confrontation with reality

[BornAU76 403]

4 hours ago, RHN1975 said:

Am I 100% happy with CGM? No and I think he could have gotten more out of some of our teams in the past. I think he got to a point where he was cruising along but something changed at the end of last season. It may have been the pressure of knowing he couldn't continue doing the same things. What ever it is I believe it will pay off this year. I also believe that 8 wins maybe 9 with Orgegon out of the way is a good year for this team this season. I have some hope because AU has been terribly bad at making adjustments and Saturday it seemed they did that extremely well. Nix also survived a terrible first half to flip it and be productive in the second half. I can't imagine being 18yo and playing probably the worst half of football of my entire life and turning it around to be steady the second half. 

Heck compare CGM to other coaches at the same point 7 years into their career. 

Gus- 62-30 / SEC title / Sun Belt Title / 1 other divisional title

Saban- 42-28-1 / 1 MAC title / Lost to UAB

Dabo- 61-26 / 1 ACC title / 2 other divsional titles

 

Saban and Dabo did not spend 6 of their first 7 years coaching in the SEC West. You could replace him with Licoln Riley tomorrow and the results a couple of years from now would be the same. Find any hot shot young coach and it will be the same.  Heck think back to when he was hired and the names thrown around. None of those guys would still be here. 

 

 

Perspective is a helluva thing...

[Beaker 2,457]

On 9/2/2019 at 4:11 PM, Gowebb11 said:

If Dabo and Riley played our schedule every year, what would their record be?  I’m sure they would have success, but not 12 win a year success. 

This ^^^^.   100%.   

Gus is definitely growing into the role, but I think the role of the modern day P5 HC has changed in the last 10 yrs.   Seems to be more complex as defense has caught up with the HUNH and substititions have changed.  I think the SEC is showcasing a resurgence of superior talent on the defensive side.   Recruiting has also changed a lot with the influence of social media.   I honestly think it is just more complex.

All in all, yeah, we could do a lot worse.  Lots of young coaches seem ready, but who thought Pruitt would struggle like this?  None of us. Taggert?  Nope.  Harbough?   Chip Kelly?  No way....

Selecting a HC is harder today than 10-15 yrs ago.  

Now, if you accept $7 mio / yr, you accept the responsibility and have to have big shoulders.   I am not giving you a 'pass' b/c the job is complex.  

Yes, give me Gus over nearly all those mentioned above.  He's good for a loss that we should not have, I am convinced of that.  But we would be in a world of hurt with most others.

 

For the fella that mentioned Mike Leach:  please someone in the SEC W hire Mike Leach.  He is absolute radio gold.   I don't want him as my coach, but he is absolutely the best 'soundbite' coach out there.   UT really should've hired him. 

[leglessdan 1,934]

7 hours ago, IronMan70 said:

 

Then there are these questions. If AU was in the SEC East would Gus be able to put up 10-11 wins every year ? Highly likely. Would he then be perceived differently ? Yes. Would he be a different coach ? No. Now ask yourself the same questions if AU was in the ACC. That's something to think about when comparing coaches such as Smart or Dabo.

Are we that far off ? Not really. Does that mean that Gus doesn't need to win the games each year he should have never lost in the first place ? No, it does not and that is why he is on a short fuse. As I said yesterday, if he would just do that he would be a solid 9 wins or better coach in the SECW every year. That would also change a lot perceptions.

I get what you're saying,  and yes I'm sure the perception would be different.  That said, if Gus would just win the games that we have the talent advantage capable of winning, he'd be a minimum 9 win per year coach, with some better seasons sprinkled in. No one is asking to be a powerhouse every, although I think we've had the talent capable of that, just consistency. We've proven we can beat more talented teams, even with his predictable play calling. It's the boneheaded losses to a down LSU, down uGa, Mississippi schools and a rebuilding uTk that creates the hot seat conversation. 

[augolf1716 21,646]

8 hours ago, im4aual said:

Auburn and Tennessee played in the 2004 SEC championship game, Tennessee hasn't been back since.  In 2008, both programs took a nosedive and fired their coaches, both with at least ten years at the helm.  The difference between the two programs since then has been Gus. He was there for the three best years of the Chizik era, and came back and instantly made Auburn relevant again when the bottom fell out in 2012.  Tennessee is on their 4th coach in that time frame - none as successful as Gus at Auburn.  

