JR). At least we have a veteran line.

I'm not saying you're a turd, but you have more than a few turd-like tendencies. And don't give us the I'm-just-a-realist line.

Damn straight

[Tiger 8,827]

Great potential, but in 2 years, he's scored 4 TD's and the longest was 56 yards. I'm not seeing what the big deal is. Good luck to him at JSU.

Also he couldn't even reach double-digit touches in a game without getting injured. He wasn't RB1 but he had a very nice spot in this offense waiting for him IMO

I think this may be deeper than what we're seeing on the surface in regards to the program. No insider source just a "vibe" the program has been giving me. This is not a positive and he was going to contribute. We can overcome if we are fortunate with injuries however. Before it's all said and done I think Kerryon can be one of those running backs that come to mind when we discuss if AU is RBU or not. But our RB depth took a huge hit with Barber and Roc leaving us.

[AU80cruiser 1,102]

If that was a promise made to a player that was either not mentally prepared or woefully inadequate in the Football IQ department, then that IS on the coaches.

He hadn't shown anything up to that point that would indicate such a brainfart was forthcoming. And they teach players from junior high age on up to jump on a loose ball just in case, particularly on laterals and passes in the flat.

Yes he had shown a knack to make mistakes. He had at least 3 fumbles, losing two in the short amount of carries that he had in 2014.These fumbles other than the big one were late in the game though.

The question is, would Gus have played Roc against Bama if there was no recruiting promise? If he wouldn't have, then yes, the fumble is on the coaches. And I know that Gus wants his most trusted players in big games which leads me to doubt that Roc would've played.

No question Roc would have played in the uat game. Just don't think Roc would have got the first touch. Just a story I thought was interesting.

That same play everyone is talking about in the iron bowl was ran on the opening drive atleast twice against georgia two weeks prior. Roc caught the ball and got positive yards both times. We scored on that drive (our sole touchdown of the game)

[alexava 6,973]

If I was recruiting the premier in state 5* rb and it took the promise of ONE DAMN PLAY to land him, I would so absolutely do it. How folks are dumping this on Gus I don't know. I liked Roc over Barber too. It just didn't shake out. I still had hope it would eventually as a uniquely different position for him. Not much more we can add to this.

Seriously. He hadn't been spectacular, but that's a pretty low risk play. Simply pass in the flat to Roc to possible get him open in space. Cadillac played as a true freshman too. Do you think Carnell has a brainfart like that?

Look at the play again. The issue with Roc wasn't that he fumbled the lateral, it was that he didn't even really attempt to fall on the ball.

http://espn.go.com/v...lip?id=11955890

That is not on the coaches.

Caddilac came in late and had less freshman mistakes too. There is a difference. Same with Dyer, he played pretty well. Roc had about 38 carries all season and three fumbles, two lost.

There are mistakes and then there are MISTAKES.

A mistake is not moving the ball to your outside hand away from the defense. Or carrying it like a loaf of bread away from your body and getting it poked out. Or misreading your blocking assignment on a pass play.

This was a lack of game and field awareness and a lack of effort. Even if he'd lost the fumble anyway, he's not in the doghouse if he busts ass to jump on that ball.

The mistake was that he automatically assumed it was a dead ball. Freshmen make them mistakes too.

i think he didn't know and tried to fake the opposition and officials into playing it as a fwd pass. He started to go after it then quit. Edit...... After watching the link again there was some laziness in there too.

[Charhair 345]

We do lose that one talent of RT...the ability to take it all the way to the EZ. No one on this team has that speed. We have Jovon and Miller as power backs, Petway and Cox as FBs who will now run some at TB too i think, and Kerryon J, who will be our quickest back, but i dont think has the speed of Roc to take it all the way on one carry.

But true Roc was not going to get many carries, but be the slot WR and swing back out of the backfield.

