2016 3* DT Quinnen Williams (Bama commit)

[war eagle6 0]

Let them decommit - I would hope they would reference the careers of Dee Liner, Brent Calloway, and to degree Reuben Foster. If the Bama machine reached them then so be it I just hope they know what they are getting themselves into....recruiting is about perception too...whatever Bama can do to undermine players from going to Au they will do it. I find it ironic that both changed their minds after camping at Bama. I would prefer they get off board now instead of pulling a Yeldon....I know this staff will get it done....and get it done the right way.

Indeed. And if I was a recruiter for AU out recruiting a kid in this state, one of my questions for him would be what is his favorite school, if he says bama, I'll shake his hand and tell him good luck. Because 9 times out of ten, they won't offer until we have offered and the kid commits to us. That's when the turds come knocking. It's not worth my time, i'd rather get talent from Georgia and Florida before I'd recruit this state full of gullible bama fans.

Sometimes kid fandom does not matter and this is a perfect example. Q did grow up an AU fan but his dad is a heavy Bama guy and is pushing Q there.

If that's the case, then there is no way my dad could influence me to go to that school. Sometimes as a parent all u can do in a situation like this is to just give him or her advice and step back and let them make their own decision.

[PoetTiger 1,899]

This times 1000. There is no way in the world a 2 star full back out of high school has the production DP did and be a first round pick without being greatly developed by his position coach. Regardless of my own personal frustrations with Garner's recruiting losses I just lost all respect for Pollack.

Or Pollack worked really really really hard? Which just so happened to be his calling card as a player on the field as well?

A major part of college coaching is developing work ethic. Some guys just possess that themselves already. I think that its a bit comical to state that the only reason Pollack succeeded was because of coaching. His work ethic was through the roof.

And maybe Garner helped instill that work ethic in him...good coach plus player willing to bust his butt usually there is a good outcome where both parties played a role...don't think it was all on Pollack alone...

[PoetTiger 1,899]

Let them decommit - I would hope they would reference the careers of Dee Liner, Brent Calloway, and to degree Reuben Foster. If the Bama machine reached them then so be it I just hope they know what they are getting themselves into....recruiting is about perception too...whatever Bama can do to undermine players from going to Au they will do it. I find it ironic that both changed their minds after camping at Bama. I would prefer they get off board now instead of pulling a Yeldon....I know this staff will get it done....and get it done the right way.

Indeed. And if I was a recruiter for AU out recruiting a kid in this state, one of my questions for him would be what is his favorite school, if he says bama, I'll shake his hand and tell him good luck. Because 9 times out of ten, they won't offer until we have offered and the kid commits to us. That's when the turds come knocking. It's not worth my time, i'd rather get talent from Georgia and Florida before I'd recruit this state full of gullible bama fans.

Sometimes kid fandom does not matter and this is a perfect example. Q did grow up an AU fan but his dad is a heavy Bama guy and is pushing Q there.

If that's the case, then there is no way my dad could influence me to go to that school. Sometimes as a parent all u can do in a situation like this is to just give him or her advice and step back and let them make their own decision.

Could be another Peaches situation lol....j/k

[LKEEL75 2,566]

Do we really need the 'decommits from AU' any longer? Seems as though he is just another recruit at this point.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

Let them decommit - I would hope they would reference the careers of Dee Liner, Brent Calloway, and to degree Reuben Foster. If the Bama machine reached them then so be it I just hope they know what they are getting themselves into....recruiting is about perception too...whatever Bama can do to undermine players from going to Au they will do it. I find it ironic that both changed their minds after camping at Bama. I would prefer they get off board now instead of pulling a Yeldon....I know this staff will get it done....and get it done the right way.

Indeed. And if I was a recruiter for AU out recruiting a kid in this state, one of my questions for him would be what is his favorite school, if he says bama, I'll shake his hand and tell him good luck. Because 9 times out of ten, they won't offer until we have offered and the kid commits to us. That's when the turds come knocking. It's not worth my time, i'd rather get talent from Georgia and Florida before I'd recruit this state full of gullible bama fans.

Sometimes kid fandom does not matter and this is a perfect example. Q did grow up an AU fan but his dad is a heavy Bama guy and is pushing Q there.

Maybe by decommitting Q relieved some pressure on him from his Dad and school mates. Maybe he will still sign with AU in Feb. We really don't know but will know once Signing day comes around. Getting pressure from your parents can be tremendous especially if they harp on you day in and out about things like this.

[imaolgatiger 523]

If his dad is that big of a nutcase(he doesn't want his son to make his own choice), then I would prefer he go hang out with Alice Evans in Turdtown. I hope we find someone else.

[ellitor 33,105]

This times 1000. There is no way in the world a 2 star full back out of high school has the production DP did and be a first round pick without being greatly developed by his position coach. Regardless of my own personal frustrations with Garner's recruiting losses I just lost all respect for Pollack.

Or Pollack worked really really really hard? Which just so happened to be his calling card as a player on the field as well?

A major part of college coaching is developing work ethic. Some guys just possess that themselves already. I think that its a bit comical to state that the only reason Pollack succeeded was because of coaching. His work ethic was through the roof.