I live in Chattanooga, grew up here, and returned after graduating from Auburn.  In my sixty years, I've never seen Vol fans this down.  They would kill to have Gus as their coach, and many have said so.  I know we lost to them last year, and it hurt, but most here in Tennessee see that as a fluke day where we played our worst and they played their best.

I honestly think that Fulmer hired Pruitt instead of a more qualified coach as a way of finding a back door to be the Tennessee coach again.  I think he'll let him flounder through the difficult first half of the season (Georgia, Florida, & bama), fire him and appoint himself as the interim head coach for the less difficult last part of the season (UCSe, Vandy, & Kentucky plus a homecoming patsy).  When the team looks better against weaker competition, he'll be the coach again.  If you think that this is too far fetched, remember how he got the head coaching job the first time when Johnny Majors was out for heart surgery.  Fulmer is a snake.

 

 

 

 

You are so so right................Fulmer is a snake can't stand the man

[Beaker 2,457]

6 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

This BS about Dabo being in the ACC is garbage. His team is better coached, better trained, and better recruited. Regardless of conference, dabo beats gus 80+% of the time. 

Today?  Yes

until 2 yrs ago?   No. 50-50 and I am not a huge Gus lover.   Actually I really really like Dabo - heard him speak to a bunch of high schoolers once.  Gus would beat Dabo 50% of the time until a couple of yrs ago. Trust me, I am right this time.

The reason Dabo would dominate Gus today  is because he has had 2 additionally yrs to build a dominant program with better recruits that don't have to play Comparable competition as Gus has to.  B/c Dabo plays a soft schedule (it is what it is), he can develop more depth and have less injuries, every year!   They peak perfectly in December as they should and should challenge for a title every yr.   They are developed and healthy for playoffs.  This is excellent coaching, but only b/c the stars have aligned for Dabo.  

 

Clemson is just like FSU was when they joined the ACC - dominating everyone with much better players.  I think FSU finished in the top 3 like 8 or 9 yrs in a row.  Look it up.  Crazy.   

[AUGunsmith 666]

17 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Today?  Yes

until 2 yrs ago?   No. 50-50 and I am not a huge Gus lover.

The reason Dabo would dominate Gus today  is because he has had 2 additionally yrs to build a dominant program with better recruits that don't have to play Comparable competition as Gus has to.  B/c Dabo plays a soft schedule (it is what it is), he can develop more depth and have less injuries, every year!   They peak perfectly in December as they should and should challenge for a title every yr.   They are developed and healthy for playoffs.

Clemson is just like FSU was when they joined the ACC - dominating everyone with much better players.  I think FSU finished in the top 3 like 8 or 9 yrs in a row.  Look it up.  Crazy.

Or maybe dabo is developing players and putting a better team on the field because of superior staff and game planning/management. 

 

His recent round of draft picked players means he was picking up and developing talent for more than just the last 2 years. 

Are people here suck SEC homers that they honestly think playing UM, MSST, vandy, UK, Tenn, Arky, Mizzu, are any better than teams like Syracuse, NCST, UVA, Virginia St?

 

Let's just forget that the ACC is 29-26 vs the SEC since the AU FSU natty. 

[tigeraddikt 1,629]

On 9/2/2019 at 3:13 PM, AuCivilEng1 said:

If this is what our purgAUtory is, we are gonna be ok. Tennessee’s purgatory seems wayyyy worse.

Pretty sure Tennessee has taken that one step beyond Purgatory...

[doc4aday 1,887]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence as long as it is not poison ivy!  I think if Dillingham can continue to develop into a high quality QB/ OC, this could be what the doctor ordered possibly. There are some nice HC choices out there albeit not as many as I once thought. UAB really almost did the unthinkable by nearly losing to a team they should have beaten by 35 points. I will give Bill Clark a pass on this game and judge his coaching prowess in 5 or 6 more games.

