2016 Fall Camp - Practice 5

[bigbird 60,562]

15 minutes ago, 80Tiger said:

I agree that the same facts have been regurgitated all summer. Just to clarify my thoughts/position. I have never had any reason to know that JF3 was the better QB. I had no idea if he was or not. My contention/concern has been that our existing QB's were very average and I was hoping for better production from that position this coming year. It certainly looks as if one last years guys is going to be the starter. I tend to look at things from a very black and white perspective. I know both QB's had a different sets of issues (confidence, injury, etc).  Even at their best I did not see much from either of our QB's last year to make me feel better about this year. I was hoping for a better talent to be on campus. Does not look like the case. Not counting on Woody yet.  Just to young. It's just my opinion. I hope I am wrong. It certainly will not be the first time if I am.

I agree we need better production from the QB position. However, you cant look at their performances last year without acknowledging  mitigating factors that contributed to them. 

This was posted by Stats and was encouraging to me.
  

Quote

    On 7/30/2016 at 1:44 PM, 

            Nine of the last 10 Auburn QBs to start at least 2 seasons in a row, improved their QBR the following season.
     

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

I don't like it. I know you don't want to get guys hurt but all we heard last year about JJ was that he was great in practice. Not only him but the team in general. 

Except we did learn what White and JJ bring to the table in a live setting during the season last year. As for Franklin, our insiders are hearing that he hasn't gotten a command of the offense yet. I don't think sending them live is going to make him learn the playbook. 

And Bird, please tell me that Marshall wasn't the lone exception on that list, because he was Gus's only 2 year starter. 

[LKEEL75 2,566]

A couple of questions.  

1) Did Byron change his number?  Or did they move him to LB?  I did not see #9 in any of the DLine drills videos.  I did see #9 1 time in the video of D vs O

2) Who is #16 playing QB?  Saw him in a couple of the videos taking snaps.

3) I noticed in one of the QB videos that JFIII was not present.  Was he possibly working on drills with another group?

[bigbird 60,562]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Except we did learn what White and JJ bring to the table in a live setting during the season last year. As for Franklin, our insiders are hearing that he hasn't gotten a command of the offense yet. I don't think sending them live is going to make him learn the playbook. 

And Bird, please tell me that Marshall wasn't the lone exception on that list, because he was Gus's only 2 year starter. 

I believe Stats said it was Stan White

[dmoney 271]

17 hours ago, tombigbeetiger said:

i wouldn't put a lot of stock in what malzahn says, but it could be true, since our offense consists of about 6 running plays, a bubble screen and "ya'll go long" pass plays

now this is funny and not funny at the sametime.  looking at last year you are 100% correct... ??????

Edited August 8, 2016 by dmoney

[AUApostle 7,651]

Freshman QBs often become better QBs in the subsequent years that follow.  I was not crazy about White last year, but I believe he has improved, is healthy, and will be a solid QB this year.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, AUDevil said:

Freshman QBs often become better QBs in the subsequent years that follow. 

And it helps when the team around them grows more experienced and talented, also. 

These seem like such simple, obvious, universal concepts, but so many refuse to acknowledge them. Truly perplexing. 

[VipersStrike1 230]

20 minutes ago, lkeel75 said:

1) Did Byron change his number?  Or did they move him to LB?  I did not see #9 in any of the DLine drills videos.  I did see #9 1 time in the video of D vs O

No. He's still #9 per that video you referenced. He lined up at DT beside DE Holland.

[LKEEL75 2,566]

Just now, VipersStrike1 said:

No. He's still #9 per that video you referenced. He lined up at DT beside DE Holland.

I thought so, but I don't see him in any of the DL videos from 4th or 5th practices.

[VipersStrike1 230]

2 minutes ago, lkeel75 said:

I thought so, but I don't see him in any of the DL videos from 4th or 5th practices.

Odd. Perhaps WarDamnEagleWDE might have more insight.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

42 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Except we did learn what White and JJ bring to the table in a live setting during the season last year. As for Franklin, our insiders are hearing that he hasn't gotten a command of the offense yet. I don't think sending them live is going to make him learn the playbook. 

And Bird, please tell me that Marshall wasn't the lone exception on that list, because he was Gus's only 2 year starter. 