I don't think he said anything close to "the only reason Pollack succeeded was because of coaching". He said Pollack is self-lionizing. He's crediting himself with 100% of his development, in spite of Coach Garner. That's crap. Garner put him in a position to succeed. They did it together. I think players deserve most of the credit, but when something happens over and over and over again, you can probably rest assured that the one commonality (Garner) has something to do with the result.

This times 1000.

E did say that coaching was necessary, but not that it was sufficient.

OT: does anyone else find it super easy to poke holes in someone's arguments by misrepresenting their position, then attacking the misrepresentation?

That's meta's main purpose for posting. That's why I have ignored and never read any of his replies to me. I aint got the blood pressure to deal with someone who only replies to debate me.

[doc4aday 1,887]

Who is Pollack?

[ellitor 33,105]

Who is Pollack?

SEC analyst and former bad azz DE at UGA.

[war eagle6 0]

Let them decommit - I would hope they would reference the careers of Dee Liner, Brent Calloway, and to degree Reuben Foster. If the Bama machine reached them then so be it I just hope they know what they are getting themselves into....recruiting is about perception too...whatever Bama can do to undermine players from going to Au they will do it. I find it ironic that both changed their minds after camping at Bama. I would prefer they get off board now instead of pulling a Yeldon....I know this staff will get it done....and get it done the right way.

Indeed. And if I was a recruiter for AU out recruiting a kid in this state, one of my questions for him would be what is his favorite school, if he says bama, I'll shake his hand and tell him good luck. Because 9 times out of ten, they won't offer until we have offered and the kid commits to us. That's when the turds come knocking. It's not worth my time, i'd rather get talent from Georgia and Florida before I'd recruit this state full of gullible bama fans.

Sometimes kid fandom does not matter and this is a perfect example. Q did grow up an AU fan but his dad is a heavy Bama guy and is pushing Q there.

If that's the case, then there is no way my dad could influence me to go to that school. Sometimes as a parent all u can do in a situation like this is to just give him or her advice and step back and let them make their own decision.

Could be another Peaches situation lol....j/k

Looks that way

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

Article on uat's 247 has his top three. In the comment section the uat fans are calling him a Dee Liner clone. Hope you enjoy the process Mr. Williams.

[Randman5000 4,229]

Article on uat's 247 has his top three. In the comment section the uat fans are calling him a Dee Liner clone. Hope you enjoy the process Mr. Williams. :bananadance:/>

now that's funny

[mustache eagle 2,406]

Yes, is being compared to DL a compliment?

[metafour 4,969]

I don't think he said anything close to "the only reason Pollack succeeded was because of coaching".

That is exactly what he said, hence his ridiculous "there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD a 2-star" comment. He had to point out Pollack's status out of HS to imply that he never should have been successful, thus his success must have been the result of Garner.

Last time I checked no one on here has been coached by Garner, so how exactly are you going to disprove Pollack's opinion? So he's a liar because his opinion doesn't match what you want to hear? Better yet, why would he make up such an over-the-top lie? Because he's "self-lionizing"? Maybe, or maybe he's just telling his honest opinion. I don't have a glistening view on either guy, but I think its quite a bit sad to paint David Pollack in the worst possible light because you don't like what he has to say.

[ellitor 33,105]

I don't think he said anything close to "the only reason Pollack succeeded was because of coaching".

That is exactly what he said, hence his ridiculous "there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD a 2-star" comment.

Even though we disagree a lot, you don't usually whiff on your importation of my posts but you completely whiffed here. Nothing about that statement says nor implies that Garner's coaching was the only reason Pollack succeeded. It takes raw ability from a player & being developed by his coach. The No way in the world sentence should be read just as it was. There is no way DP could be what he was for UGA on his ability alone. It took being developed. It also means DP was not who he was because of development. His raw make up was just as important.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

His opinion is wrong because we see proof, over the course of very long time, to the contrary. That's how rational conversations generally go. If you say something contrary to the evidence, you'd better have more to back it up than "yah-hah".

And, again, you're mischaracterizing what E said. Saying "there is no way in the world a 2-star" succeeds without good coaching is not saying that the coaching is the only reason for his success. If you really believe those two statements are equivalent, you're terrible at logic games. (Or said another way, if you are good at logic games, you do not really believe those two statements are the same.)

What he's saying is, good coaching is necessary for a low-level prospect to meet or exceed all of his ability. That is flatly dissimilar from saying that good coaching is sufficient or the exclusive causative element in a low-level prospect meeting or exceeding all of his ability.

meta, you're wrong here. Sometimes, you just have to acknowledge that and save your bullets for another argument.

Edit: Apparently, E posted his response while I was typing my own.

[metafour 4,969]

Even though we disagree a lot, you don't usually whiff on your importation of my posts but you completely whiffed here. Nothing about that statement says nor implies that Garner's coaching was the only reason Pollack succeeded. It takes raw ability from a player & being developed by his coach. The No way in the world sentence should be read just as it was. There is no way DP could be what he was for UGA on his ability alone. It took being developed. It also means DP was not who he was because of development. His raw make up was just as important.