I would love nothing more than to see Gus win 10 plus games this season and start on a long upward trend of being a top 10 coach.  One thing I want to see this week is for us to come out smoking and do a Purdue type of game against Tulane. That would make a lot of us happy and looking to the future for a superb season. RIght now, the biggest concern is LSU. I think the Texas game will tell us a lot more about LSU. They looked great against a team they should have beaten by 6 TDs.

Put LSU against Oregon,  and you would see a tight game much like what we had. Honestly, I think Texas will beat LSU by 10 points and take the edge off of Eddie ball as I like to call it. If LSU has the best defense in the SEC this season, look for Aranda to cash in a nice pay increase as a HC. Maybe Tennessee will come calling after Pruitt ball comes to a grinding halt.

As I ramble on watching the Braves & Blue Birds play a slow boring game; I wish the Braves would go wild and score 12 runs in an inning and make things livelier on this end of the world! Let the good times roll Toomer's Corner early and often this season!

 

WDE!!

 

The Doc

[WFE12 9,203]

 

[augolf1716 21,646]

24 minutes ago, WFE12 said:

 

No disrespect to Scott but the big issue with this is at the beginning of the season yes but where does he end up at the end. Hopefully we will be there this year.

[gr82be 14,643]

Just now, augolf1716 said:

No disrespect to Scott but the big issue with this is at the beginning of the season yes but where does he end up at the end. Hopefully we will be there this year.

I was just coming to post basically the same. Dye's Auburn teams ended up ranked in the top 10 five times in that stretch. Gus's twice in this stretch. 

[doug3020 842]

Let's revisit this thread at week 6 or 7. 

[AUGunsmith 666]

9 hours ago, RHN1975 said:

Am I 100% happy with CGM? No and I think he could have gotten more out of some of our teams in the past. I think he got to a point where he was cruising along but something changed at the end of last season. It may have been the pressure of knowing he couldn't continue doing the same things. What ever it is I believe it will pay off this year. I also believe that 8 wins maybe 9 with Orgegon out of the way is a good year for this team this season. I have some hope because AU has been terribly bad at making adjustments and Saturday it seemed they did that extremely well. Nix also survived a terrible first half to flip it and be productive in the second half. I can't imagine being 18yo and playing probably the worst half of football of my entire life and turning it around to be steady the second half. 

Heck compare CGM to other coaches at the same point 7 years into their career. 

Gus- 62-30 / SEC title / Sun Belt Title / 1 other divisional title

Saban- 42-28-1 / 1 MAC title / Lost to UAB

Dabo- 61-26 / 1 ACC title / 2 other divsional titles

 

Saban and Dabo did not spend 6 of their first 7 years coaching in the SEC West. You could replace him with Licoln Riley tomorrow and the results a couple of years from now would be the same. Find any hot shot young coach and it will be the same.  Heck think back to when he was hired and the names thrown around. None of those guys would still be here. 

 

 

None of those guys deserve to be here at 7 mil a year either. Coaches learning the ropes dont get big boy money. 

[ToraGirl 5,498]

4 hours ago, Beaker said:

This ^^^^.   100%.   

Gus is definitely growing into the role, but I think the role of the modern day P5 HC has changed in the last 10 yrs.   Seems to be more complex as defense has caught up with the HUNH and substititions have changed.  I think the SEC is showcasing a resurgence of superior talent on the defensive side.   Recruiting has also changed a lot with the influence of social media.   I honestly think it is just more complex.

All in all, yeah, we could do a lot worse.  Lots of young coaches seem ready, but who thought Pruitt would struggle like this?  None of us. Taggert?  Nope.  Harbough?   Chip Kelly?  No way....

Selecting a HC is harder today than 10-15 yrs ago.  

Now, if you accept $7 mio / yr, you accept the responsibility and have to have big shoulders.   I am not giving you a 'pass' b/c the job is complex.  

Yes, give me Gus over nearly all those mentioned above.  He's good for a loss that we should not have, I am convinced of that.  But we would be in a world of hurt with most others.

 

For the fella that mentioned Mike Leach:  please someone in the SEC W hire Mike Leach.  He is absolute radio gold.   I don't want him as my coach, but he is absolutely the best 'soundbite' coach out there.   UT really should've hired him. 

GREAT post.  While the names from previous threads are floating, I KNOW I saw Mario Cristobal's name floating right up there with them...