ANd i wouldnt doubt that his old high school HC, who is now the HC and Jax St told him he would be the feature back now. He will get more exposure..and hope he does well...

no one else on the team has that kind of speed? Not even JF3, Jason Smith or any of the other receivers? I honestly feel like even JR has enough break away speed to take it the endzone (seems like he's got a higher top end speed than Dyer/Tre/CAP did anyway) of course we haven't really seen him have the chance to race anyone to endzone yet so I could be completely wrong

[AUBwins 10,075]

under utilized, imo... this one stings.

I agree. He never had consistent chances to touch the ball. He may have been a guy that needs to be in a rhythm. He did try to spin too often, fumbled the first touch, got injured when given the opportunity early last year, and was stuck behind the Barber-Robinson duo; but should have seen the field more IMO

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

We do lose that one talent of RT...the ability to take it all the way to the EZ. No one on this team has that speed. We have Jovon and Miller as power backs, Petway and Cox as FBs who will now run some at TB too i think, and Kerryon J, who will be our quickest back, but i dont think has the speed of Roc to take it all the way on one carry.

But true Roc was not going to get many carries, but be the slot WR and swing back out of the backfield.

ANd i wouldnt doubt that his old high school HC, who is now the HC and Jax St told him he would be the feature back now. He will get more exposure..and hope he does well...

no one else on the team has that kind of speed? Not even JF3, Jason Smith or any of the other receivers? I honestly feel like even JR has enough break away speed to take it the endzone (seems like he's got a higher top end speed than Dyer/Tre/CAP did anyway) of course we haven't really seen him have the chance to race anyone to endzone yet so I could be completely wrong

JF3 is the fastest player on O. And I don't know if there is a close second. I think one of the Davis DB's is the fastest. JF3 has some elite wheels on him. So I was told.

[alexava 6,973]

We do lose that one talent of RT...the ability to take it all the way to the EZ. No one on this team has that speed. We have Jovon and Miller as power backs, Petway and Cox as FBs who will now run some at TB too i think, and Kerryon J, who will be our quickest back, but i dont think has the speed of Roc to take it all the way on one carry.

But true Roc was not going to get many carries, but be the slot WR and swing back out of the backfield.

ANd i wouldnt doubt that his old high school HC, who is now the HC and Jax St told him he would be the feature back now. He will get more exposure..and hope he does well...

no one else on the team has that kind of speed? Not even JF3, Jason Smith or any of the other receivers? I honestly feel like even JR has enough break away speed to take it the endzone (seems like he's got a higher top end speed than Dyer/Tre/CAP did anyway) of course we haven't really seen him have the chance to race anyone to endzone yet so I could be completely wrong

JF3 is the fastest player on O. And I don't know if there is a close second. I think one of the Davis DB's is the fastest. JF3 has some elite wheels on him. So I was told.

i bet rudi is fastest on d

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Great potential, but in 2 years, he's scored 4 TD's and the longest was 56 yards. I'm not seeing what the big deal is. Good luck to him at JSU.

Also he couldn't even reach double-digit touches in a game without getting injured. He wasn't RB1 but he had a very nice spot in this offense waiting for him IMO

I think this may be deeper than what we're seeing on the surface in regards to the program. No insider source just a "vibe" the program has been giving me. This is not a positive and he was going to contribute. We can overcome if we are fortunate with injuries however. Before it's all said and done I think Kerryon can be one of those running backs that come to mind when we discuss if AU is RBU or not. But our RB depth took a huge hit with Barber and Roc leaving us.

I don't see it as anything than Roc wanting to be the man at RB and being stuck behind Jovon and Kerryon for that slot. Happens all the time, especially with guys who come in with lots of hype and accolades. He certainly had his chances to shine, but aside from a play here or there, never showed it. Meanwhile, guys with a fraction of his ability like Barber come in and just work their ass off and make plays to keep drives alive.

It sucks because I see the potential. But that's all it is. And potential doesn't win ball games.