But with many stating White under preformed or didn't reach his full potential was due to injury and JJ performance was due to mental issues how are we supposed to know if those assumptions are correct and if they were improved upon? The games SW started were not against the best competition and i'd love to know he's going live in redzone situations considering he only had 1 TD pass. Yes that can be attributed to the WRs and playcalling but not all of it. I get the fact that if JF3 isn't improving move on but I want them all going live or might as well put JF3 in. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, WarEagle1983 said:

But with many stating White under preformed or didn't reach his full potential was due to injury and JJ performance was due to mental issues how are we supposed to know if those assumptions are correct and if they were improved upon? The games SW started were not against the best competition and i'd love to know he's going live in redzone situations considering he only had 1 TD pass. Yes that can be attributed to the WRs and playcalling but not all of it. I get the fact that if JF3 isn't improving move on but I want them all going live or might as well put JF3 in. 

All i can say is that Sean took the job and kept the job playing live football until he got hurt. JJ likely lost the job because it was live football that caused his mental issues. The level of competition wasn't so much worse for Sean- JJ played against Louisville and Jacksonville State, for crying out loud- that the coaches are going to learn more from a few live scrimmages against their own defense than they did in 13 actual football games. 

And, again, if JFIII isn't grasping the offense then a scrimmage isn't going to level the playing field- pun intended- in a way that is going to benefit the football team. 

[mcgufcm 4,101]

The games Sean started were against pretty damn good competition. Ole Miss finished second in the West and 10-3 overall. Arkansas finished third in the West and 8-5 overall. MSU finished sixth in the West and 9-4 overall. (PS. The West is crazy with a team that good finishing sixth.) And Memphis finished 9-4 overall (with a win over Ole Miss). That's pretty damn good competition.

As for the whole Sean White argument, I'll play. The only discussion McLoofus and I were having is whether he could run our read offense, and we both took the position that, when healthy, the MSU game is clear evidence that he can. Again, he's not going to be Nick Marshall, but he's more mobile than people think. Then, 80Tiger stepped in to crap on that idea and claimed he was doing it through "facts." So, let's look at the facts.

In the MSU game, Sean White kept the ball on designed keepers or in the zone read seven times. On those plays, he totaled 66 yards, including a 31-yard run, a 13-yard run on 2nd and 14, and two other first downs. When running the ball, he picked up a first down every other carry and averaged 9.4 ypc. His rushing stats were depressed because he was sacked four times for 37 yards. Those are the facts, and I have to say, after looking at the numbers, I feel even better about my claim that Sean can handle the read game. He's not going to blow teams away, but he can keep us ahead on down/distance and move the chains with his feet.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

All i can say is that Sean took the job and kept the job playing live football until he got hurt. JJ likely lost the job because it was live football that caused his mental issues. The level of competition wasn't so much worse for Sean- JJ played against Louisville and Jacksonville State, for crying out loud- that the coaches are going to learn more from a few live scrimmages against their own defense than they did in 13 actual football games. 

And, again, if JFIII isn't grasping the offense then a scrimmage isn't going to level the playing field- pun intended- in a way that is going to benefit the football team. 

I'm not making it just about JF3 though. I'm referring to all of them b/c none of them..healthy or otherwise actually showed much promise. If one did we wouldn't be in the mess. I didn't see much from SW when healthy that make me says he's clearly our starter. You go live some to see if the issues they had last season have been corrected. I don't think no one is asking for a full blown go kill the QB but i want to know more about exactly how JJ and SW have improved from last season's game performances and i don't see how we don't get a better understanding of that without putting some pressure on them. Sorry if i've had enough of the wonderful drills and practices we seem to have on a weekly basis but don't have a QB that closely resembled being able to lead an offense. 

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I hope SW isn't asked to run the read option much at all. Why make him into something he's not. I fully understand keeping the defense honest but if SW is our best chance to win the most games this season i would hope that our passing QB isn't going to be asked to run the ball 8-10 times a game considering he's already had issues staying healthy. I feel like if we implement a solid gameplan working to his strengths he can be effective. I'm just of the belief that i don't think his ceiling is that much more higher but I completely understand starting him. My questions regarding Sean deals more with his: Improving his game situational awareness; limiting his turnovers and being able to lead the team in key moments in the game. I'm not against SW i'm just not as sold as some others are.

[api1957 1,783]

I think a healthy, confident Sean White with receivers who don't suffer a case of the drops this year (fingers crossed) will do just fine....

 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

I'm not making it just about JF3 though. I'm referring to all of them b/c none of them..healthy or otherwise actually showed much promise. If one did we wouldn't be in the mess. I didn't see much from SW when healthy that make me says he's clearly our starter. You go live some to see if the issues they had last season have been corrected. I don't think no one is asking for a full blown go kill the QB but i want to know more about exactly how JJ and SW have improved from last season's game performances and i don't see how we don't get a better understanding of that without putting some pressure on them. Sorry if i've had enough of the wonderful drills and practices we seem to have on a weekly basis but don't have a QB that closely resembled being able to lead an offense. 