For me, it's just the astronomical money, and, as ad nauseum discussed on countless threads, the fear-jerk catalyst that brought it about.  And the dashed expectations for such.  High salary, high bar.  Show me personal/professional growth, accountability, results, and continued team/staff cohesion, I might hu$h about the money.  Pulling for the entire team...including our coaches.  Maybe if the phrase "slant route" gets out there enough, it might hit the ears that need to hear it most?

[penguin149 391]

Chip Kelley???  Probation at Oregon.  Can't recruit without bag men.

Mike Leach???  Dude's a good coach but off the charts crazy!  The media would eat him alive in the SEC.  Remember Mike Price?  He was clueless that his rendezvous with Destiny would be found out.

[tbone4jc 2,252]

2 hours ago, WFE12 said:

 

Funny thing....some "fans" just cannot appreciate ANYTHING this coach has done. Y'all who criticize CGM for every bad issue ( and half hearted props for good or great things he has done) are acting soooooo similar to the other fan bases you claim to hate so much or claim that Auburn fan base is so much better than. And don't @ me with he hasn't won anything because he has or that he has lost games he shouldn't have( PLEASE name me ANY coach that hasn't). He is a good coach and is evolving into a great one. Bashing our coach at every opportunity in EVERY THREAD has gotten very old. Time to move on already. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,852]

9 hours ago, Beaker said:

This ^^^^.   100%.   

Gus is definitely growing into the role, but I think the role of the modern day P5 HC has changed in the last 10 yrs.   Seems to be more complex as defense has caught up with the HUNH and substititions have changed.  I think the SEC is showcasing a resurgence of superior talent on the defensive side.   Recruiting has also changed a lot with the influence of social media.   I honestly think it is just more complex.

All in all, yeah, we could do a lot worse.  Lots of young coaches seem ready, but who thought Pruitt would struggle like this?  None of us. Taggert?  Nope.  Harbough?   Chip Kelly?  No way....

Selecting a HC is harder today than 10-15 yrs ago.  

Now, if you accept $7 mio / yr, you accept the responsibility and have to have big shoulders.   I am not giving you a 'pass' b/c the job is complex.  

Yes, give me Gus over nearly all those mentioned above.  He's good for a loss that we should not have, I am convinced of that.  But we would be in a world of hurt with most others.

 

For the fella that mentioned Mike Leach:  please someone in the SEC W hire Mike Leach.  He is absolute radio gold.   I don't want him as my coach, but he is absolutely the best 'soundbite' coach out there.   UT really should've hired him. 

Leach would be perfect at a SEC school that could partially recruit for itself and has no real identity, offensively or defensively. UT fits the bill, although I’m not sure how many recruits remember a good UT (I’m in that same generation and the only reason I could guess is because they played Auburn often during those last conference title competing years) 

[kevon67 2,368]

On 9/2/2019 at 2:39 PM, doverstutts said:

I just realized that AU does not have it so bad with our present HC.   We could do much better, but damn, we could do much worse.  I did not want this guy to be hired, I did not want him retained when him and Sexton took advantage of a ********* president, with no insight from an AD at the time, but after listening to UT and USCe fans today, I guess I might as well face reality and leave well enough alone.   What I have listened to today is scary, and I did not realize that every Saban assistant  but one (K. Smart) has been a disappointment as a HC.   I did a lot of message board reading today, also.   Any chance of winning a championship is slim with Malzahn, but the reality is that there are just not many quality hires that ANY school could make right now.  I guess I will just have to live with Malzahn and his goofy-assed playcalling and decision making.   It could be Pruitt,Muschamp, Strong,Taggart, etc.  Its hard to believe how Vol fans have lost all hope, and I mean every single one.  Real eye-opening day for me.  I won't ever trust Malzahn, but I will learn to live with it

You left out Scott Frost......let that sink in.

[AuCivilEng1 11,385]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:11 PM, Gowebb11 said:

If Dabo and Riley played our schedule every year, what would their record be?  I’m sure they would have success, but not 12 win a year success. 

Riley is quickly becoming my favorite coach. The guy is a true offensive genius. And every QB he coaches is great. 

[abw0004 10,153]

2 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Riley is quickly becoming my favorite coach. The guys is a true offensive genius. And every QB he coaches is great. 