Did you ever think for a second that Pollack may have been misjudged out of HS and that his "2 star ranking" wasn't at all an indication of his actual ability? Your mistake is assuming that recruiting services are 100% accurate, which you yourself know isn't even close to being truth. For all you know Pollack may have been a Top 100 talent. Is his success reliant on coaching in that case?

[metafour 4,969]

His opinion is wrong because we see proof, over the course of very long time, to the contrary

Right, he got Marcus Stroud and Richard Seymour into the NFL!!

He's a decent coach who's made his living off recruiting. Most of the guys he "put into the NFL" were as such elite talents.

You know what part you guys fail to mention? The majority of his actual NFL talent was drafted about a DECADE ago. What happened since then? Fatty get lazy, or did he forget how to coach?

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Seymour (2001), Stroud (2001), Grant (2002), Sullivan (2003), Pollack (2005), and Ford (2013) ... all first rounders. I see three really highly recruited guys (the first three). One guy that was widely recruited by not a high school star (Sullivan). I guy no one wanted (Pollack), and one guy where Auburn was the only major offer (Ford).

He also coached Geno Atkins, a decently regarded high school DE, into a 4th round DT that routinely makes the Pro Bowl. Drafted in 2010. Or how about Jerius Wynn, a JUCO kid from GMC that struggled getting qualified. He was drafted (2009) and remains in the NFL. I'm sure Garner had nothing to do with his development either. Wynn's success probably had nothing to do with any coach he's had ever. It was fate and his desire. I'm sure.

I get it. You don't like be wrong about anything, but the fact of the matter is, Garner has coached seven defensive linemen drafted in the last five years and at least one in 4 of the last 5 drafts (1 first rounder - Ford 2013; one third rounder - Corvey Irvin 2009... another JUCO kid; 3 fourth rounders - Atkins 2010, Blackson 2014, and Wright 2014; 1 sixth rounder - Wynn 2009, and 1 seventh rounder - DeAngelo Tyson 2012). So, no, he didn't forget how to coach, and his results aren't "about a DECADE ago".

You don't like being wrong so you're trying to just swing out of the corner, but you're wrong on this one. There's no way to slice Garner's resume without it looking impressive.

[metafour 4,969]

How am I wrong? His latest draftees are all late-round guys apart from Dee Ford who you'd be hilariously wrong to credit to Garner. Ford's problem was injuries, his talent and elite athleticism were known back when freaking Terry Price was coaching. You know what happened? He stayed healthy his final year and played up to his ability. Actually, Ford's talent was apparent back when he came to our summer camp and was the best pass rusher in attendance and blew everyone away, he was in fact the last of Tuberville's unheralded star signees. DeAngelo Tyson from Top 50 national recruit to a 7th round pick, wow such development! Geno Atkins from 4th round pick to NFL Pro Bowl...that means that Garner actually couldn't even coach him up to his full ability as he got significantly better in the NFL. Geno Atkins ran a 4.75 at 293 pounds, someone ask Garner how he was ONLY a 4th round pick. Cool he got a bunch of top JUCO signees kicking around the NFL as late round picks. Scott Loeffler had Logan Thomas drafted in the 4th round too, whats your point?

Nothing I said was wrong. HIS first rounders are all from a decade+ ago.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

The third round is late? I must have missed when the NFL cut those last four rounds.

I think it's misguided to pretend like Gabe Wright didn't improve a great deal over his last two years or to pretend like Ford's only issue was health. He was a much more complete player his final season at Auburn than he ever appeared before that.

Just so I'm clear, if Garner helps a solid but not spectacular recruit turn into an All-SEC player that vaults into the top half of the NFL draft, he doesn't get any credit for that if the same player continues to improve, but he gets all the blame if a high-end recruit is a solid SEC player then gets drafted on the back end of the draft. He had nothing to do with the development of the former but everything to do with the lack of development of the latter. Got it.

I'm done with this conversation. You don't like Garner. You've staked out a position and dug in your heels no matter what anyone says. You misrepresented what E said and now you've apparently taken the position that anything less a first round draft pick is failure as a coach. Nothing I or anyone else say is going to move you off that spot.

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

You've staked out a position and dug in your heels no matter what anyone says.

I see that mcgufcm has met metafour...

[AUbritt 611]

Saying "there is no way in the world a 2-star" succeeds without good coaching is not saying that the coaching is the only reason for his success. If you really believe those two statements are equivalent, you're terrible at logic games. (Or said another way, if you are good at logic games, you do not really believe those two statements are the same.)

:laugh:

Best bit of the whole (remaining) thread.

[AU-24 3,103]

Saying "there is no way in the world a 2-star" succeeds without good coaching is not saying that the coaching is the only reason for his success. If you really believe those two statements are equivalent, you're terrible at logic games. (Or said another way, if you are good at logic games, you do not really believe those two statements are the same.)

:laugh:/> :laugh:/> :laugh:/>

Best bit of the whole (remaining) thread.

That was a good one!

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

What did I miss?