That's a respectable opinion, as usual. The coaches certainly wanted better than they had last year, because they got Franklin and tried to get several other guys. So you might be right about that. 

As for Sean's mobility, I just guess some of us see different things when watching film. mcgufcm provided some pretty good stats to back up what he and I see, I thought. 

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

All in all I think SW as the starter with some JF3 mixed in situationally can give us the best results on offense. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

5 hours ago, ellitor said:

I don't know where this JJ will be the starter thought has come from. Sure anything can happen & it's possible but there has been no credible info come across saying or implying JJ has passed Sean (Who went in the Summer w/ the lead) in the QB1 race. No disrespect to Civil or EagleEye but this line of thinking at the moment baffles me.

I no rite!! Ain't no buddy better than Shawn White! No Buddy!

[mcgufcm 4,101]

I think he has a lot of growing up (as a player and leader) to do, but I see a lot of potential. I think he is a playmaker. He just has to learn when to force it and when the just play the next down. I also don't think he'll have 8-10 carries a game, but I think the read will remain in the offense. With 3-6 carries a game, he can keep the defense honest and be a plus in the run game.

Turnovers are a big deal though. He has shown an penchant for turning it over in the redzone, and that happened again on A-Day. That's my biggest concern with Sean. I think the guy can really play, and I think people are underselling how explosive he can make an offense. We had three different WRs with catches of 40+ yards against Ole Miss (a very good defensive team). Ricardo and Jason Smith also had 40+ yard catches against Kentucky and Arkansas, respectively. He's not a finished product, but I think Sean has more upside than people believe.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

That's a respectable opinion, as usual. The coaches certainly wanted better than they had last year, because they got Franklin and tried to get several other guys. So you might be right about that. 

As for Sean's mobility, I just guess some of us see different things when watching film. mcgufcm provided some pretty good stats to back up what he and I see, I thought. 

Yeah i don't question his mobility for the type of QB he is. I honestly hope we're not running him 8-10 times a game in the read but if we do i fully understand and agree that if SW can get 4-5 yards on those carries it'll certainly make our offense a lot better. It wouldn't have to require a homerun hitter like JF3 on the read option. Biggest thing is that it would put our percentage at getting 1st downs at a highly successful rate which helps our tempo. 

Edited August 8, 2016 by WarEagle1983

[Tiger 8,827]

^ That is what I'm looking for as well.

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

Yeah i don't question his mobility for the type of QB he is. I honestly hope we're not running him 8-10 times a game in the read but if we do i fully understand and agree that if SW can get 4-5 yards on those carries it'll certainly make our offense a lot better. It wouldn't have to require a homerun hitter like JF3 on the read option. Biggest thing is that it would put our percentage at getting 1st downs at a highly successful rate which helps our tempo. 

I'm guilty of forgetting that some folks are more concerned about his durability when questioning his viability as a mobile QB. That's a legit concern for any mobile QB, for sure. 

A lot of folks do question his actual mobility, though, in a way that suggests they based their scouting report on a picture of him wearing a blue blazer and an orange tie. That's where some of my misplaced frustration comes from. 

And, man, do I ever agree with you about getting those first downs with medium-to-short distance to go. Huuuuuge difference between the good seasons and last year. I'm not sure everybody understands that tempo doesn't happen without them.  

Edited August 8, 2016 by McLoofus

[PoetTiger 1,899]

1 hour ago, WarEagle1983 said:

I don't like it. I know you don't want to get guys hurt but all we heard last year about JJ was that he was great in practice. Not only him but the team in general. 

When you guys say going live are you speaking in reference to tackling or throwing the kitchen sink at them from a schematic standpoint. Reason I ask is because several of JJ mistakes occurred when there was no pressure at all. I mean he literally threw the ball right to the LB against Louisville and Jax State. 

[NoALtiger 3,865]

2 minutes ago, PoetTiger said:

When you guys say going live are you speaking in reference to tackling or throwing the kitchen sink at them from a schematic standpoint. Reason I ask is because several of JJ mistakes occurred when there was no pressure at all. I mean he literally threw the ball right to the LB against Louisville and Jax State. 

I always envision a game like situation period. Tackling, schematics- the whole kitchen sink as you say. There is no substitute in trying to uncover the unknown IMO.