One thing I have thought about though is all of his quarterbacks have been transfers.  We gave Gus grief about not being to develop his own guys when the last three QB's Riley had were transfers.

[bigbird 60,701]

34 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

One thing I have thought about though is all of his quarterbacks have been transfers.  We gave Gus grief about not being to develop his own guys when the last three QB's Riley had were transfers.

But got better once at OU

[Mikey 16,781]

12 hours ago, doug3020 said:

Let's revisit this thread at week 6 or 7. 

Revisit it after the first loss, whenever that may be. There are a few of us that have been saying basically these same positive things for some time. Many others have been whining/griping/bashing Gus and wanting to change coaches for years now. No reasonable suggestions for a replacement, no idea how well some up and comer might do, just fire Gus and devil take the hindmost.  Have no fear, they will revert to form as soon as we lose a game, no matter when that might happen.

[Carnell 592]

On 9/2/2019 at 2:39 PM, doverstutts said:

I just realized that AU does not have it so bad with our present HC.   We could do much better, but damn, we could do much worse.  I did not want this guy to be hired, I did not want him retained when him and Sexton took advantage of a ********* president, with no insight from an AD at the time, but after listening to UT and USCe fans today, I guess I might as well face reality and leave well enough alone.   What I have listened to today is scary, and I did not realize that every Saban assistant  but one (K. Smart) has been a disappointment as a HC.   I did a lot of message board reading today, also.   Any chance of winning a championship is slim with Malzahn, but the reality is that there are just not many quality hires that ANY school could make right now.  I guess I will just have to live with Malzahn and his goofy-assed playcalling and decision making.   It could be Pruitt,Muschamp, Strong,Taggart, etc.  Its hard to believe how Vol fans have lost all hope, and I mean every single one.  Real eye-opening day for me.  I won't ever trust Malzahn, but I will learn to live with it

Riding mediocrity hate to hear that from fans. And of course there are not many quality hires at schools ( by quality hires I mean coaches that can win championships), they are elite and do not grow on trees.  That is going to be the case every year.  Vince Lombardi and knute rockne coaches are far from a dime a dozen that doesnt mean you dont expend efforts not to search for that coach. If you do not think you can find a quality coach at any school then expand your search to the NFL.  A coach I like is Dennis Allen.  He can implement an attacking defense as well as defenses that can cause the quarterback misreads.  I think he is a good at developing talent and he may can adopt sean payton's offense at auburn.

our current mediocrity will not stay mediocre for long because we are creating this mediocrity with probably the best talent Auburn can get.  As time goes along these top recruits will not continue to sign with Auburn because we dont compete so the talent level will continue to decline and those mediocre records become poor records.

FINALLY,  anytime a school hires a coach it is a risk but for Auburn to reduce that risk any coaching searches by interviewing canadiates from schools in the power 5 conferences and the NFL.

[keesler 5,934]

10 hours ago, penguin149 said:

Chip Kelley???  Probation at Oregon.  Can't recruit without bag men.

Mike Leach???  Dude's a good coach but off the charts crazy!  The media would eat him alive in the SEC.  Remember Mike Price?  He was clueless that his rendezvous with Destiny would be found out.

I remember when Auburn's Trooper Taylor was using the same bag man (Willie Lyles) that Chip was using to snag Lache Seastrunk.  Oregon out bid us and he landed at Oregon until the NCAA investigation put OU on 3 yrs probation and 3 lost scholarships.  Chip bolted for the NFL, the NCAA gave Seastrunk a clear cut transfer and he went to play for another shady character, Art Briles at Baylor.  Good Times!

[WalkingCarpet 1,379]

11 minutes ago, keesler said:

I remember when Auburn's Trooper Taylor was using the same bag man (Willie Lyles) that Chip was using to snag Lache Seastrunk.  Oregon out bid us and he landed at Oregon until the NCAA investigation put OU on 3 yrs probation and 3 lost scholarships.  Chip bolted for the NFL, the NCAA gave Seastrunk a clear cut transfer and he went to play for another shady character, Art Briles at Baylor.  Good Times!

I'm still sad we didn't get Marcus Lattimore out of that class.